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Offline ChemMan13Topic starter

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Emptiness | Expanding Emptiness https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=53754.msg1126059#msg1126059
« on: February 14, 2014, 12:23:24 am »
NAME:
Emptiness
ELEMENT:
Darkness
COST:
6 :darkness
TYPE:
Permanent
ATK|HP:

TEXT:
All instances of quanta use cost an additional quantum. One random card in the turn player's hand is destroyed.
NAME:
Expanding Emptiness
ELEMENT:
Darkness
COST:
5 :darkness
TYPE:
Permanent
ATK|HP:

TEXT:
All instances of quanta use cost an additional quantum. One random card in the turn player's hand is destroyed.

ART:

IDEA:
ChemMan13
NOTES:
-Second version of Field of Emptiness, original is in a spoiler
-Zero cost cards use no quanta, so no effect on these cards
- :rainbow quantum costs results in one more :rainbow quanta used
-Creates an effect similar to sanctuary except uses a  :darkness symbol
-Negated, when either player controls a sanctuary
-The card destruction effect happens immediately after the player ends there turn. In the case of a forced discard this effect activates second
-If destroyed, its effects last the remainder of that players turn
-Not stackable
SERIES:


Spoiler for Hidden:
NAME:
Field of Emptyness
ELEMENT:
Darkness
COST:
6 :darkness
TYPE:
Permanent
ATK|HP:

TEXT:
All instances of quanta use cost an additional quantum. Creatures enter play with -1 max HP.
NAME:
Arena of Emptyness
ELEMENT:
Darkness
COST:
5 :darkness
TYPE:
Permanent
ATK|HP:

TEXT:
All instances of quanta use cost an additional quantum. Creatures enter play with -1 max HP.

ART:

IDEA:
ChemMan13
NOTES:
-Denial type card that effects both players
-Zero cost cards use no quanta, so no effect on these cards
:rainbow quantum costs results in one more :rainbow quanta used
-Creates an effect similar to sanctuary except uses a  :darkness symbol
-Negated, when either player controls a sanctuary
-If destroyed, its effects last the remainder of that players turn
-Reduction in HP is for thematic reasons as well as aiding CC
-Not stackable (sorry but a card shouldn't cost 6 more quanta to play)
SERIES:

« Last Edit: February 15, 2014, 03:07:22 am by ChemMan13 »

Offline skyironsword

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Re: Field of Emptiness | Expanding Emptiness https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=53754.msg1126061#msg1126061
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2014, 12:27:44 am »
Why would this be negated by sanctuary?

Offline ChemMan13Topic starter

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Re: Field of Emptiness | Expanding Emptiness https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=53754.msg1126062#msg1126062
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2014, 12:58:41 am »
Sanctuaries are a place of refuge as well as being centers for religious and philosophical thought. Thematically emptiness is the opposite of this, plus sanctuary generally blocks harmful effects. Otherwise it just gives darkness one more reason to hate and even fear the light.

Offline skyironsword

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Re: Field of Emptiness | Expanding Emptiness https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=53754.msg1126065#msg1126065
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2014, 01:18:27 am »
Sanc might block this because of the hand effect, I suppose.

Offline Aves

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Re: Field of Emptiness | Expanding Emptiness https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=53754.msg1126068#msg1126068
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2014, 03:17:56 am »
Do creatures that have 1 hp normally instantly die or can they still be buffed? I'd assume they'd act like spark does, but it's not made clear. Also, what happens to spark?
About sanctuary, why would it affect both players instead of just the user?
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Re: Field of Emptiness | Expanding Emptiness https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=53754.msg1126072#msg1126072
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2014, 03:56:49 am »
Posting to follow, I like this one.
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Re: Field of Emptiness | Expanding Emptiness https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=53754.msg1126093#msg1126093
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2014, 12:17:57 pm »
sanctuary will not block this, by the current logic of the game:
sanctuary specifically states 'during your opponent's turn';
you use quanta during your own turn.

does this cause devourers to drain 2 quanta?
and black hole to drain up to 48 quanta?
The current text makes this possible, but I think it would be OP.

also, discord would probably do nothing special.
(although it technically drains before returning quanta).

EDIT: the title of the upped card and the name in the description do not match.
(emptyness and emptiness)
be quick- time is quanta.

Offline Higurashi

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Re: Field of Emptiness | Expanding Emptiness https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=53754.msg1126094#msg1126094
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2014, 01:36:55 pm »
Says "quanta use" and "cost", so cards just cost more. Has no effect on quanta denial. Expanding Emptiness is a way better name than "Arena of generic concept for each element here". It's ominous.
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Offline ChemMan13Topic starter

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Re: Emptiness | Expanding Emptiness https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=53754.msg1126173#msg1126173
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2014, 03:09:24 am »
Made some modifications to the card idea, swapped out the creature debuff for more hand control. I am thinking about making it absorb quantum per turn similar to flooding, any thoughts?

Offline Aves

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Re: Emptiness | Expanding Emptiness https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=53754.msg1126321#msg1126321
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2014, 05:11:23 am »
Outright card-in-hand destruction is a fair bit harder to balance, and has been controversial in the past.
 "Oh, that miracle/[insert key card here] you were about to use? Yeah, it's gone now. Sorry." -- The mechanic itself is either absolutely overpowered or underwhelming, depending on RNG.

As for an upkeep cost, I don't see why not.

This might sound a bit odd or redundant, but what do you want this card to do, both from a thematic and a strategic perspective?
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Offline ChemMan13Topic starter

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Re: Emptiness | Expanding Emptiness https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=53754.msg1126689#msg1126689
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2014, 10:53:33 pm »
I agree that it would cause a pain for decks that require specific cards for combos, but remember that this card effects the user too. Each time either player has a turn, they lose a card, so it is risky to use (unless you try to keep an empty hand anyway. Thematically, I wanted to create a denial card. My first thought was a sort of devourer-like effect that made it harder to play cards. I wanted to make it weaker than the devourer effect, because its effect doesn't compound over several turns, however it has an edge over decks that produce a variety of quanta to limit the effect of devourers because all cards cost one more quanta (and as such effectively sets all quanta pools at -1).
      The second mechanic to reduce HP of creatures entering play was an attempt at help CC and indirectly allow denial through better control. Idea came from the weakening of the human body when in space, (near zero-g environments cause bones and muscles to weaken) and the closest thing to emptiness is outer space.
      Since this HP reduction was not met with much enthusiasm, I tried again for a different a denial mechanic. Hand control is the next thing I thought of, and from there it sort of evolved into random cards leave your hand. If you think that the current proposed effect is too strong, what do you think of this: One random card slot of the turn player is discarded.
      Anyway, an upkeep cost ( :darkness quanta most likely, but could be any) will be added. What do you think about not having an explicit upkeep cost, but instead have this card randomly destroy one of your other permanents 30% of the time? (Each turn you have a 30% chance to lose a random permanent other than Emptiness)
     @ Aves (anyone really) Could you point me to past examples of hand control card ideas? I feel like looking at them and the response they got could help me in developing this card idea.

Offline Aves

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Re: Emptiness | Expanding Emptiness https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=53754.msg1126696#msg1126696
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2014, 01:31:28 am »
Mm, I don't think I recall any specific 'destroy card in hand' ideas specifically, if that's what you mean by hand control-- the only things I think of as 'hand control' would be things like ghost of the past, silence, nightmare, and ideas with those/similar mechanics. The reason I'm poking so much at your current/suggested mechanic is that the entire notion of "instantly destroy X," besides permanent control, is something that Elements as a whole has been very cautious about, which is why I say controversial and difficult to balance.

I don't think there was anything particularly wrong with your hp idea, it was actually quite interesting. I'm not a CIA expert, I admit-- you should probably get more opinions-- other places in the CIA board seem to be a good place to start, if you haven't already-- the idea guru, mechanics board, etc. Chat can be helpful too. If you get a bunch of ideas you could even set up a poll.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2014, 01:33:08 am by Aves »
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anything
blarg: