Ideas for Changing: Graboid

[acelink]

Just rambling thoughts about how to change a cards.  This is one of many cards I'll ramble on about.

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Graboid

By far the most used card in the Earth tree.  3 to cast and 1 to evolve into a 8/3 (10/4).   No other creatures compare to the damage per quanta.  It is what makes the Shrieker Rush so fast and effective.  (I believe too fast, even if it requires splashing time).

I suggest we slow it down a little.  Not by raising evolve cost or any other cost.  Have it go:
Graboid (burrowed) -> Shrieker (Burrowed) -> Shrieker (un-burrowed)
Damage: 2 (3)         ->             4 (5)            ->            8 (10)

Reasoning:
Compared to the other elements similar creatures, Graboid is by far one of the strongest.  It is untouchable before evolving and has a high chance of being played each turn (since it only requires 3 quanta to be played).  It's evolution is even able to withstand RoF and all bolts (excluding thunderbolt).
Abyssal Crawler:  4    6/6
Flesh Recluse:     3     6/3
Phase Recluse:    4  7/2
Elite Charger:      5  7/5 w/ Momentum
Werewolf:         2  + 1 : 6/6 one turn wait
Average Cost = 4  average damage 6

Damage Cumulative (using upgraded cards)
Name                 Turn One     Turn Two     Turn Three     Turn Four     Turn Five
Graboid *atm*         3                13                23                33               43
Phase/Charger         7                14                21                28               35
Abysal/Flesh            6                 12                18               24               30
Werewolf                  1                7                  13               19               25
Graboid *new*         3                 8                 18                28               38

The change doesn't hinder the shrieker rush.  It does slow down the damage a little but less susceptible to being control.
(another change I would make is make evolved Shriekers a 8/2 & 10/3)

Links:
Zanz's Card Usage                                 http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,4093.0.html
Ideas for Changing: Heal/SoD/SoG         http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,4476.0.html
Ideas for Changing: Bonds                     http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,4478.0.html

[yaladilae]

I cant freeze it in turn 2 =(

making it 10/3 is much better!
Or like you said, if we change it to 2 time quanta to evolve, it would balance out to be more inline with 4quata / 6 dmg

[acelink]

I cant freeze it in turn 2 =(

making it 10/3 is much better!
Or like you said, if we change it to 2 time quanta to evolve, it would balance out to be more inline with 4quata / 6 dmg

It doesn't freeze at turn 2 (unless I'm missing a detail) and I never said increase the cost (not in this thread at least).  2 time quanta is a bit harsh anyways. Zanz changed it to that at first and reverted back.

[midg3333]

I cant freeze it in turn 2 =(

making it 10/3 is much better!
Or like you said, if we change it to 2 time quanta to evolve, it would balance out to be more inline with 4quata / 6 dmg

It doesn't freeze at turn 2 (unless I'm missing a detail) and I never said increase the cost (not in this thread at least).  2 time quanta is a bit harsh anyways. Zanz changed it to that at first and reverted back.

what he's trying to say is that if it evolves burrowed, it leaves the opponent with no time to control it (with a freeze, in the example there). In a way, this makes it even more OP if it evolves burrowed.

[acelink]

I cant freeze it in turn 2 =(

making it 10/3 is much better!
Or like you said, if we change it to 2 time quanta to evolve, it would balance out to be more inline with 4quata / 6 dmg

It doesn't freeze at turn 2 (unless I'm missing a detail) and I never said increase the cost (not in this thread at least).  2 time quanta is a bit harsh anyways. Zanz changed it to that at first and reverted back.

what he's trying to say is that if it evolves burrowed, it leaves the opponent with no time to control it (with a freeze, in the example there). In a way, this makes it even more OP if it evolves burrowed.

I wouldn't be opposed to Graboid not being burrowed to counterbalance evolving into a burrowed shrieker.  I just am against how fast Graboids do damage atm.

[CelestrialDreamer]

looking at the cumulative table, yup graboid is 43 and phase recluse is 35
however, graboid involves 2 elements, but recluse involves 1 element only
having a difference of 8 damage in 5 turns is not OP IMO
Charger is more expensive when compared with phase/graboid, but it got momentum so it is okay

I myself play upped graboid deck, it kills in pvp. However, what make is so deadly is that graboid + earthquake can paralyse the enemy while punching him, not the 10damage for 4quanta.

Yaladilae's suggestion of getting its hp down to 3 is good, it is really hard to kill a shrieker on turn 2 unless u use lightning bolts

[Wisemage]

If you made any of these changes (especially the one zanz WAS going to do, 2 time quanta) i would isntantly sell my shrieker upped deck, it would be absolutely useless.

[acelink]

If you made any of these changes (especially the one zanz WAS going to do, 2 time quanta) i would isntantly sell my shrieker upped deck, it would be absolutely useless.

Delaying the full damage by 1 turn makes the deck entirely useless?  I really doubt that.  You lose 5 damage and gain the option of staying burrowed. 

10/3 option doesn't cripple the deck either...

looking at the cumulative table, yup graboid is 43 and phase recluse is 35
however, graboid involves 2 elements, but recluse involves 1 element only
having a difference of 8 damage in 5 turns is not OP IMO

Graboids can be played almost every turn from the start of the game (especially in upp'd play).  If you miss the turn 1 drop, it ensures you'll be able to play one turn 2&3 with only 2 pillars.

Phase Recluse has horrible stats compared.  7/2 + no option of self protection.  It requires 3 towers in the opening hand to be equivalent and even that gives little room to splash/cast/conserve. Compare that to graboid.

[Wisemage]

If you made any of these changes (especially the one zanz WAS going to do, 2 time quanta) i would isntantly sell my shrieker upped deck, it would be absolutely useless.

Delaying the full damage by 1 turn makes the deck entirely useless?  I really doubt that.  You lose 5 damage and gain the option of staying burrowed. 

10/3 option doesn't cripple the deck either...

looking at the cumulative table, yup graboid is 43 and phase recluse is 35
however, graboid involves 2 elements, but recluse involves 1 element only
having a difference of 8 damage in 5 turns is not OP IMO

Graboids can be played almost every turn from the start of the game (especially in upp'd play).  If you miss the turn 1 drop, it ensures you'll be able to play one turn 2&3 with only 2 pillars.

Phase Recluse has horrible stats compared.  7/2 + no option of self protection.  It requires 3 towers in the opening hand to be equivalent and even that gives little room to splash/cast/conserve. Compare that to graboid.

Needing 2 turns to evolve each grabiod cripples the deck (since only time quanta is mark)
And making it 10/3 makes it vulnerable to RoF which is one of the huge advantages of upgrading the graibod

[xdude]

This is indeed a good idea.

@Wisemage, when the shrieker would join the game burrowed you would be able to unburrow it next turn for free (just like you manually burrowed it).

[jmizzle7]

Morphing to a burrowed Shrieker makes the deck more resilient to removal, which is why most players don't morph their Graboids in PvP until they can overcome possible removal. With this change, the Grab/Shrieker deck would actually be faster against removal-heavy opponents than it previously was, because of the added benefit of burrow.

[ManOfManySpoons]

Agree with what's being said about Shriekers entering burrowed being a little unfair.  As things are now, an Oty on the field prevents a single Shrieker from evolving.  If I see that, I'll usually wait until I can play 5-6 Shriekers to play any of them, this way I only lose one and get to burrow the other four or five.  If they entered upon evolution, that would solve this problem for the rush deck and make less hesitation necessary in getting damage out.