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Offline HyroenTopic starter

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Jester | Jester https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27265.msg346618#msg346618
« on: June 06, 2011, 12:17:30 am »
NAME:
Jester
ELEMENT:
Other
COST:
4
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
1|1
TEXT:
: Party Time!
Swap decks with the opponent.
NAME:
Jester
ELEMENT:
Other
COST:
3
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
1|1
TEXT:
: Party Time!
Swap decks with the opponent.
ART:
Could be you!
IDEA:
Hyroen
NOTES:


Straight forward. If there is any confusion about the , check HERE (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,27033.0.html).

Party Time! has no effect if a Sanctuary is in play by either player.

As a Seasonal Rare, Jester can only be found in few places and on 1 day of the year. On April 1st, 1 copy of Jester is included in each AI3 deck.
On this day a new False God also appears named April's Fish. In its deck Jesters (upgraded) appear.
The hypothetical card code JJJ will be used to represent Jester (upgraded).

APRIL'S FISH (2x deck, 3x Mark)
Code: [Select]
6rp 6rp 6rp 6rp 6rp 6rp JJJ JJJ JJJ JJJ JJJ JJJ 808 808 808 808 808 808 80k 80k 80k 80k 80k 80k 80j 80j 80j 80j 80j 80j
SERIES:
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ShiningSword

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Re: Jester | Jester https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27265.msg346643#msg346643
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2011, 01:25:19 am »
Seasonal rares idea = Cool.

''Party Time!'' mechanic = Switching your deck with your opponent is very likely a pain for coding.

Offline HyroenTopic starter

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Re: Jester | Jester https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27265.msg346686#msg346686
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2011, 04:36:35 am »
Yeah, hadn't thought about the difficulty of coding. It's been heard said by Zanzarino himself that anything is possible.

I might imagine that the community might not welcome a concept so invasive as affecting hands is still seen as taboo. I will now include in the notes that Party Time! cannot affect the deck of a player protected by Sanctuary, and thus if even one is in play by either player, 3 have been wasted.

Creating a strong deck around Jester might be harder than you think. The concept presented may actually be even a little UP.
I'll leave that for you guys to decide.

This one will be tricky. OldTrees, have at it.
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AngeDeMort

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Re: Jester | Jester https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27265.msg346720#msg346720
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2011, 07:05:16 am »
Yeah, hadn't thought about the difficulty of coding. It's been heard said by Zanzarino himself that anything is possible.

I might imagine that the community might not welcome a concept so invasive as affecting hands is still seen as taboo. I will now include in the notes that Party Time! cannot affect the deck of a player protected by Sanctuary, and thus if even one is in play by either player, 3 have been wasted.

Creating a strong deck around Jester might be harder than you think. The concept presented may actually be even a little UP.
I'll leave that for you guys to decide.
Whether or not it's difficult to code is based on what storage device is used for decks but unless Zanzarino used some crazy non conventional way of storing the decks then swapping them simply requires a blank temporary storage device and then moving one deck to the temporary storage, replacing one deck with the other, and then moving the deck in temp storage into the deck that wasn't replaced which is maybe only 10 lines of code.


I'd say it's OP due to this deck:
Sanctuary
Jester
Light pillars
Wait till you have both a jester and Sanctuary in hand then play jester wait a turn then use skill and then play Sanctuary, resulting in a permanent swap unless the opponent had pc in hand before the swap.

Offline OldTrees

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Re: Jester | Jester https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27265.msg346742#msg346742
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2011, 11:11:26 am »
Creating a strong deck around Jester might be harder than you think. The concept presented may actually be even a little UP.
I'll leave that for you guys to decide.

This one will be tricky. OldTrees, have at it.
Deck:
Towers
Novas
Precognition
Deflagrations
Jesters
Conclusion: The first activation of the Jester's ridiculously coded ability is a death knell for the other player.
"It is common sense to listen to the wisdom of the wise. The wise are marked by their readiness to listen to the wisdom of the fool."
"Nothing exists that cannot be countered." -OldTrees on indirect counters
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Offline HyroenTopic starter

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Re: Jester | Jester https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27265.msg347222#msg347222
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2011, 02:53:30 am »
I'd say it's OP due to this deck:
Sanctuary
Jester
Light pillars
Wait till you have both a jester and Sanctuary in hand then play jester wait a turn then use skill and then play Sanctuary, resulting in a permanent swap unless the opponent had pc in hand before the swap.
Any PC and the Jesters in what is now your deck may be used to retrieve your deck back.
Any Poison or OTK will finish a deck like that.

Deck:
Towers
Novas
Precognition
Deflagrations
Jesters
Conclusion: The first activation of the Jester's ridiculously coded ability is a death knell for the other player.
If you now have the deck with Jesters in them, you can switch them back. ^_^
What concerns me is a speed - :time deck which would switch when you have like 0 cards... Dilemma..
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Offline ZephyrPhantom

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Re: Jester | Jester https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27265.msg347226#msg347226
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2011, 03:08:50 am »
One lesson I learned the hard way - avoid making cards that are balanced only due to the existence of PC. I am unsure of whether a sanc deck runs PC 100% of the time , which means there is a good chance the "death knell" Oldtrees described would happen.

The ability is rather strong and perhaps a bit too hard to counter. The RNG is known to bottomdeck multiple key cards (including all your pillars sometimes), and if all the Jesters are bottomdecked except for one (the one you play), it would probably annoy the opponent a lot unless you decide to swap decks back - highly unlikely as you've probably planned for this (terrible RNG or not) and have Sanctuaries to prevent a reswap and Mindgate to continue using your deck. Another worry I have is that you could create a "Kamikaze" deck using this - make a deck with pillars of your mark.... and cards that aren't the same element as the pillars or your mark. Play Jester, and swap to leave your opponent with a dead deck, again causing frustration.

The card might be balanced, but it's the power of the ability that worries me.

Seasonal Rare is an interesting possibility that could see future Card Design use though.

Just my  2 :electrum  on the card.

Offline Nepycros

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Re: Jester | Jester https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27265.msg347236#msg347236
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2011, 03:21:06 am »
Put this in a 30-card heavy draw deck. I dare you. 1 card left, oops, swap decks. Your opponent will deck out almost instantly.

2 Jesters, 6 Hourglasses, 6 Precogs, and 2 Golden Nymphs, filling the rest with Pillars.
Perception is the source of misunderstanding.

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Offline OldTrees

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Re: Jester | Jester https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27265.msg347318#msg347318
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2011, 11:09:46 am »
In conclusion: I believe the ability to steal an entire deck (and replace it with mostly worthless cards) is too powerful an ability to be stated in the current quanta range.

Also this would not make a good rare because it would have a massive effect on the metagame and is made to be played in sets of 3 or 5 to draw them on your schedule. (rares should not be needed in multiples especially anything rarer than Nymphs)
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Offline HyroenTopic starter

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Re: Jester | Jester https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27265.msg347407#msg347407
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2011, 02:58:54 pm »
One lesson I learned the hard way - avoid making cards that are balanced only due to the existence of PC. I am unsure of whether a sanc deck runs PC 100% of the time , which means there is a good chance the "death knell" Oldtrees described would happen.

The ability is rather strong and perhaps a bit too hard to counter. The RNG is known to bottomdeck multiple key cards (including all your pillars sometimes), and if all the Jesters are bottomdecked except for one (the one you play), it would probably annoy the opponent a lot unless you decide to swap decks back - highly unlikely as you've probably planned for this (terrible RNG or not) and have Sanctuaries to prevent a reswap and Mindgate to continue using your deck. Another worry I have is that you could create a "Kamikaze" deck using this - make a deck with pillars of your mark.... and cards that aren't the same element as the pillars or your mark. Play Jester, and swap to leave your opponent with a dead deck, again causing frustration.

The card might be balanced, but it's the power of the ability that worries me.

Seasonal Rare is an interesting possibility that could see future Card Design use though.

Just my  2 :electrum  on the card.
Haha, thanks for the heads up Zblader, but just so you know, I've been making cards for quite a long time. I started off making cards and have been around here longer than people may know.

What I wanted to do was to equate the power level of one of these to a UG, but unfortunately, due to the ability for this to easily be played in a :time Time deck and deck people out, that's my only main concern. It still appears to need more balancing factors however. Maybe it should not be able to be prevented by Sanctuary and should be changed to the :entropy element.

Decisions decisions...
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