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Offline SeraTopic starter

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Re: Mark of the Prey | Mark of the Prey https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=58094.msg1185911#msg1185911
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2015, 05:04:00 am »
Yes, you can get rid of it using explosion. Shield bypass would not get anything from this shield. Antimatter damage is also not affected by this shield. This can be a more expensive in-element alternative to Momentums in Adrenastaves.

One more thing, this should also work with zero-attack creatures. Dune Scorpion and Deathstalkers can be a decent duo with Life. Voodoo Dolls and Shard of Focus would also strangely start moving and tackle the enemy, I guess.

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Re: Mark of the Prey | Mark of the Prey https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=58094.msg1185979#msg1185979
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2015, 05:25:20 pm »
The effect is calculated on every hit, that's how shields work :)
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Re: Mark of the Prey | Mark of the Prey https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=58094.msg1185983#msg1185983
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2015, 06:04:13 pm »
Yes, you can get rid of it using explosion. Shield bypass would not get anything from this shield. Antimatter damage is also not affected by this shield. This can be a more expensive in-element alternative to Momentums in Adrenastaves.

One more thing, this should also work with zero-attack creatures. Dune Scorpion and Deathstalkers can be a decent duo with Life. Voodoo Dolls and Shard of Focus would also strangely start moving and tackle the enemy, I guess.
Fluff counter argument: Zero attack creatures do not deal damage. Therefore there is nothing to increase.
Mechanical counter argument: This increases the damage not the attack(otherwise it would interfere with Adrenaline) so zero attack creatures(which do not attack normally) would have no damage to increase(N/A + 1 = N/A).
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Re: Mark of the Prey | Mark of the Prey https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=58094.msg1185999#msg1185999
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2015, 08:45:41 pm »
That card is awesome, great work!
I like how this buffs swarm creatures (go Queen, Pharaoh, Boneyard... and with this, just maybe Flooding).

OldTrees is right. Just take Spine Carapace and 1-attack-creatures. If they attacked, they would've a 75% chance of getting poisoned; and they never get poisoned this way.
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Re: Mark of the Prey | Mark of the Prey https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=58094.msg1186004#msg1186004
« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2015, 10:06:26 pm »
That card is awesome, great work!
I like how this buffs swarm creatures (go Queen, Pharaoh, Boneyard... and with this, just maybe Flooding).

OldTrees is right. Just take Spine Carapace and 1-attack-creatures. If they attacked, they would've a 75% chance of getting poisoned; and they never get poisoned this way.
Not a great example since Mark of the Prey does not act like DR.
A good example of 0 attack creatures not attacking is 0 attack creatures vs Procrastination. (They don't get delayed since they don't attack)
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Re: Mark of the Prey | Mark of the Prey https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=58094.msg1186033#msg1186033
« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2015, 03:30:43 am »
I love this card.

Like Chapuz said, it's balanced, useful, and thematically and mechanically suitable. This is a fantastic answer to Life's lack of shield control. Awesome work, Puff!

I assume it would override them, but thought I'd bring it up - how would this interact with immaterial shields, like Emerald, Reflective or Hope?

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Re: Mark of the Prey | Mark of the Prey https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=58094.msg1186034#msg1186034
« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2015, 03:32:32 am »
I assume it would override them, but thought I'd bring it up - how would this interact with immaterial shields, like Emerald, Reflective or Hope?

Well, I'd assume that this card would work mechanically as if the opponent just played a new shield, so it would most likely override.
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Re: Mark of the Prey | Mark of the Prey https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=58094.msg1186035#msg1186035
« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2015, 03:37:20 am »
That card is awesome, great work!
I like how this buffs swarm creatures (go Queen, Pharaoh, Boneyard... and with this, just maybe Flooding).

OldTrees is right. Just take Spine Carapace and 1-attack-creatures. If they attacked, they would've a 75% chance of getting poisoned; and they never get poisoned this way.
Not a great example since Mark of the Prey does not act like DR.
A good example of 0 attack creatures not attacking is 0 attack creatures vs Procrastination. (They don't get delayed since they don't attack)

It kinda is a -1DR.
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Offline OldTrees

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Re: Mark of the Prey | Mark of the Prey https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=58094.msg1186053#msg1186053
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2015, 10:06:58 am »
That card is awesome, great work!
I like how this buffs swarm creatures (go Queen, Pharaoh, Boneyard... and with this, just maybe Flooding).

OldTrees is right. Just take Spine Carapace and 1-attack-creatures. If they attacked, they would've a 75% chance of getting poisoned; and they never get poisoned this way.
Not a great example since Mark of the Prey does not act like DR.
A good example of 0 attack creatures not attacking is 0 attack creatures vs Procrastination. (They don't get delayed since they don't attack)

It kinda is a -1DR.
-1 DR would not block 0 attack creatures. That is the difference.
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Offline SeraTopic starter

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Re: Mark of the Prey | Mark of the Prey https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=58094.msg1186062#msg1186062
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2015, 02:05:52 pm »
Mark of the Prey is intended to work exactly like -1 DR, which is why it would increase the damage of Adrenaline per hit instead of recalculating the number of hits per attack.

I thought that it was proven that 0 attack creatures still do try to attack, or at least take a turn in damage calculation, evident when trying to Adrenaline a Voodoo Doll with Poison counters. 0 attack creatures not triggering Procrastination, Bonewall and the like is simply because the total is still 0. My assumption is that effects simply do not trigger if the damage done after DR calculation is 0, which is how you get 1 attack creatures not getting frozen by Ice Shield. The attack should still be present, just that the damage is 0 so the effect is canceled. But we can't say that the 1 attack creature stopped attacking and did not interact with the shield - it was still in the DR calculation step. It should also work the same for zero attack creatures interacting with negative DR - calculation first, effect assessment next. Though this is all speculation: We don't know how it actually works unless if someone looks into the code.


This should override immaterials because it's intended to be "played" over them instead of destroying them. But is this fair, or not?

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Re: Mark of the Prey | Mark of the Prey https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=58094.msg1186071#msg1186071
« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2015, 03:50:05 pm »
Mark of the Prey is intended to work exactly like -1 DR, which is why it would increase the damage of Adrenaline per hit instead of recalculating the number of hits per attack.

I thought that it was proven that 0 attack creatures still do try to attack, or at least take a turn in damage calculation, evident when trying to Adrenaline a Voodoo Doll with Poison counters. 0 attack creatures not triggering Procrastination, Bonewall and the like is simply because the total is still 0. My assumption is that effects simply do not trigger if the damage done after DR calculation is 0, which is how you get 1 attack creatures not getting frozen by Ice Shield. The attack should still be present, just that the damage is 0 so the effect is canceled. But we can't say that the 1 attack creature stopped attacking and did not interact with the shield - it was still in the DR calculation step. It should also work the same for zero attack creatures interacting with negative DR - calculation first, effect assessment next. Though this is all speculation: We don't know how it actually works unless if someone looks into the code.
Attacking and having a turn are separate. Poison(Infection) works when a creature has a turn not when it attacks. Adrenaline grants additional turns(5 turns for 0atk). A creature can attack on its turn if it wants to attack but attacking is not the total of the turn.

IIRC* DR works as follows:
Does the creature want to attack?
Is the creature blocked?
Damage is dealt.

That model explains both DR 0(Ex: Procrastination) and DR 1+(Ex: Solar Shield).

The card text currently reads as if it affects the third step(same interaction with adrenaline as desired).

*I did not personally read the code but discussed a lot with some forum peers that had. Xenocidius had a full Q&A thread devoted to questions about the code. It is a good read.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2015, 03:53:43 pm by OldTrees »
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Offline SeraTopic starter

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Re: Mark of the Prey | Mark of the Prey https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=58094.msg1186162#msg1186162
« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2015, 10:28:50 am »
I tried to find his post, sadly I have no idea where or how to look for it. This is the kind of effect I want the card to do:

It's 0 attack when Adrenaline calculates it, but it still attacks and increases damage per hit by 1. But this also affects -1 attack, so this is probably not calculated on the DR step.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2015, 10:31:05 am by Puff »

 

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