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Offline Drake_XIVTopic starter

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Myriad | Myriad https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45426.msg1025927#msg1025927
« on: December 27, 2012, 02:09:40 am »
NAME:
Myriad
ELEMENT:
Life
COST:
4 :life
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
0 | 2
TEXT:
Multiply: When a creature is played on your side, generate a copy of it and generate :life .  Drain :life every turn.
NAME:
Myriad
ELEMENT:
Life
COST:
4 :life
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
1 | 3
TEXT:
Multiply: When a creature is played on your side, generate a copy of it and generate :life .  Drain :life every turn.

ART:

IDEA:
Drake_XIV
NOTES:
Today is a great day to be alive!
Cast a watchful eye when celebrating with friends.



If there is no :life to drain, it dies.
Reacts to Firefly Queen, Pharaoh, Malignant Cell, Parallel Universe, Deja Vu, Boneyard and Mitosis.
Does not react to itself.
Does not stack.
SERIES:

« Last Edit: December 27, 2012, 02:20:02 am by Drake_XIV »

Offline Rutarete

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Re: Myriad | Myriad https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45426.msg1025929#msg1025929
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2012, 02:18:30 am »
Keeping an eye on this so I can remember to look for if it's been done before
It is the greatest mystery of all...
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[22:50] <Jyi> meaning gets lost in translation... even in the same language.
My Decks

Offline Pineapple

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Re: Myriad | Myriad https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45426.msg1025930#msg1025930
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2012, 02:19:58 am »
Um...You sure you have those costs right? I would think that it would be more expensive, rather than have a -1 :life cost per copy.

Offline Drake_XIVTopic starter

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Re: Myriad | Myriad https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45426.msg1025931#msg1025931
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2012, 02:20:42 am »
Um...You sure you have those costs right? I would think that it would be more expensive, rather than have a -1 :life cost per copy.

Are you accounting for the :life drain?

Offline Pineapple

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Re: Myriad | Myriad https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45426.msg1025933#msg1025933
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2012, 02:34:40 am »
Um...You sure you have those costs right? I would think that it would be more expensive, rather than have a -1 :life cost per copy.

Are you accounting for the :life drain?

Yeah, I don't think it's quite enough. Parallel Universe costs 7 :aether per creature copied, and although it does have synergy with buffs, it's still double the cost.

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Re: Myriad | Myriad https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45426.msg1025934#msg1025934
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2012, 02:39:24 am »
Um...You sure you have those costs right? I would think that it would be more expensive, rather than have a -1 :life cost per copy.

Are you accounting for the :life drain?

Yeah, I don't think it's quite enough. Parallel Universe costs 7 :aether per creature copied, and although it does have synergy with buffs, it's still double the cost.

Yeah.  So what if I dropped the quanta generation?  I had added that when considering Fractal Myriad?

Quote
[18:36] <@n00b> Drake, a question regarding your card. Does generating a copy of "it" make another Myriad or another creature (as in, playing Honey Charger with Myriad out generates another Honey Charger)

It generates a copy of the generated card.  The original form, so any buffs and changes are removed.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2012, 02:40:59 am by Drake_XIV »

Offline OldTrees

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Re: Myriad | Myriad https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45426.msg1025936#msg1025936
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2012, 02:55:05 am »
Um...You sure you have those costs right? I would think that it would be more expensive, rather than have a -1 :life cost per copy.

Are you accounting for the :life drain?
They offset the drain by playing creatures.

Example:
Myriad + Horned Frog + Fractal
Cost: 4 :life +2 :life +10 :aether + 12 :life + 3 cards
Generate: 7 :life
Actual Cost: 11 :life + 10 :aether + 3 cards ~= 26 :underworld
Result: 14 horned Frogs + 1 Myriad for the turn
Unit cost: ~= 26/14~=1.86

Horned Frog + Fractal
Cost: 2 :life +10 :aether + 12 :life + 2 cards
Actual Cost: 14 :life + 10 :aether + 2 cards ~= 29 :underworld
Result: 7 horned Frogs
Unit cost: ~= 29/7~=4.14

Notice how Myriad halved the unit cost after taking its cost into account. So yes the quanta generation must go. But is that enough?

Myriad + Horned Frog + Fractal
Cost: 4 :life +2 :life +10 :aether + 12 :life + 3 cards
Actual Cost: 18 :life + 10 :aether + 3 cards ~= 33 :underworld
Result: 14 horned Frogs + 1 Myriad for the turn
Unit cost: ~= 33/14~=2.36

Note that a single Myriad still decreases the unit cost by a lot.

Myriad x2 + Horned Frog + Fractal
Cost: 8 :life +2 :life +10 :aether + 8 :life + 4 cards
Actual Cost: 18 :life + 10 :aether + 4 cards ~= 35 :underworld
Result: 20 horned Frogs + 3 Myriads for the turn
Unit cost: ~= 35/20~=1.75

However when we look at multiple Myriads we can see that free triggered mitosis is ridiculously powerful.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2012, 03:11:02 am by OldTrees »
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Offline Drake_XIVTopic starter

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Re: Myriad | Myriad https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45426.msg1025941#msg1025941
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2012, 03:07:56 am »
Sorry, in regards to the last example, Myriads don't stack in terms of copying and :life generation.  Unless I'm misinterpreting it...

Offline OldTrees

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Re: Myriad | Myriad https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45426.msg1025943#msg1025943
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2012, 03:11:24 am »
Sorry, in regards to the last example, Myriads don't stack in terms of copying and :life generation.  Unless I'm misinterpreting it...
So in addition to a Myriad's copy not triggering Myriads, playing a creature only triggers one Myriad?
(No  :life generation was included in the last 3 examples.)
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Offline Pineapple

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Re: Myriad | Myriad https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45426.msg1025944#msg1025944
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2012, 03:14:26 am »
Hm...I was thinking of placing a limit on how many creatures you can play from your hand per turn (perhaps 2?) or some other limiting factor like "...and Silence yourself," but there's not enough room on the card, methinks. TT-TT

What about "Drain :life for each copy generated"? (I haven't done any calculations, but I think that it works in tandem with keeping "...and generate :life")
This means that each time a copy is generated, a counter for that Myriad will increase, and each turn it drains the number equal to the amount of counters.

What's the point of each individual Myriad draining quanta when you can only use 1? Isn't that a bit of an overkill in terms of balancing?

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Re: Myriad | Myriad https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45426.msg1025945#msg1025945
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2012, 03:17:36 am »
Sorry, in regards to the last example, Myriads don't stack in terms of copying and :life generation.  Unless I'm misinterpreting it...
So in addition to a Myriad's copy not triggering Myriads, playing a creature only triggers one Myriad?
(No  :life generation was included in the last 3 examples.)

Yes.

Hm...I was thinking of placing a limit on how many creatures you can play from your hand per turn (perhaps 2?) or some other limiting factor like "...and Silence yourself," but there's not enough room on the card, methinks. TT-TT

What about "Drain :life for each copy generated"? (I haven't done any calculations, but I think that it works in tandem with keeping "...and generate :life")
This means that each time a copy is generated, a counter for that Myriad will increase, and each turn it drains the number equal to the amount of counters.

What's the point of each individual Myriad draining quanta when you can only use 1? Isn't that a bit of an overkill in terms of balancing?

I'm going to avoid trying to limit and compounding on what it can do.

I may go with that [Drain per copy].  If I do, I may allow multiple Myriads being triggered...

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Re: Myriad | Myriad https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45426.msg1025956#msg1025956
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2012, 03:35:51 am »
The problem remains that it is too cheap per creature.

It costs 8 :air + 1 card to double dragons for 1 turn. (Although often as an OTK)
This doubles dragons but requires them all be played the same turn.

Basically you need to ensure that it is not strictly superior to any of:
Mitosis
Parallel Universe
Fractal
Skyblitz
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