Elements 2.0

[Daxx]

Your idea about mono-cards is a horrible solution to the perceived "problem" of rainbow decks. If you were actually experienced in CCG design and you'd actually looked at how Elements is set up mechanics-wise, then you'd be aware that restricting players to mono-themed decks is not going to work out particularly well. There have been many better solutions than yours that have been proposed, which retain creativity in deckbuilding and provide more of an impetus to branch out into different areas of the potential metagame (this is to say nothing of the coding difficulties of your proposal, which makes me think you haven't actually thought about the implications of your ideas at all).

Another statement without any examples given but let me respond as best I'm able given your vague attempt to discredit this idea. First off never once did I propose restricting players to a mono-themed deck. I merely posed an idea that would give additional cards to players who chose to use monothemed decks that allowed diversity and variation that mono-decks currently lack. Also if you had bothered to read the thread I even stated that these cards probably wouldn't lose their intended purpose if the restriction on JUST these cards was lifted. So again, not able to get where you're coming from and you seem to be one of the few people who feel this way.

I am well aware that you're not quite proposing restricting players to mono-themed decks, but practically speaking if your new Ultra Rare cards are worth anything at all (or more specifically, worth dropping other element types for) they're necessarily pressing people into mono-decks because of the way the restrictions work. It may be unintended, but it's certainly a side effect of your proposal and an undeniable one if you don't intend for the suggestion to be a complete wash. And if you spent any time looking at the way Elements expresses its design philosophy, you'll know why that isn't the best route to go down - it's just not built to be played with mono-decks (I will explain below). Your method of and argument for encouraging people away from Rainbow decks is missing the point.

Granted you've suggested that you would be willing to remove those restrictions, and granted that would improve the suggestion immensely.

Finally, as to my experience as a game designer/coder I have shown in posts in this thread that I am fully capable of implementing these myself as are the people who have seen the source code for the game without any problems other than the time it would take to create multi-colored cards.

Really? I'm seeing chriskang above posting to say that it would be a lot more difficult than you'd originally assumed. If you are good enough to do it yourself, why not put your coding time where your mouth is? You're never going to convince Zanz to implement this suggestion as it stands (though to be fair I don't think Zanz really cares about the game at all any more), so maybe you should do it yourself if it's as easy and you have as much experience as you claim.

As for me not being experienced in TGC design and not looking at the mechanics of Elements can you give examples where I showed a neglect for understanding how the game works? I believe if you take each of the cards I suggested for any particular element you can see how I took what that monoelement already could do and built off it to add variety for each deck that is not currently present thus making many more combinations for monodecks rather than the couple successful monodecks for each color. I also stated that upon further review allowing these cards to be used by any deck further increases the diversity and complexity allowed by decks while forcing them to sacrifice just slightly in that these cards are built to be used in the monocolor and therefore have much more regular chemistry with cards in their element than when mixed.

Sure thing. Your primary suggestion which was different to all the other suggestions that have made before (and therefore is the only thing worth looking at in the thread - not that your card suggestions are necessarily any better or worse than others, they're just irrelevant) was founded upon the assumption that to reduce the prevalence of rainbow decks (an unfounded claim about the metagame which you've already admitted you're cut off from) we should be looking to promote mono-decks by providing powerful "restricted" cards to people playing mono-decks.

Elements is not a game that is designed to be played effectively with mono-decks, a fact I believe is made evident by aspects of the game's design. Firstly most elements are packed full of creatures whose abilities use other quantums - this is to encourage players to splash into other elements for more power. Secondly, the existence of the quantum pillar and nova, and creatures which generate off-element quantums, are signs that the game is designed to facilitate this splashing. Thirdly, all of the starting decks and most if not all of the Level 3 and 6 CPU decks are designed with more than one element in mind - this suggests that Zanz was intending that deck design should be based around multiple elements.

It's only on "further review" that you've acknowledged the problem with the restrictions, which makes me think that you just didn't consider the design philosophy of the game in your initial suggestion. Removing the restrictions would improve the suggestion, in my opinion, but only to the level of all the other suggestions for cards that have been proposed; frankly though as far as I can tell they don't rank any more highly than others I've seen.

I don't mind critique but posts like yours are just condescending with no facts or basis for such assumptions which makes it very difficult to address any valid concerns or points you may have which at this point I'm beginning to doubt you have any.

I don't mind suggestions, but those like yours are just wishful thinking with no substance or unique selling points over the mounds of other suggestions doing similar things, which makes it very difficult to address your ideas in terms of merit and at this point I'm beginning to doubt you have any.

I just love snark, don't you? 8)

[RockSoulx]

Daxx: MtG has cards just as you state that require one color mana to play and other color mana to activate abilities or cards that produce mana of a different color etc. Does that mean you can't do well in MtG with a monocolor deck? Perhaps rainbow was too specific a term. Notice I did title the post Elements 2.0 and state that these cards would redefine the structure of elements to allow for more diversity. Just because the original idea leans towards splashing into other elements doesn't mean you shouldn't have equal success choosing one element. This is something most game designers understand. That the original idea while great may be improved by building off and branching off. Again if this comes off arrogant or snarky it is only because your posts come off as condescending without basis and in general seem very narrowminded.

As to how hard these cards are to implement if your reading comprehension fails you you'd notice Chriskang only said dual colored cards would be hard to implement. None of the original cards posted had a dual color cost to play. And if they want to charge me with the implementation of these cards by doing the code I have no problems with that.

Again your condescending posts are filled with holes and incorrect information. So perhaps when you can step down off your high horse we can have an actual discussion about an idea which many have already stated is a good one.

[PuppyChow]

Lol @ us stepping down off the high horse. I think we all need to step off the high horses.

Anyway, you keep saying "they", implying developers. It's a single person. So yeah, we don't want him spending his time altering the game just to allow dual colored cards. And we don't think he wants another developer working on it yet; otherwise Chriskang would likely being helping.

[sillyking14]

 yes everyone needs to cool off, there is way too much flaming going on. nobody is responding intelligently or in a manner that promotes intelligent discussion.

back on topic

   first off, thank you rock its nice to be appreciated.however, my opinions are relatively useless since i know very little about ccg's. i have some experience with yu-gi-oh, and a little bit more experience with pokemon but i never committed much time to either so about all i know is how to play them. however, i think that your suggestion is mostly a good one. although having these cards be for mono-decks only would be a mistake, but since the point is to promote mono-duo decks, as opposed to rainbow decks it would be an equally bad idea to make them free game. perhaps have it be that these cards can only be used  in decks that contain say 10(rather arbitrary) cards of the same element (excluding pillars). or if 10 is to high then have it be 5. either way i think that this would help balance rocksoul's desire to promote mono decks over rainbow while still allowing people room to use these in duo and even perhaps tri color decks. i will post back later with my thoughts on specific cards.

[Dragoon]

Is it just me, or is it getting warm in here?

Haha, anyways . . . I like most of the cards.  Very interesting.  Elements is in desperate need for more cards.  And I like the idea of more cards with abilities and effects.  They add so much more than just plain vanilla creatures.  Especially if it adds more depth and balance to each individual elements while at the same time expanding their signature styles.

I think the Manifestation of Gravity is OP compared to the other Manifestations.  All you would need after getting your Manifestation out is a Flying Titan (8/70) and a Momentum for the Manifestation (0/35) if they have a Bone Wall/Phase Shield up.  A 2 turn kill for 36-37 Gravity and 3-4 Cards.

[Terroking]

especially the upped version, 120 unstoppable damage with just the 2 cards, +your other creatures would usually be instant win (assuming they don't have multiple shards, or manage to deal 50 damage to the manifestation (congeal, lo(l)bo(w), and RT would be problems, but if they have congeal, its speed poison and you're probably already screwed, lobo is not run frequently, and eternities are just targets for pulvy)

[Delreich]

With the original restriction, flying titan would be impossible. It might just be that some things need to change if the mono-only restriction goes.

[Terroking]

2 dragons then, also a 1-hit KO when upped

[Delreich]

2 dragons, 2 manifestation, 104 quanta, sundial-free board...
Fire bolts are way easier to 1hko with than that.

[Terroking]

why would you need 2 manifestation? 50+30+30=110

while 54 quanta is hard to get, its less than needed with bolts (though you will actually use it)

[the Sage]

If your little group was just local, then I can conclusively say the people's decks probably sucked. When I was a newbie to Elements, even being big on card games, my decks all sucked. Same with all other players. You can't post fliers in your town and expect to get people who have been playing this game for a long time among the community, or get people who will turn out to be amazing deck builders. My decks continued to suck, even after weeks of playing, until I started visiting the forums. Then my skill at deck building began to improve rapidly as I learned the finer points of Elements.

Although I agree largely with your points Puppy, I disagree with this one. I've been on the forums for a pretty short time (weeks), and when I came here I found to my surprise that my FG deck was pretty much already posted on here (SG's FG deck). I had never talked to other players, I had never visited the forum, I just tweaked my way into a rainbow deck, and wound up with pretty much that deck (on a side-note, this was with pre-adjestment sundials. Imagine my dismay when I found I could no longer win most FG matches).
Good PvM without the community is more likely than good PvP without the community of course, but that went well too (2nd place in my first tournament attempt).
You CAN be a good deck-builder without seeing it done by others.

[Kael Hate]

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