Illusion | Illusion

[bucky1andonly]

NAME: Illusion ELEMENT: Entropy COST: 6 TYPE: Spell ATK|HP: none TEXT: All your creatures look identical to target creature but retain their original stats that only you can see.	NAME: Illusion ELEMENT: Entropy COST: 4 TYPE: Spell ATK|HP: none TEXT: All your creatures look identical to target creature but retain their original stats that only you can see.

ART: IDEA: bucky1andonly NOTES: mutation effects remove illusion, druid/elf or mutation or if pandemonium mutates SERIES:

[Manipul8r]

It seems generally less effective than a Cloak, I think it should be cheaper.  Unless you're packing buffs or your opponent is not paying attention, it's not going to do much.

Alternatively, you could have it apply random buffs after the Illusion takes effect.  Example:

"Creatures affected have a 50% chance of +0|+1, a 25% chance of +0|+2, and 10% chance of +0|+3."

[bucky1andonly]

if you are playing with buffs, you could easily target one of your weaker creatures to throw off your opponent.

and no buffs, since you could have a full field of creatures when you cast it.

this might be less effective than cloak, but it is a permanent effect since it is a spell, only being removed by a mutation effect.

[OldTrees]

This has little gameplay effect.

Assuming your opponent can see your creatures when you cast this card:
If you do not alter the creatures after you disguise them then no purpose has been served.
If you do alter them it cannot be with a spell (exception below) for playing the spell shows the card played and the creature slot targeted. Even pandamonium or chaos seed display a clue as to which effect triggered. (Mutation is an exception to this rule because it has a non identified variable effect)
If you do alter them it must be a variable effect. Otherwise the skill activating light will alert them to which skill you used and thus the effects.
This leaves 4 cards that can gain a benefit: Mutation, Fallen Elf, Fate Egg and Skeleton.
However in the notes mutation ends the effect leaving only Fate Egg or Skeleton as synergistic cards.

Suggestion: Make illusion part of a creature with another effect. This eliminates most of the clues.

[bucky1andonly]

Note - not all cards need be made for competitive purposes.

Would you not agree that this would be a fun card to play?  But it still can be a useful card.

If you do not alter the creatures after you disguise them then no purpose has been served.

even if you dont alter any of your creatures, you could play a bunch of creatures all at once then use illusion, how would your opponent memorize them then, even still, i personally know that people chat and play at the same time, no one seems to pay attention 100% of the time

If you do alter them it cannot be with a spell (exception below) for playing the spell shows the card played and the creature slot targeted. Even pandamonium or chaos seed display a clue as to which effect triggered. (Mutation is an exception to this rule because it has a non identified variable effect)
If you do alter them it must be a variable effect. Otherwise the skill activating light will alert them to which skill you used and thus the effects.

Who cares what you play on creatures, you know which creature is which exactly, but your opponent wont, so you could throw them off by playing a buff or w/e on a weak creature and they might question themselves about which creature was which.

This leaves 4 cards that can gain a benefit: Mutation, Fallen Elf, Fate Egg and Skeleton.
However in the notes mutation ends the effect leaving only Fate Egg or Skeleton as synergistic cards.

All creatures benefit, it hides what they really are, and since it is a spell card, the effect isnt continuous, so when you play more creatures, they are what they are and not under the effect of illusion.

[RavingRabbid]

This might cause an hell lot of desyncs.

[OldTrees]

Note - not all cards need be made for competitive purposes.

Would you not agree that this would be a fun card to play?  But it still can be a useful card.

[snip]

All creatures benefit, it hides what they really are, and since it is a spell card, the effect isnt continuous, so when you play more creatures, they are what they are and not under the effect of illusion.

With a card pool as small as EtG has we cannot afford non competitive or even worse "opponent-enabled" cards.

The idea of disguising creatures, if successful which this card is usually not due to subtle hints by the game, is a good idea if implemented in the best manner possible.

The major problem with this card is since the opponent gets a glance at the cards to be hidden, most of the information to be hidden has already been "stolen" by the opponent. The only exception to this is if you Cloak, play lots of creatures, Illusion. However that would force Illusion to only be used as a 2 card combo which greatly reduces its versatility to the point of being too situational.

This is why I suggest that the illusionary effect occur before a card is played like it would be for an illusionary creature.

[bucky1andonly]

if your opponent is lacking in memory, or was not paying attention to what creatures were in what EXACT creature spot, illusion conceals all your creatures true identities, and then youre left with guessing on which creature to use your cc.  and it really doesnt matter what hints the game might provide, not everyone knows and remembers every little detail.  you might remember one or two easily, but in pvp, after a few turns go by, you wont know for sure, 30sec-1min turns lol

[OldTrees]

if your opponent is lacking in memory, or was not paying attention to what creatures were in what EXACT creature spot, illusion conceals all your creatures true identities, and then youre left with guessing on which creature to use your cc.  and it really doesnt matter what hints the game might provide, not everyone knows and remembers every little detail.  you might remember one or two easily, but in pvp, after a few turns go by, you wont know for sure, 30sec-1min turns lol

People tend to ascribe their own abilities to others when they talk. Since I am ascribing the ability to see relevant information, cut out extraneous detail and memorize a subset of the data as a matter of habit you might want to assume that it is easily possible if not necessarily easy to do (although it is not hard and develops naturally as you gain experience in the game or related games).

Pray tell me why not reverse the order of Creature, Illusion to Illusion, Creature? This change would eliminate most of the problems and the few that remain would reward tactical play.
The simplest way is the illusionary creature suggestion. However you could make it a 2 turn permanent  like Sundial with a permanent effect for creatures played during the second turn.

[bucky1andonly]

You realize you are truly trying to sap all the fun out of the card right?  Do you like monotonous play?  And it is a spell because making it a permanent means it can be removed, and there are plenty of permanents as it is, and you would only ever need one out, but you would need more than one in the deck for the purpose of increased probability of drawing it.  As a spell, I could see more people using it, as a permanent, with not a fantastic ability, but a cool one, won't get used as much because it is easily removed.

People tend to ascribe their own abilities to others when they talk. Since I am ascribing the ability to see relevant information, cut out extraneous detail and memorize a subset of the data as a matter of habit you might want to assume that it is easily possible if not necessarily easy to do (although it is not hard and develops naturally as you gain experience in the game or related games).

Okay, that's you, that is not everyone.  People will have to start paying attention a bit more if they know their opponent might be using the card, good.

So there really isn't anything BAD about the card, nothing making it too good, or completely useless, you're more or less drawing straws making up reasons that really make no sense.  You've also not mentioned the cost of the card or wording or anything else, just the effect seems bad to you.  But from what I've gathered, you probably like to play rush decks since they tend to win more, and are fast.  Broaden your view for a bit, make sure to include a little fun in your decks, even though you have to grind and grind to make money, there is no reason not to include fun cards into the game of elements just because they are fun.  This is a game after all.

[OldTrees]

You realize you are truly trying to sap all the fun out of the card right?  Do you like monotonous play?  And it is a spell because making it a permanent means it can be removed, and there are plenty of permanents as it is, and you would only ever need one out, but you would need more than one in the deck for the purpose of increased probability of drawing it.  As a spell, I could see more people using it, as a permanent, with not a fantastic ability, but a cool one, won't get used as much because it is easily removed.

People tend to ascribe their own abilities to others when they talk. Since I am ascribing the ability to see relevant information, cut out extraneous detail and memorize a subset of the data as a matter of habit you might want to assume that it is easily possible if not necessarily easy to do (although it is not hard and develops naturally as you gain experience in the game or related games).

Okay, that's you, that is not everyone.  People will have to start paying attention a bit more if they know their opponent might be using the card, good.

So there really isn't anything BAD about the card, nothing making it too good, or completely useless, you're more or less drawing straws making up reasons that really make no sense.  You've also not mentioned the cost of the card or wording or anything else, just the effect seems bad to you.  But from what I've gathered, you probably like to play rush decks since they tend to win more, and are fast.  Broaden your view for a bit, make sure to include a little fun in your decks, even though you have to grind and grind to make money, there is no reason not to include fun cards into the game of elements just because they are fun.  This is a game after all.

Let me try to rephrase my comments sequence:
Currently it only has an effect if the opponent cannot identify the field when given an opportunity.
Currently it has the good idea of changing the appearance of creatures to add secrecy.
These two details means that it is an incomplete card as of now because it does not accomplish its goal against a quick opponent.

My two solutions for this problem have been:
Make illusion an ability of a creature. (you decided this is not worth considering.)
Change the mass illusion effect to predate the playing of the creatures it is meant to hide. (This idea you did not understand. Likely because of how I phrased it so I will outline it)

Turn 1:
Play Illusionary Veil. It has the number 1 on it.
End turn
Illusionary Veil decreases from 1 to 0.
Turn 2:
Activate Illusionary Veil's ability "All creatures played this turn look like target creature."
Play creatures (Note: Your opponent will still see the order of creatures played unless that is coded into the effect of Illusionary Veil. Since the Veil would be in play it is possible for it to affect the card playing animation if Zanz wishes.)
End Turn
Illusionary Veil is destroyed. Creatures remain illusioned.

To answer you hostile sounding questions:
I am trying to make your idea work even against people like me. That is adding fun not sapping it.
I hate monotonous play.
Yes as a permanent there will be a 1 turn vulnerability to Permanent Control. However as I better explained above the illusion is created by the permanent but does not need the permanent to sustain it.
Like Sundial it would be a permanent that is used like a spell.
One turn of vulnerability would not deter its usage.

If what I said doesn't make sense, perhaps you should read it again. I tend to know what I am talking about but I write as if the other person is also well informed.
I have not mentioned the cost of the card because a mechanic has to work before it can be evaluated. Once it works then the next step is identifying a balanced cost. I also tend to not comment on balance unless it is unbalanced or I suspect evidence of its balance would be useful to provide myself.

You jump to conclusions too fast. Here would have been a better series of intuitional jumps about my in game character:
I can evaluate the field quickly
A more complex field exaggerates my advantage (If I were playing only to win. Instead I prefer a fun deck that is moderately good at winning.)
A more complex field would be created by a rainbow stall deck not a rush deck.

[bucky1andonly]

I understood exactly what you meant by having the effect take place first.  I do not want creatures being played to be altered, that would make the card almost 100% useless, since it would still only be a one time use, and unless you played a lot of creatures, hiding only 1 or 2 is kind of silly.  Now using it on a field that has a lot of creatures is more effective, and can and WILL confuse people because not everyone has a photographic memory.

The cards effect and card type is exactly what I had in mind, to alter the creatures already in play.  That I am refusing to change, but if you have any actual issues on it being too powerful, or the costs don't seem proper, then I will listen, but your suggestion to change the card how you said makes it almost a completely different card.  And from your example, you make it into a 2 turn card, and for what the effect is, makes it worthless.