Four-Leaf Clover | Four-Leaf Clover (Lucky! Series)

[OldTrees]

I know the two conflict.


However, I was doing this to illustrate that the dilution rule is not 100% effective or correct.
You illustrated that I did not communicate the formula correctly. I was using the specific application. My previous post should have explained how the concept would work even for conflicting cases

It also shows that the lack of reliability on either one effect should be considered.
Indeed but only in cases that result directly from that lack of reliability. Not planning a  / deck when using the unupped for instance. In the upgraded case the skill is only useful of the first 1-2 rustlers so it can be ignored for another reason.

Plus, already, not all cards are equal strength.
True but most cards are at the same cost/benefit ratio. Which is what I try to judge by.

Even if the rustler w/ adrenaline effect is more valuable than your formula's suggest, that doesn't make it OP.


So, please answer this. Regardless of whether or not it fits with the formulas you have used so far, do you think that this card would be OP?

For your final question. I define OP as 1.0 quanta in value above the standard. As such Adrenal Rustler would not necessarily eclipse that but would be close enough to try to fix it.

Do I think it would be OP on the magnitude of Graboid? No.

[doublecross]

So, you think it would be less powerful than other cards currently in the game, that have survived the test of time?



I think we should draw a distinction between "more powerful than the average card"

and

"overpowered"

[OldTrees]

So, you think it would be less powerful than other cards currently in the game, that have survived the test of time?



I think we should draw a distinction between "more powerful than the average card"

and

"overpowered"

I hail from games where the terminology was different as such I use this spectrum:
game breaking, broken, under powered, balanced, over powered, broken, game breaking

A 1 spell for 5 damage unupped to any target would be over powered in my opinion.
A 1 spell for 15 damage unupped to any target would be broken in my opinion.
A 1 spell for 45 damage unupped to any target would be game breaking in my opinion.

Card designers should aim for the narrow window of balanced.

[doublecross]

I don't see how an extremely weak card would be "game breaking". What would happen is that it wouldn't be used.



Let me try my question again. Based on this spectrum that you just enumerated,
would the adrenaline-rustler effect be "broken" or "game-breaking", or just above average in strength?


Personally, I think it would still be weaker than other life cards, and would not at all destabilize the game, or force changes in strategy.

[ZephyrPhantom]

It seems we have a debate going on with this and Metronome. I'll once again call on the magical balancing formula.

Spell Cost is judged in relation to other cards.
Rustler is worth 1  , however dive is variable.  Since it is uncontrolable in relation to what gets dived, I give the ability 1.5 value (A controlled dive is worth around 3 quanta by itself IMHO).
Average value is 1.25.
Final Cost : 1 

Permanent Cost:
Type : Standard Permanent, + 3
Ability Threat : + 3 , ability is now priced at 2.5.
Upgrade Bonus: -1/-2
Final Cost : 5  / 4


This card seems balanced.

[Werdbooty]

I agree except for one small consideration, which is that I do not think that dilution calculations should work like that.


Say there was a card that would either do momentum or gravity pull (50% chance of each).

You can see that this card would be less valuable than the average of the two values.


The fact that you cannot rely one either effect could very well make it cheaper.

We'll get to Weighted Coin
Four Leaf Clover: I don't like the idea of summoning an Adrenal'd Rustler. It does not appeal to the rest of the series...offhand, I'd say this card is balanced as is. Intuitive thinking here, but: perhaps a Leaf Dragon instead? As for effect #2 (the secondary attack), rather than looking at it as a dive, I saw it as a watered down Epinephrine (upped cost=3 ). On Four Leaf Clover, that Epinephrine can be further softened like so: -1 to cost as you either might not have a creature out when played or have no control over what is Adrenal'd & -1 to cost as there is only a 50% chance of getting the Epinephrine. Toss in the fact that the Epi is one-turn-only and I'd say it's fair.