HERO CARDS by Scaredgirl

[jmizzle7]

These Hero cards should be..

1. Possible to kill or counter
2. Impossible to kill or counter with only one card or ability.

These two are very important imo because it would be dumb if you could "kill" a cost 20 Hero card with for example Mutation. You should need to have a combination of cards, abilities or damage to take down a Hero.

So the question is, how can we achieve this?

I say we give all Heroes an ability called "Immunity", "Resistance", or something like that. This ability would make Heroes immune to some cards like Mutation and Rewind. This would of course make Heroes even more powerful so their abilities, cost and HP should be adjusted accordingly.

What do you think?

I agree. Otherwise they would be just your average expensive creature.

[Archeron]

I think adding new cards is a good idea, but adding such powerful cards is  very hard to balance.
Some people complain about sundials being too strong (but i guess they didn't have much experience with the fake gods).
I'd like a creature able to cure poison, and maybe adding this feature in druid randoms mutation.
I think the power of new cards should be in line of what we already have.

[Scaredgirl]

I think adding new cards is a good idea, but adding such powerful cards is  very hard to balance.

Who cares if balancing is hard? I say just give us Hero cards and lets see what happens. If they are too strong, just nerf them. If they are still too stong, nerf them again!

It's not like everyone is going to cry and quit the game because Heroes are too strong. But people WILL start to quit if we don't get any new content anytime soon.

Some people complain about sundials being too strong (but i guess they didn't have much experience with the fake gods).

People complain about Sundials being too strong because Sundials ARE too strong. Sundial is the #1 overpowered card at the moment and anyone who says otherwise is either an idiot or wants to keep pwning Gods with his/her OP rainbow deck.

[jmizzle7]

Yeah, Sundial is unnecessarily overpowered. Farming gods was actually a fun challenge before Sundial came out, and now it's almost an auto-win because of it.

[Archeron]

I think adding dual color pillar is the best way to add some variability in the way decks are construct.

[jmizzle7]

I think adding dual color pillar is the best way to add some variability in the way decks are construct.

You mean, like.... this??

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,601.0.html (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,601.0.html)

[Archeron]

yes

[Scaredgirl]

I think adding dual color pillar is the best way to add some variability in the way decks are construct.

We are going a bit off-topic here but I personally want more creatures/permanents/spells, not more pillars. I have no problem with how pillars work in this game. The reason why rainbow is so effective is cheap overpowered cards, not pillars.

Problem with these dual pillars is that they are too random. We should try to avoid luck element, not reinforce it. Instead of being random, dual pillars should produce one of each quantum but how would you balance them?

New endgame content and/or working PvP system is what this game needs the most.

[junkboy]

Ok I'm not really skilled at elements but maybe I can put up a few ideas for the hero abilities:

Bazuul-- Hell on Earth--All non-Fire creatures take one damage at the end of your turn. All creatures are unfrozen at the end of your turn.
The Chosen One-- Mass Healing (10 light)--heals all of your creatures for 5 hp and clears infections.
The Clockmaker-- I think his ability is good too.
Demon from the Depths-- The ability should have a 25% chance instead
The Joker-- Chaos Factor (20 random quanta)--gives a random bonus in health and attack to all of your creatures. (can only be used once)
Rocky-- Ground Smash (4 Earth)--All creatures take 1 damage and all of the enemy's burrowed creatures are killed.
Tree of Life-- Roots of Empathy--All of your creatures heal you for 5 hp at the end of every turn and all creatures are healed for 2 hp at the end of every turn.
Vampire Lord-- His ability is good
Zombie King-- His ability is good
The Machine-- His ability is good
Wyrm Queen-- Hurricane (10 air)--All creatures dive.
Immortal King-- His ability is good too

[Kumlekar]

junkboy, could you please address what the problems are with the orginally suggested abilities and why your suggestions are better?  From a flavor standpoint the idea of the bazuul unfreezing creatures is pretty cool.  From a gameplay standpoint, thats a hard counter, somthing that would disrupt game balance.  As for the chosen one, the ability is fine, but I don't see why it should be taken over scaredgirl's suggestion.  The fun of the joker is in the complete raondomness of the ability, though your suggestion would probably promote better play.  Tree of life would be way overpowered in that form.  As for the wyrm queen, I would direct you to previous discussion on this same thread. 

As for scaredgirl's post, thats exactly the criteria I have been attempting to apply to these.  I don't fully know what would be appropriate in terms of game balance, but the heros are a major investment.  We need effective soft counters, not hard counters.

[Tomsense76]

Wow that was a lot of crap to get through before hitting the meat and potatoes...
I might have missed something, but where did the idea that the heroes cards would be untargetable? If that were the case then part of Immortal King's abilities would be pretty moot, and all the cards would be overpowered.

As things stand, I do think the only ridiculously over-powered card is Immortal King....But...
If I understand the quest system for fighting this series of NPCs, then it would be understandable that by the time you were ready to take them on, you'd be able to custom make an upped deck to be specific to that deck. Immortal King wouldn't be able to target creatures that were burrowed, or immortal themselves. Ja?

I had mentioned this in the chat room a while back but...
There used to be a ccg for Highlander: The Gathering (Don't laugh at me!)
In this particular game, you had pre-game cards. Some cards would be persona cards which would give you special abilities, some cards would represent personas that you've beaten and taken their power via "The Quickening".

Maybe in addition to Hero cards, there could be pre-game cards. OR....
Instead of having an element mark, have the Hero Card be your element, complete with powers. (Definitely have to redo Immortal Kings ability) But for instance, Death's persona poisons every creature on the board that isn't death or darkness, but you are poisoned each turn as well. Darkness allows the transformation and control of enemy creatures, but takes double damage from Light cards.

Well....You get the idea...

Which reminds me. There has been a lot of outcry to be able to upgrade your mark as the False Gods have. Maybe that could be one of the pre-game abilities....

[junkboy]

Kumlekar, I was just putting up some suggestions for Scaredgirl and other people to maybe think about. I'm just putting out my thoughts and ideas in an attempt to spark some new ideas... Zanz does read this thread you know...