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Kael Hate

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Existing Card Reworking - Cockatrice / Elite Cockatrice https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2725.msg22709#msg22709
« on: February 01, 2010, 04:08:10 pm »
Existing Card Reworking Contest entry - Cockatrice / Elite Cockatrice

I like the idea for this Contest but care not to win it and am having no luck with Photoshop or the Pixlr editor. If you wish to do the image remake and you care for my idea, you may claim it as your entry in the competiton here. First to do the image remake may use the idea with my blessing as per the rule - "you can't copy/use/anything anyone else's idea without permission."

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,2672.0.html (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,2672.0.html)

*** Old Version ***
(Life)
Cockatrice   
Type: Creature
Summon Cost: 3  :life
Damage|Life: 4|4
 
(Life)
Elite Cockatrice   
Type: Creature
Summon Cost: 3  :life
Damage|Life: 5|5

*** New Version ***
(Life)
Cockatrice   
Type: Creature
Summon Cost: 4  :life
Damage|Life: 4|3
Active skill
4 :entropy :Petrify
Target Creature gains +0/+20 but cannot attack or use skills for D6 turns

(Life)
Elite Cockatrice   
Type: Creature
Summon Cost: 4  :life
Damage|Life: 5|4
4 :entropy :Petrify
Target Creature gains +0/+20 but cannot attack or use skills for D6 turns

*** Reasoning ***
Another Vanilla creature that actually has a renown ability in other mythology. Now that we have the Basilisk Blood and Petrify effect. Why not use it? I chose Entropy as the Activator element because it is the Element of changing powers. and also made the effect a random length so it did not surpass, Auburn Nymph or Arctic Squid that can use an in element activator but are weaker to creature elimination.

Edit: No one took up the idea, so not an entry.

bobcamel

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Re: Existing Card Reworking Contest entry - Cockatrice / Elite Cockatrice https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2725.msg22712#msg22712
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2010, 04:20:10 pm »
Just keep it Vanilla. Gee, what's the problem.

Also, that many entries is illegal you know

icybraker

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Re: Existing Card Reworking Contest entry - Cockatrice / Elite Cockatrice https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2725.msg22715#msg22715
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2010, 04:46:08 pm »
No card game is complete without vanilla creatures. EVERY trading card game has these creatures: Yu-Gi-Oh, MtG, even Pokemon to some extent. Giving every creature a skill will lead to confusion, not more interesting concepts.

Additionally, we need some Flavor Text to add to vanillas :D

Kael Hate

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Re: Existing Card Reworking Contest entry - Cockatrice / Elite Cockatrice https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2725.msg22716#msg22716
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2010, 04:56:25 pm »
No card game is complete without vanilla creatures. EVERY trading card game has these creatures: Yu-Gi-Oh, MtG, even Pokemon to some extent. Giving every creature a skill will lead to confusion, not more interesting concepts.

Additionally, we need some Flavor Text to add to vanillas :D
I beg to differ. Vanilla creatures become coasters.
The only reason a Vanilla creature see's play is if it has a more efficient power to cost ratio than that of another card enough to make it a contender to anything else within the environement. The other role of vanilla card stock is to pad out boosters so that card companies can make more money. In an environment were money, drafting, the randomness of boosters is not an issue there is extremely little need for Vanilla creatures. Both Death and Life have 2 Vanilla creatures (dragons are excluded because they have an exceptional Damage/Life rating) so upgrading one of these within each element to me would seem appropriate to actually have the cards see play.

icybraker

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Re: Existing Card Reworking Contest entry - Cockatrice / Elite Cockatrice https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2725.msg22727#msg22727
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2010, 05:10:44 pm »
Vanilla creatures are not "Coasters" of any sort. In fact, they find quite a lot of use in many decks as cheaper attackers. You mention that Dragons are vanilla creatures, and yet they find their place in a lot of decks thanks to their sheer power. Well, many of these very same decks use these Vanilla creatures as cheaper, faster attackers. Cockatrices and Horned Frogs find their place in Mono-Life Rush decks; Flesh Spiders are used in Death decks when Ivory Dragons just can't be played. I used solely Abominations in my very, very early mono-Entropy deck to pretty good results; many people can attest to the effectiveness of Phase Recluses and Abyss Crawlers as cheap, strong attackers.

Simply put, vanilla creatures form a cheap basis on which damage is based around.

bobcamel

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Re: Existing Card Reworking Contest entry - Cockatrice / Elite Cockatrice https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2725.msg22744#msg22744
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2010, 05:58:22 pm »
Exactly. The vanilla ice cream have the ability of having better stats than a same cost ability creature.

Flavor for everything isn't needed.

Kael Hate

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Re: Existing Card Reworking Contest entry - Cockatrice / Elite Cockatrice https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2725.msg22749#msg22749
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2010, 06:19:19 pm »
Vanilla creatures are not "Coasters" of any sort. In fact, they find quite a lot of use in many decks as cheaper attackers. You mention that Dragons are vanilla creatures, and yet they find their place in a lot of decks thanks to their sheer power. Well, many of these very same decks use these Vanilla creatures as cheaper, faster attackers. Cockatrices and Horned Frogs find their place in Mono-Life Rush decks; Flesh Spiders are used in Death decks when Ivory Dragons just can't be played. I used solely Abominations in my very, very early mono-Entropy deck to pretty good results; many people can attest to the effectiveness of Phase Recluses and Abyss Crawlers as cheap, strong attackers.

Simply put, vanilla creatures form a cheap basis on which damage is based around.
Guess we disagree on the effectiveness / enjoyment of Vanilla creatures and that Cockatrice is a target for an existing card reworking.

To me:
- Emerald Dragons and Horned Frogs are better power to cost.
- Cockatrice isn't needed in a Vanilla Nature
- The Mythos of the Cockatrice is its Petrifying Gaze
- The Life element could use a control effect, even if off element.
- Petrifying gaze could be that control effect.
- There is no loss to the game by removing the vanilla nature of a cockatrice



Edit: Fixed typo

icybraker

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Re: Existing Card Reworking Contest entry - Cockatrice / Elite Cockatrice https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2725.msg22755#msg22755
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2010, 06:27:21 pm »
Vanilla creatures are not "Coasters" of any sort. In fact, they find quite a lot of use in many decks as cheaper attackers. You mention that Dragons are vanilla creatures, and yet they find their place in a lot of decks thanks to their sheer power. Well, many of these very same decks use these Vanilla creatures as cheaper, faster attackers. Cockatrices and Horned Frogs find their place in Mono-Life Rush decks; Flesh Spiders are used in Death decks when Ivory Dragons just can't be played. I used solely Abominations in my very, very early mono-Entropy deck to pretty good results; many people can attest to the effectiveness of Phase Recluses and Abyss Crawlers as cheap, strong attackers.

Simply put, vanilla creatures form a cheap basis on which damage is based around.
Guess we disagree on the effectiveness / enjoyment of Vanilla creatures and that Cockatrice is a target for an existing card reworking.

To me:
- Emerald Dragons are Horned Frogs are better power to cost.
- Cockatrice isn't needed in a Vanilla Nature
- The Mythos of the Cockatrice is its Petrifying Gaze
- The Life element could use a control effect, even if off element.
- Petrifying gaze could be that control effect.
- There is no loss to the game by removing the vanilla nature of a cockatrice
Emerald Dragons are not Horned Frogs simply because Horned Frogs cost 2  :life and Emerald Dragons cost 10  :life.  This means that you can play Frogs faster, making them very useful in many speed decks. You're arguing that creature cards must fall into 1 of 2 categories:
1) They must have a high damage to cost ratio (Dwagunz).
2) They must have interesting and powerful skills.
Well, this basically negates the very CORE, the very BASIS of our card game. NORMAL cards. Creatures that are THERE, that attack, and that are done with it. These cards are the foundation of creature cards; neglecting them will cause chaos upon our game of Elements.

Yeah, I was surprised that Cockatrice couldn't Petrify either when I first saw it. ;) Oh well, nothing we can do about that.

Kael Hate

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Re: Existing Card Reworking Contest entry - Cockatrice / Elite Cockatrice https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2725.msg22757#msg22757
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2010, 06:32:17 pm »
Emerald Dragons are not Horned Frogs simply because....
er typo...

Yeah, I was surprised that Cockatrice couldn't Petrify either when I first saw it. ;) Oh well, nothing we can do about that.
Well we are reworking cards and having a competition to put forward the ideas. If there was a time to try something, why not now?

icybraker

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Re: Existing Card Reworking Contest entry - Cockatrice / Elite Cockatrice https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2725.msg22760#msg22760
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2010, 06:51:44 pm »
Emerald Dragons are not Horned Frogs simply because....
er typo...
I don't see a typo anywhere... :P

And your reworked Cockatrice is quite strange. Why is Entropy the element to Petrify? Petrify is a very strong ability that shouldn't cause any randomness or dice rollings.

YoYoBro

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Re: Existing Card Reworking Contest entry - Cockatrice / Elite Cockatrice https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2725.msg22762#msg22762
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2010, 06:55:50 pm »
I think it should cost like..  :earth :earth :earth?

icybraker

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Re: Existing Card Reworking Contest entry - Cockatrice / Elite Cockatrice https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2725.msg22763#msg22763
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2010, 06:58:47 pm »
Exactly. But we already have a Nymph that can do that, so we don't need another creature with that terribly epic abilitiy.

 

blarg: