Elements the Game Forum - Free Online Fantasy Card Game

Elements the Game => Card Ideas and Art => Topic started by: ZephyrPhantom on January 27, 2011, 06:28:42 pm

Title: Fierqua Golem | Fierqua Golem
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on January 27, 2011, 06:28:42 pm

(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd136383/elements_FQG6.png)	(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd135502/elements_FQGE5.png)
NAME: Fierqua Golem ELEMENT: Fire or Water COST: 5  :fire or  :water TYPE: Creature ATK|HP: 5 | 3 TEXT: Abosorption : Gains +1 | +1 and generates  :fire  :water while frozen. Attacks while frozen but damage is halved.	NAME: Fierqua Golem ELEMENT: Fire or Water COST: 7  :fire or  :water TYPE: Creature ATK|HP: 5 | 3 TEXT: Abosorption : Gains +2 | +2 and generates  :fire  :fire :water :water while frozen. Attacks while frozen but damage is halved.

ART: Zanzarino (Original), Also special thanks to QuantumT for "Ice" edit. IDEA: Zblader NOTES: The water armor absorbs ice(growth) and the fire energy desfrosts it (quanta generation).  Both effects only trigger while frozen.   Synenergizes well with Arctic Squid.  Absorption is active. Havled attack rounds down. SERIES: Duality Series : http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,19516.0.html

Dominant Element:    :water (if this card needs to be categorized, place it under Water)

(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd131926/elements_FQG4.png)	(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd131925/elements_FQGE4.png)
NAME: Fierqua Golem ELEMENT: Fire or Water COST: 7  :fire or  :water TYPE: Creature ATK|HP: 5 | 3 TEXT: Abosorption : Gains +1 | +1 and generates  :fire  :water while frozen.	NAME: Fierqua Golem ELEMENT: Fire or Water COST: 7  :fire or  :water TYPE: Creature ATK|HP: 5 | 3 TEXT: Abosorption : Gains +2 | +2 and generates  :fire  :fire :water :water while frozen.

ART: Zanzarino (Original), Also special thanks to QuantumT for "Ice" edit. IDEA: Zblader NOTES: The water armor absorbs ice(growth) and the fire energy desfrosts it (quanta generation).  Both effects only trigger while frozen.   Synenergizes well with Arctic Squid.  Absorption is active. SERIES: Duality Series : http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,19516.0.html

Title: Re: Fierqua Golem | Fierqua Golem
Post by: doublecross on January 27, 2011, 06:43:34 pm

To be clear, both effects are only while frozen?

Title: Re: Fierqua Golem | Fierqua Golem
Post by: joebob777 on January 27, 2011, 09:28:13 pm

yes they do says in notes, but do tthey trigger every turn

Title: Re: Fierqua Golem | Fierqua Golem
Post by: wizelsnarf on January 27, 2011, 10:55:05 pm

Not a fan. It doesn't make sense thematically. These two things could never be joined at the hip.

It is like having siamese twins where one is Asian and the other is African....

Title: Re: Fierqua Golem | Fierqua Golem
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on January 28, 2011, 09:11:52 pm

Quote from: wizelsnarf on January 27, 2011, 10:55:05 pm

Not a fan. It doesn't make sense thematically. These two things could never be joined at the hip.

It is like having siamese twins where one is Asian and the other is African....

Sorry about that. Card art updated.

Title: Re: Fierqua Golem | Fierqua Golem
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on January 31, 2011, 03:01:24 pm

Bump for additional feedback before I submit this card to the Crucible.

Title: Re: Fierqua Golem | Fierqua Golem
Post by: Pineapple on January 31, 2011, 03:08:13 pm

hm...personally, I suggest decreasing the cost. JW, is "absorption" passive or active?

Title: Re: Fierqua Golem | Fierqua Golem
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on January 31, 2011, 03:28:03 pm

Quote from: patchx94 on January 31, 2011, 03:08:13 pm

hm...personally, I suggest decreasing the cost. JW, is "absorption" passive or active?

The skill is active.

Title: Re: Fierqua Golem | Fierqua Golem
Post by: YoYoBro on January 31, 2011, 06:09:38 pm

Wouldn't generating :fire while frozen melt down the ice and free the creature?

Title: Re: Fierqua Golem | Fierqua Golem
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on January 31, 2011, 06:40:06 pm

Quote from: YoYoBro on January 31, 2011, 06:09:38 pm

Wouldn't generating :fire while frozen melt down the ice and free the creature?

Well, it's only half-fire, so it takes time for it to fully melt the ice, with excess heat and water coming from the melting golem.  The water half tries to absorb as much water as it can (stat boost), but can't absorb it all (excess quanta).

Quote from: patchx94 on January 31, 2011, 03:08:13 pm

hm...personally, I suggest decreasing the cost.

As for lower cost, I think that the high cost is justifiable considering how cheap Freeze it as well as how well this card works with Arctic Squid.  Also keep in mind that Duality Cards can potentially draw from 2 pools of quanta rather than 1.

Title: Re: Fierqua Golem | Fierqua Golem
Post by: Pineapple on January 31, 2011, 07:14:37 pm

Being able to use two quanta sources ≠ using less quanta.

Normal pillar generates 1 quanta per the intended elements, each turn from that single pillar would be worth 1 per cost.
Quantum pillar generates 0.25 quanta per the two intended elements, this turn from that single pillar would be worth .5 per cost.

Freeze + this is a two card combo. Two card combos can insta-kill. As an attacker, it fails. As a quanta producer, it fails. This cannot attack and generate quanta at the same time, therefore it also doesn't even have a "I can do both so being nerfed in those two areas is justified" bonus.

Scenario:
Play fierqua golem. -7 quanta.
Freeze it. turn 1. +2 quanta.
Turn 2. +2 quanta.
Turn 3. +2 quanta.
Turn 4.
Net quanta: -1. Resulting creature: 8|6. Cards: 2. Turns: 4. Damage: 8.
Also note that you need 7 quanta at the very beginning to play the damn thing.

Compare it to:
Play spark.
Play plate armor. -1 quanta. Turn 1.
Turn 2.
Turn 3.
Turn 4.
Net quanta: -1. Resulting creature: 3|3. Cards: 2 Turns: 3. Damage: 12.

Upped:
Play fierqua golem. -7 quanta.
Congeal it. turn 1. +4 quanta.
Turn 2. +4 quanta.
Turn 3. +4 quanta.
Turn 4. +4 quanta.
Turn 5.
Net quanta: +9. Resulting creature: 13|11. Cards: 2. Turns: 5. Damage: 13.

Compare it to:
Play brimstone eater. -1 quanta.
Fractal it. Play 1. -10 quanta. Turn 1. +2 quanta.
Play another one. -1 quanta. Turn 2. +3 quanta.
Play two more. -2 quanta. Turn 3. +5 quanta.
Play the last four 4 more. -4 quanta. Turn 4. +9 quanta.
Turn 5 +9 quanta.
Net quanta: +10. Resulting creature(s): 9 2|1's. Turns: 5. Damage: 28

--

Oh, and if you want OldTrees-esque formulas:

Ash Eater	2 = 2 attack -1 (fire bonus)
Fire Spirit	2 = 0 attack +2 (growing attack) -1 (fire bonus)
Lava Golem	5 = 5 attack +3 (scaling both) -1 (duo ability) -2 (fire bonus)
Crimson Dragon	10 = 12 attack -2 (fire bonus)
Phoenix	7 = 7 attack +2 (rebirth) -2 (fire bonus)
Firefly	3 = 3 attack +1 (quanta gen.) -1 (air bonus)
Fierqua Golem	4 = 5 attack +2 (scaling +1/+1) +2 (quanta gen.) -2 (cannot attack while scaling or generating quanta) -1 (double-card combo) -2 (fire bonus)

Note that air bonus is -1 cost because everything in air is super cheap and that fire bonus is free +X% attack bonus because everything in fire hits hard.

Title: Re: Fierqua Golem | Fierqua Golem
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on January 31, 2011, 07:56:02 pm

Ok, thanks for clarifying that. You note however that Fierqua Golem fails both at attacking and quanta production. I've been thinking - would it be a good idea to allow this card to attack while frozen instead of generating quanta?

The resulting formula:

Play fierqua golem. -7 quanta.
Freeze it. turn 1. +5 Damage
Turn 2. + 6 Damage
Turn 3. + 7 Damage
Turn 4. + 8 Damage
Net quanta: -7. Resulting creature: 8|6. Cards: 2. Turns: 4. Damage: 26.

Your Comparison:
Play spark.
Play plate armor. -1 quanta. Turn 1.
Turn 2.
Turn 3.
Turn 4.
Net quanta: -1. Resulting creature: 3|3. Cards: 2 Turns: 3. Damage: 12.

Play fierqua golem. -7 quanta.
Congeal it. turn 1.  + 5 damage
Turn 2. + 7 damage
Turn 3. + 9 damage
Turn 4.  +11 damage
Turn 5. + 13 Damage
Net quanta: -7 Resulting creature: 13|11. Cards: 2. Turns: 5. Damage: 45.

Your Comparison:
Play brimstone eater. -1 quanta.
Fractal it. Play 1. -10 quanta. Turn 1. +2 quanta.
Play another one. -1 quanta. Turn 2. +3 quanta.
Play two more. -2 quanta. Turn 3. +5 quanta.
Play the last four 4 more. -4 quanta. Turn 4. +9 quanta.
Turn 5 +9 quanta.
Net quanta: +10. Resulting creature(s): 9 2|1's. Turns: 5. Damage: 28
As you can see, your net quanta loss is greater, but you get overall more damage.

Title: Re: Fierqua Golem | Fierqua Golem
Post by: Pineapple on January 31, 2011, 09:07:18 pm

Attacks while frozen? Like, an anti-fahrenfix? That sounds...pretty interesting, actually.

according to the "is it OP/UP?" rules we've set, the unupped one is extremely UP. Phoenix+photon is 2 cards, costs 7 quanta, and deals 8 damage for 4 turns, making 32 damage.

Upped one is also slightly UP, as an ungrown lava destroyer and a deadly poison does 10 damage for 5 turns, making 50 damage.

However, these rules probably aren't very good, as we're disregarding HP/cc-ability, original quanta cost, etc.

--

I think that the unupped version should really gain +2/+2, or at the very least the upped one should gain +1/+1 and their costs should be reduced greatly. I kinda want to keep the quanta generation too, as a "hit harder if frozen" creature just seems...situational and plain.

btw,
fierqua golem || 4 = 5 attack + 2 (scaling both at +1/+1) -1 (double-card combo for scaling) -2 (fire bonus)
fierqua golem || 5 = 5 attack + 3 (scaling both at +2/+2) -1 (double-card combo for scaling) -2 (fire bonus)

Title: Re: Fierqua Golem | Fierqua Golem
Post by: Tea is good on January 31, 2011, 09:12:57 pm

You do know that Zanzarino would have to rewrite the entire code for cards if he wanted to make dual-cost cards right? I think he's said that he won't do that before. Look around or make a topic on it. (Don't get carried away with duality series, because it prolly won't happen) :/

Title: Re: Fierqua Golem | Fierqua Golem
Post by: Pineapple on January 31, 2011, 09:16:14 pm

Quote from: Tea is good on January 31, 2011, 09:12:57 pm

You do know that Zanzarino would have to rewrite the entire code for cards if he wanted to make dual-cost cards right? I think he's said that he won't do that before. Look around or make a topic on it. (Don't get carried away with duality series, because it prolly won't happen) :/

This issue has already been brought up to Zblader. In addition, the series thread would be a must better place to discuss this issue compared to the thread for an individual card.
EDIT: actually, this issue has already been addressed in the series page.

Quote from: OldTrees on January 15, 2011, 06:51:47 pm

Dual quanta aka 2A&B =AB are taboo by word of Zanz.
Hybrid quanta aka 2A/B =2A or AB or 2B still require code but are just a modification of the other code.

Talking about "hard-to-code", what exactly did zanz do to make fahrenheit's ability do negative damage when antimatter'd and not do damage when delayed/frozen?

Title: Re: Fierqua Golem | Fierqua Golem
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on February 02, 2011, 11:08:50 pm

Card updated:
Card can now attack while frozen but deals half damage. (Rounded down).

Title: Re: Fierqua Golem | Fierqua Golem
Post by: Pineapple on February 03, 2011, 06:24:01 am

...c'mon...at least bring the unupped one down to 5 :water / :fire

Title: Re: Fierqua Golem | Fierqua Golem
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on February 05, 2011, 02:39:12 am

Quote from: patchx94 on February 03, 2011, 06:24:01 am

...c'mon...at least bring the unupped one down to 5 :water / :fire

Ok then, cost lowered to 5 for the unupped. I need more feedback on the card please.