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Offline jmizzle7

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HERO CARDS by Scaredgirl https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=413.msg3891#msg3891
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2009, 10:09:50 pm »

Scaredgirl, I absolutely love how you effectively captured each element's bread and butter into one hero card. Well done. Although I'm not sure it's entirely PC to slap Obama's face on a hero card and call it the "Chosen One". ;)

Scaredgirl

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HERO CARDS by Scaredgirl https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=413.msg3892#msg3892
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2009, 10:09:50 pm »

Scaredgirl, I absolutely love how you effectively captured each element's bread and butter into one hero card. Well done. Although I'm not sure it's entirely PC to slap Obama's face on a hero card and call it the "Chosen One". ;)
Thanks. Yeah, I tried to think what each element was all about and design a Hero card based on that. I haven't done all of them because my initial ideas sucked and/or I didn't find a good picture. You should have seen the "Hawkman" card I had for Air element. That monstrosity went straight to trash can. :)

I actually found that Obama picture by mistake. I did a Google image search "The Chosen One" but didn't find anything good. Then I saw this picture and thought, why not? It's surprisingly close to what I was looking for :)

RoKetha

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HERO CARDS by Scaredgirl https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=413.msg3893#msg3893
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2009, 10:09:50 pm »

I honestly don't like this idea at all.

Most of these are literally unkillable without either Gravity Pull or 4 Thunderbolts. They would turn the game into a simple race to play the hero first.

Additionally, with these cards in play, it would be absolute suicide not to include Eternity in every deck in existence.

There's also a big imbalance within the cards themselves. Even though you did say that these aren't balanced, the fire hero is still completely inferior to the earth one, the darkness one is literally an automatic win if played early with a graveyard, and the clockmaker is far too weak compared to the others unless you can PU these in which case it's an auto-win like most of the rest. I'd like to see you try to balance a set of abilities that range from "kill everything your opponent has" to "do massive damage while slowly killing everything your opponent has" to "become invincible in three turns or so."

Adding super-powerful unique cards only enhances the luck aspect of the game and reduces the possible deck variety since you need to be able to counter them or you WILL lose.

wckz

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HERO CARDS by Scaredgirl https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=413.msg3894#msg3894
« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2009, 10:09:50 pm »

No, as they cost a whole lot, it just gives mono decks a chance against the monstrous rainbows :o

Scaredgirl

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HERO CARDS by Scaredgirl https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=413.msg3895#msg3895
« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2009, 10:09:50 pm »

Most of these are literally unkillable without either Gravity Pull or 4 Thunderbolts. They would turn the game into a simple race to play the hero first.
You know you don't have to kill them, right? These are just characters. All you need to do is kill your opponent and you will win.

Additionally, with these cards in play, it would be absolute suicide not to include Eternity in every deck in existence.
Are you sure your opponent has a Hero in his deck? Maybe he's playing some fast rainbow and doesn't even have a Hero. Can you directly even target a Hero or not? I don't know, maybe you can't?

There's also a big imbalance within the cards themselves. Even though you did say that these aren't balanced, the fire hero is still completely inferior to the earth one, the darkness one is literally an automatic win if played early with a graveyard, and the clockmaker is far too weak compared to the others
So after that highlighted part you STILL went and explained to me why they aren't balanced?

Reason for imbalance is that I spent a lot of time doing those card templates and once I got them ready, I was totally done with this project and I finished these cards as fast as I could. See those numbers? I basically pulled them out of my ass.

I think you are missing the big picture here. You are saying that having powerful cards would somehow be impossible to balance. That's not true. What if they cost 100 quantum to play, would they still be overpowered? I don't think so. What if they cost 25 quantum? Who knows. What if kept the cost where it is but made Hero's less powerful? What I'm trying to say is that there is always a balance. You just have to find it.

And these cards are not super invincible like you claim. That 20 quantum cost is not cheap. Sure in some situations they would be awesome, but in others they couldn't do anything, like non-targetable characters etc.

I'm looking at these cards now and I think the biggest problem balance wise is that most of these are very effective if your opponent has low HP characters. That would probably change the metagame so that everyone would play high HP or non-targetable characters. I didn't consider these things when I designed these cards. Mainly because this thread is about IDEAS. This thread is not about beta testing these cards and adding them to the game next week.

wckz

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HERO CARDS by Scaredgirl https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=413.msg3896#msg3896
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2009, 10:09:50 pm »

These aren't unbalanced, a gravity shield could neutralize them ;D

Offline Qwandri

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HERO CARDS by Scaredgirl https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=413.msg3897#msg3897
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2009, 10:09:50 pm »

gravity shield is my frenemy...
Strike that, reverse it.

Ragorak2

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HERO CARDS by Scaredgirl https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=413.msg3898#msg3898
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2009, 10:09:50 pm »

The basic idea is good, i like the pic for the light hero =P, but most of the abilitys would probably have to end up being scrapped.

HERO CARDS by Scaredgirl https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=413.msg3899#msg3899
« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2009, 10:09:50 pm »

You should have seen the "Hawkman" card I had for Air element. That monstrosity went straight to trash can. :)
Google "Garuda." That might be a bit better for image ideas. o-o

RoKetha

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HERO CARDS by Scaredgirl https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=413.msg3900#msg3900
« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2009, 10:09:50 pm »

Quote
You know you don't have to kill them, right? These are just characters. All you need to do is kill your opponent and you will win.
You do indeed have to kill them if you don't want your opponent to completely paralyze you, which most of these cards do.

Quote
Are you sure your opponent has a Hero in his deck? Maybe he's playing some fast rainbow and doesn't even have a Hero. Can you directly even target a Hero or not? I don't know, maybe you can't?
If you can't target a hero why even bother playing after the opponent gets out a card that automatically kills all your creatures and hits harder than dragons that you can do absolutely nothing about? And it wouldn't matter if you only saw a hero in 1/4 of all decks, because that's still 1/4 of all your matches being losses the instant your opponent plays a hero and you aren't prepared to stop it in two turns or so.

Quote
So after that highlighted part you STILL went and explained to me why they aren't balanced?
The point is not that these aren't balanced, the point is that I doubt anyone could go back and balance heroes on this scale. How do you balance a creature that automatically kills everything the opponent plays just by existing? Are you going to make it easily killable? Would it still be worth 20 quanta them? And after you make both those changes, is it still good enough to compare with all the others? Sticking unkillable super-duper-ubers with ****-you-up-totally spells into a young and already imbalanced card game with an already heavy amount of draw luck involved is just not going to benefit the gameplay. Adding more things that need to be countered when the game is already too specific with many of its counters isn't going to help the game's polish.

If there are going to be heroes, they should be slightly stronger than a normal card, not something that wins by itself. I actually thought the current set of upgrades are mostly good hero cards, a little weak if only one is allowed per deck, but those are considered standard now.

Quote
I think you are missing the big picture here. You are saying that having powerful cards would somehow be impossible to balance. That's not true. What if they cost 100 quantum to play, would they still be overpowered? I don't think so. What if they cost 25 quantum? Who knows. What if kept the cost where it is but made Hero's less powerful? What I'm trying to say is that there is always a balance. You just have to find it.
I just have to find it? No, you're the one who wants heroes, you go balance them. But I will say that putting a super-high cost on a super-powerful creature is just so much more likely to end in disaster and a favoring of luck, one way or the other, then putting a medium-high cost on a creature with slightly stronger than average abilities.

I laughed my ass off at the Chosen One's portrait but if these aren't really serious card suggestions (which you seem to suggest with your comment about spending lots of time designing the cards and no time considering their stats) you need to make that clear, and if they are the burden is yours to balance them.

HERO CARDS by Scaredgirl https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=413.msg3901#msg3901
« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2009, 10:09:50 pm »

...if these aren't really serious card suggestions (which you seem to suggest with your comment about spending lots of time designing the cards and no time considering their stats) you need to make that clear...
It actually was pretty clear. I gathered that from the OP.

Scaredgirl

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HERO CARDS by Scaredgirl https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=413.msg3902#msg3902
« Reply #23 on: December 15, 2009, 10:09:50 pm »

@Roketha

I really don't know what your deal is. You describe these card with words like..

"completely paralyze you"
"automatically kills all your creatures"
"can do absolutely nothing about"
"a creature that automatically kills everything"
"unkillable super-duper-ubers"
"something that wins by itself"

How can I reason with something like that?

Somehow you have gotten into your head that these Heroes would be unbeatable. Are you new to this game? I can see 10 different ways to counter each and every one of these Heroes, and you can't see even one?

For some reason you just don't understand that high cost would make these cards much less effective. Against a speed deck, match could be over before you even have a chance to play this "super-duper-uber" Hero. And it's not like you will win when you play a Hero card. If the opponent has a table full of Dragons, you will lose, Hero or not.

I think maybe you just lack vision and cannot see potential.

*Sigh*..
And when I say "you have to balance it", I'm not talking about YOU. I'm talking about the person who's doing the balancing. I'm not sure if you can say it like that in english but you sure can with my first language :)

 

blarg: