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Offline eljoemoTopic starter

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Carbon Warrier | Carbon Soldier https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55978.msg1158854#msg1158854
« on: October 06, 2014, 10:38:55 pm »
NAME:
Carbon Warrier
ELEMENT:
Earth
COST:
6 :earth
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
5 | 3
TEXT:
Damage dealt to this creature is reduced to 1. HP cannot be increased or healed.
NAME:
Carbon Soldier
ELEMENT:
Earth
COST:
6 :earth
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
5 | 4
TEXT:
Damage dealt to this creature is reduced to 1. HP cannot be increased or healed.

ART:

IDEA:
eljoemo
NOTES:
What is with me remaking my old ideas?!

I don't think this needs much explaining but here we go anyway. Buff cards give only the ATK benefit, i.e. Blessing becomes +3|+0. Rage Potion would become +5|-1 because it still deals damage. Purify still clears poison but doesn't heal. For example, this card could have +2 purify but not heal +2. However, infection would reduce the purify to +1 with still no healing.

Ability is passive.

Bumped the cost up to 6 for both unupped and upped, maybe more balanced now.

As usual, all questions and constructive criticism welcome.
SERIES:


Spoiler for Old Version:
NAME:
Carbon Warrier
ELEMENT:
Earth
COST:
5 :earth
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
5 | 3
TEXT:
Damage dealt to this creature is reduced to 1. HP cannot increased.
NAME:
Carbon Soldier
ELEMENT:
Earth
COST:
5 :earth
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
5 | 4
TEXT:
Damage dealt to this creature is reduced to 1. HP cannot increased.

ART:

IDEA:
eljoemo
NOTES:
What is with me remaking my old ideas?!

I don't think this needs much explaining but here we go anyway. Buff cards give only the ATK benefit, i.e. Blessing becomes +3|+0. Rage Potion would become +5|-1 because it still deals damage. Purify still clears poison but doesn't heal. For example, this card could have +2 purify but not heal +2. However, infection would reduce the purify to +1 with still no healing.

Ability is passive.

I'm on the fence about whether this is OP or not. 6 cost seems to much and 2/3 health seems to little. Halp?

As usual, all questions and constructive criticism welcome.
SERIES:

« Last Edit: October 13, 2014, 09:09:53 pm by eljoemo »
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Offline Captain Scibra

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Re: Carbon Warrier | Carbon Soldier https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55978.msg1158858#msg1158858
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2014, 10:55:50 pm »
While this is normally vulnerable to non-damage CC, I still feel that reducing all damage to 1 is OP.

EDIT: If anything, though, it needs +1 cost for the non-upgrade.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2014, 11:13:56 pm by Captain Scibra »
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Re: Carbon Warrier | Carbon Soldier https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55978.msg1158861#msg1158861
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2014, 11:09:56 pm »
dem warriers. Also, cannot increased.

It's a decent hitter, immune to gravy shield (which is a plus in an earth creature), while still being resistant to CC. You can also combo it with GP for some last ditch defense.
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Offline eljoemoTopic starter

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Re: Carbon Warrier | Carbon Soldier https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55978.msg1160233#msg1160233
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2014, 09:10:40 pm »
Increased the cost to 6 :earth for both and fixed the card description.
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Offline Ginyu

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Re: Carbon Warrier | Carbon Soldier https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55978.msg1160257#msg1160257
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2014, 10:36:14 pm »
The only way I can think of using them is with Rage Potion. Otherwise, they're outclassed by Hematite/Steel Golem (being 2 :earth cheaper, -1|+1 attack, and enough HP to be resistent to CC as well).
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Offline OdinVanguard

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Re: Carbon Warrier | Carbon Soldier https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55978.msg1160270#msg1160270
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2014, 12:42:50 am »
Only major use I see outside of rage pot is gravity pull... even then, its a niche case where you need an *** saver to stop a few massive heavy hitters.
Effectively, it guarantees you stop up to 3 to 4 creatures regardless of how hard they hit... of course, you'ld be better off with a bonewall at that point.

If there were a way to hit it with gravity pull without spending an extra card, it would be more worthwhile.
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Re: Carbon Warrier | Carbon Soldier https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55978.msg1160364#msg1160364
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2014, 03:04:28 pm »
The previous card cost was alright. This seems expensive now.

Also, you really mean warrier instead of warrior?
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Offline Treldon

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Re: Carbon Warrier | Carbon Soldier https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55978.msg1160376#msg1160376
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2014, 03:57:19 pm »
Just a small addition: I would exchange the names. Unupped should be Soldier, the common guy. But the Upped should be the Warrior, whose life is combat
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Offline Espithel

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Re: Carbon Warrier | Carbon Soldier https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55978.msg1160383#msg1160383
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2014, 04:31:01 pm »
Here's a really simple way of balancing something:
If something is good at offense, don't make it good at defense, and vice versa.
5 ATK for 6 is good/decent. Less so upped, but decent.

I would give it more HP but less attack.

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Re: Carbon Warrier | Carbon Soldier https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55978.msg1160396#msg1160396
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2014, 05:55:52 pm »
Here's a really simple way of balancing something:
If something is good at offense, don't make it good at defense, and vice versa.
5 ATK for 6 is good/decent. Less so upped, but decent.

I would give it more HP but less attack.
This philosophy of balancing is not necessarily applicable to all elements. Some elements will favor strictly defensive or strictly offensive creatures, some will favor both types but only as extremas (which you are suggesting), and some elements may instead favor multitasking creatures (ones which can do either reasonably well but excel at neither). Still others may prefer cards that can be shifted from one mode to another.

This is a core of elements game philosophy, each element embodies a different style or motif.

What works well in one element may not be suited to another.

This is also what makes card design for elements interesting and unique. Each of the 12 elements embodies a unique motiff, diversity in card design is strongly encouraged rather than uniformity... While uniformity is certainly easier to handle in terms of balancing and design elements chooses instead to aim for dynamic balancing.

I think a better way to approach design / balance is to think about what characterizes the element the card is being placed in.

In the case of earth, balancing is a little tricky. It seems to favor the philosophy of shifting / digging in. I.e. it has cards that start out relatively vulnerable and have a high offensive capability but that can be shifted to more defensive roles if needed. This is emphasized by its burrow mechanic and plate armor which can provide defense to a previously vulnerable creature.
Alternatively, earth can also go more the route of gravity's motif. Difficult to kill but relatively low attack to cost ratio. This is evident in stone dragon and hematite / steel golem.

With that in mind think on this:
Firstly, which of the thematic motifs would you like to embody? A creature that is vulnerable with High offensive value that can get "dug in" if threatened, or a creature that is relatively weak offensively but is very difficult to bring down relative to most other creatures of the same cost.
Next:
-If you are going for the digging in route, how can you make this creature adaptable? I.e. how can it "dig in" if threatened
-If you are going the stalwart brick wall route, ask: is this relatively balanced in terms of ATK vs Cost when compared to Stone Dragon and Hematite / steel golem... How about its "effective" toughness


From what I can tell it seems like you are actually geared more towards the tough but relatively low offence route. So we should balance relative to hematite / steel golem and stone dragon.
Since your current design hard locks HP at 3 / 4, balancing becomes relatively doable in terms of an "effective toughness"...

For effective toughness think of it this way: Assume an "average" CC damage... say 3, then figure out how many HP it would have by how much damage it would soak up if it didn't have the defensive skill protecting it.
In the case of 3 avg CC damage, the unupped version has an effective HP of 9.

So is a 5|9 for 6 :earth on par with hematite golem and stone dragon cost efficiency wise?
« Last Edit: October 14, 2014, 05:57:36 pm by OdinVanguard »
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Offline Espithel

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Re: Carbon Warrier | Carbon Soldier https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55978.msg1160400#msg1160400
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2014, 06:16:12 pm »
If something is decent in offense, it is not good-

I just shot myself in the foot there...

Yep. Go on. I yield there.
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