Elements 2.0

[RockSoulx]

As a long time player and someone who has enjoyed this game tremendously I finally decided to join the community. I only briefly looked over the more recent ideas so if this has been suggested before I apologize in advance. This is just my idea on a new interesting concept for the game and I am open to discussion and feed back. The title of Elements 2.0 is that this idea will most likely alter the game to be more in depth and hopefully allow more strategy and skill to determine the winner while reducing the luck of the draw effect. It is also an attempt to provide more avenues for creativity to flow so please discuss, critique, just please remain on topic.

I. Table of Contents
  II. Mono-Decks (Half done)
    III. Opposites Attract (Coming Soon)
      IV. End Game (Coming Soon)
         V. Summary (Coming Soon)

II. Mono-Decks

The superiority of the rainbow deck is undeniable. Able to pick an choose the best features of each color grants the player a much more versatile deck, and as in any collectable card game versatility translates to more wins. This benefit is normally offset by depending more on luck of the draw though with the card draw featured in most top tier rainbows this issue has been diminished quite a bit. I have spent some time studying each element and would like to add more depth to the "Does one thing really well" aspect of this game so that it is comparable to the power of the Rainbow deck. Without further ado:

These are new cards that have a unique restriction to them. All cards in this section fall under a new ability dubbed as: Elemental Specialization. To use any of these new cards your mark and your deck must consist of only the specified element. Each element has been given four cards which fall under the generic card rule (6 max in a deck, upgradeable version) and one 'ultra-rare' card of which only one copy can be used. And here we go, bear with me for this will be a lengthy post.

A. Entropy

Entropy, Chaos, Rainbow, for every rule there is an exception and preserving that spirit I present to you the new cards:

Card Name: Chaos Effect
Card Cost: 2 Entropy (1 Entropy)
Card Type: Permanent
Card Effect: Entropy quantums can be used to activate any abilities regardless of their quantum cost. (A Lycanthrope could be activated with 2 (upgraded 1) entropy quantum(s) instead of the usual darkness quantum costs.

Card Name: Chaotic Vortex
Card Cost: 6 Entropy (4 Entropy)
Card Type: Spell
Card Effect: The targetted creature is either drawn into a Chaotic Vortex and destroyed permanently or a Chaos Beast emerges from the portal and serves the owner of targetted creature.

Card Name: Chaos Beast
Card Cost: 15 Entropy (12 Entropy)
Card Type: Creature
Card Stats: */**
Card Effects: *Chaos Beast's power is equal to the number of different elemental quantums your opponent possess. (So if they play a nova/supernova he has 12 attack. ** Chaos Beast's HP is equal to 6 minus 1 for every Chaos Beast in play at the end of your turn. (Upgraded Version gains the mutate ability for 1 Entropy)

Card Name: Chaotic Rift
Card Cost: 5 Entropy (3)
Card Type: Spell
Card Effects: Destroys target creature to do one of the following at random: 1. Heals you for an amount equal to the destoyed creature's HP., 2. Damages your opponent equal to the destroyed creature's HP., 3. Splits creature into 4 MicroAbominations under the control of targetted creature's owner.

Ultra Rare Card name: Manifestation of Entropy
Card Cost: 17 (15)
Card Type: Manifestation: counts as a creature.
Card Effects: Produces 3 Entropy per turn.
Card Ability: 2 Entropy- Prismatic blast: Randomly Rearranges opponents Quantums. (Upgraded: 4 Entropy- Prismatic Blast: All non-Entropy creatures are hit with Chaos Seed.)
Card Stats: 0/25

B. Death

Death is an expert at just that, poisons, plagues, death and bones. The Death mono Deck is all about sacrifice.

Card Name: Altar of Death
Card Type: Permanent
Card Cost: 5 Death (4 Death)
Card Effect: 2 Death: Sacrifice a Creature to destroy target permanent.

Card Name: Death Pact
Card Type: Spell
Card Cost: 6 Death (5 Death)
Card Effect: You take 5 damage and your opponent takes 10 damage.

Card Name: Cultist of Demise
Card Type: Creature
Card Cost: 10 Death (8 Death)
Card Effects: Lose 2 HP and your opponent discards 1 card.
Card Stats: 2/3

Card Name: Corrupted Lifelines
Card Type: Permanent
Card Cost: 15 Death (12 Death)
Card Effects: Healing is converted to poison.

Ultra Rare card name: Manifestation of Death
Card Type: Manifestation (like a creature)
Card Cost: 17 (15)
Card Effects: At the end of each player's turn they must sacrifice a creature. If there are no creatures able to be sacrificed Manifestation of Death is destroyed. I.E. If your opponent/you ends their/your turn with no creatures to sacrifice Manifestation of death is destroyed. (Upgraded version has the same effect but gains Scavenger)
Card Stats: 0/25

C. Gravity

Gravity consists of hardy creatures, the voracious Otyughs, and the signature ability Gravity Pull.

Card Name: Graviton Soldier (Elite Graviton Soldier)
Card Type: Creature
Card Cost: 3 Gravity (4 Gravity)
Card Effect: None (Elite Graviton Soldier produces 1 Gravity per turn)
Card Stats: 1/4 (2/8)

Card Name: Gravity Well
Card Type: Creature
Card Cost: 4 Gravity (8 Gravity)
Card Effect: 2 Gravity Devour, Each time a creature is devoured by gravity well you gain 4 Gravity Quantums.
Card Stats: 0/5 (0/6)

Card Name: Immovable Object
Card Type: Spell
Card Cost: 3 Gravity (2 Gravity)
Card Effect: Target Creature gains Immovability. The next creature with momentum that attacks is blocked by this creature destorying both creatures in the process and granting you 6 gravity quantums.

Card Name: Graviton Captain (Graviton General)
Card Type: Creature
Card Cost: 6 Gravity (8 Gravity)
Card Effect: When Graviton Captain is destroyed place 3 Graviton Soldiers in play. (When Graviton General is destroyed place 3 Elite Graviton Soldiers in play)
Card Stats: 3/8 (4/12)

Ultra Rare card name: Manifestation of Gravity
Card Type: Manifestation (you get the idea)
Card Cost: 20 Gravity (30 Gravity)
Card Effects: 10 Gravity- Gravity Flux: All creatures switch attack/HP. I.E. Sparks become 0/2 instead of 2/0 until end of turn. (Upgraded version has the same ability but grants all creatures momentum)
Card Stats: 0/35 (1/50)

D. Earth

Earth dominates in permanent/pillar Destruction and uses it's unique ability Burrow to make it's creatures untargettable but deal less damage.

Card Name: Earth Blade (Earthen Dai Katana)
Card Type: Weapon
Card Cost: 3 Earth (4 Earth)
Card Effects: Weapon: Deal 5 Damage (Upgraded 5) at the end of every turn. Can not use a shield while Earth Blade is equipped. (Same as non upgraded)
Card Ability: 10 Earth- Destroy Earth Blade and deal 1 damage for every Pillar you control to your opponent. (8 Earth- Destroy Earth Blade to deal 2 damage per Pillar you control to your opponent.)

Card Name: Bury Alive (Entomb)
Card Type: Spell
Card Cost: 4 Earth (3 Earth)
Card Effect: Target creature is considered burrowed and gains: 2 Earth - Unburrow. If the creature is not an Earth element he takes 1 damage at the end of every turn until unburrowed. (Upgraded: Target creature is considered burrowed and can't be unburrowed. If it is not an earth elemental creature he takes 1 damage at the end of every turn.)

Card Name: Gorgon (Medusa)
Card Type: Creature
Card Cost: 4 Earth (3 Earth)
Card Effect: 1 Earth: 50% chance to turn target nonburrowed creature to stone turning him into a *statue. (Upgraded: 25% chance attacking creatures are turned into *statues.)
Card Stats: 2/2 (3/5)
*statues are 0/10 earth creatures that can't attack

Card Name: Shatter (Shatter Storm)
Card Type: Spell
Card Cost: 2 Earth (6 Earth)
Card Effect: Destroy target statue dealing 5 damage to the statue's controller. (Upgraded: Destroy all statues dealing 5 damage per statue to the statue's controller.)

Ultra Rare card name: Manifestation of Earth
Card Type: Manifestation
Card Cost: 17 Earth (15 Earth)
Card Effect: Generates 3 earth mana every turn.
Card Ability: 2 Earth- Fault Line: Destroy 1 pillar and deal 3 damage to the opponent.
Card Stats: 0/25 (5/25)

E. Life

Lifegain and tons of creatures really shines in this deck.

Card Name: Adder (Viper)
Card Type: Creature
Card Cost: 1 Life (3 Life)
Card Effect: Everytime this creature deals damage to your opponent add 1 poison. (Same for upgraded)
Card Stats: 1/1 (3/1)

Card Name: Snake Pit (Breeding Den)
Card Type: Permanent
Card Cost: 5 Life (4 Life)
Card Effect: At the end of turn one snake comes into play under your control. (Upgraded: Pay 4 Life quantums: Summon an Elite Serpent can be used multiple times per turn.)

Card Name: Snake (Elite Serpent)
Card Type: Creature
Card Cost: 1 Life (2 Life)
Card Effect: Momentum
Card Stats: 1/1 (2/1)

Card Name: Tree of Life
Card Type: Permanent
Card Cost: 10 Life (8 Life)
Card Effect: Pillars produce double the amount of quantums for both players.

Ultra Rare Card Name: Manifestation of Life
Card Cost: 17 Life (20 Life)
Card Type: Manifestation
Card Effect: None (Upgraded: All snakes (counts adders/viper/snake/elite serpents) get +2/+1)
Card Ability: 4 Life- Sacrifice a snake and gain 2 HP. (Upgraded: 2 Life-Sacrifice a snake and afflict opponent with 1 poison.)
Card Stats: 0/25 (5/30)

F. Fire

Fire is all about destruction and offense.

Card Name: Flash Fire
Card Type: Spell
Card Cost: 4 Fire (3 Fire)
Card Effect: Deals 4 damage to target opponent or creature. (Upgraded: Same as regular but with: Lobotomizes target creature as well)

Card Name: Playing With Fire
Card Type: Permanent
Card Cost: 5 Fire (4 Fire)
Card Effect: Lasts 2 turns, Doubles the damage of fire spells cast but causes the caster to take 50% of the damage done by each spell.

Card Name: Fire Mage (Inferno Mage)
Card type: Creature
Card Cost: 2 Fire (1 Fire)
Card Effect: Lose 5 life but gain 5 Fire quantums. May only be used once per turn. (Upgraded: Lose 4 life but gain 5 Fire Quantums. May only be used once per turn.)
Card Stats: 1/1 (2/1)

Card Name: Lingering Flames
Card Type: Permanent
Card Cost: 4 Fire (2 Fire)
Card Effect: Lingering Flames deals 1 damage to each player at the end of every turn.

Ultra Rare Card Name: Manifestation of Fire
card Type: Manifestation
Card Cost: 17 Fire (15 Fire)
Card Effect: Generates 1 Fire Quantum at the end of turn. (Upgraded: Attacking creatures are dealt 1 damage.)
Card Ability: 5 Fire minimum- Spontaneous Combustion: Consumes all fire quantums (minimum 5) all creatures are destroyed including your own. (Upgrade:Same as regular but with: You gain 1 Fire Quantum for each creature destroyed.)

[RockSoulx]

Reserved

[bobcamel]

Reserved for reviews.

...now... let me read.

Entropy:
Chaos Effect: Well, this certainly will be useful for the mutants and everything. A bit too cheap for usefulness.
Chaotic Vortex: A chance card, fits in the theme.
Chaos Beast: Now this one is just weak. It, if the mono decks go back to life, has 1 attack for ridiculous price, or like 2-3, or 12 if the enemy is doing Rambo, but this is still unjustified for that cost. 12 quanta, seriously... just compare it to a Light Dragon. Stable 12 Attack, and 12 HP, not some 6 or less.
Chaotic Rift: I sense a boredom within the names. Also, let me think... I can immediately destroy any enemy creature with this? Lightly and politely speaking, GTFO THIS IS OP
Manafestation: The "Mass Chaos Seed" is highly OP, the previous effect screws Mono decks over and doesn't touch Rambo, what is sort of against your general idea.

Death:
Altair: Reasonable, Pulverizers have a cost close to that.
Death Pact: SERIOUSLY, DUDE, IN ELEMENTS WE HAVE MORE LIFE THAN IN MTG. REALIZE THAT. 10 damage for 5 quanta and 5 of my HP, ridiculously weak.
Cultist of Demise: When does the effect work? On the summon? Because, you haven't given a cost. Also, touching the decked cards is way OP, no matter the cost.
Corrupted Lifelines: Somehow, this one is more OP than all the previous ones. Not only the enemy can't heal, but also on a try he'll be taking same damage every turn. Instant killer, really.
Manafestation: I can sense a tactical effect conjoined with use of a Boneyard. Good card, being the ULTRAR it can have such an effect.

Gravity:
Graviton Soldier: I'd rather use the Guards. The Elite is fairly useful.
Gravity Wellington Boot: Kind of balanced with the current Otyugh. Is alrighty
Immovable Object: ...a counter for Momentum. Pretty, just... it's not likely you'll be facing creatures with Momentum, with it being just the Chargers and results of Momentum... and mutants, but it's a bit too situational to be useful.
Graviton Captain: With this amount of HP it's not likely to be destroyed, or destroyed as itself. Because of this, it is a rather overpriced, weak attacker. Unless you can find a way to destroy it manually...
Manafestation: So, the ability makes your creatures a crushing force for one turn? Funny, and pretty useful. Just, you see... the unupgraded version will suicide by doing this, give it like 1 ATK. This, and if you don't beat the opponent in this one strike, all the enemies will be having Momentum, when using the upgrade, but no problem, it just makes this an endgame cards.

Earth:
Blade: 5 damage per turn, and then I can use further 10 quanta to deal like 16 damage. Costly for this amount of damage, really. The upgrade is a bit more reasonable.
Bury: This card is alright. Just, the unupgraded version is still less effective against Rambo than Mono.
Gorgon: So, I can immediately make an enemy creature useless? This is kind of OP, especially that with the upgrade I'll be doing this to roughly a quarter of enemies every turn.
Shatter: So, the statues are even less beneficial than I expected? My, the Gorgon is even more OP.
Manafestation: Which side's pillar? If enemy's, then reasonable, if yours, then weak. Actually, weak on both sides, as before you manage to play the card the pillars will be protected or will have produced enough quanta for the endgame.

Life:
Adder: Reasonable, nice card.
Snake Pit: Yes, Life definitely needs some creature creation. Reasonable, nice.
Snake: Kinda weak, with 2 damage, but
Tree of Life: Can be useful to get everything out, but same for your enemoy. If it could be conjoined with pillar destruction, then it would be fine, but...
Manafestation: The unupgraded version is ridiculously weak, the upgraded version still doesn't convince me to use the activatable. Having a bunch of 4/2 Elite Serpents and 5/2 Vipers sounds very good, though. Yes.

Fire:
Flash Fire: I was thinking of something similar, called Headshot... pretty reasonable, except that the Fire Bolts have way more damage potential, but the upgraded version sounds useful.
Playing With Fire: Could be useful for a Quanta-Buildup-Then-Bolt-Spam, just that you can get pummeled in the process. Not really useful.
Fire Mage: You'll be losing life fast, especially when used along the above card. Still, could be sort of useful sometimes.
Lingering Flames: Drop the cost to 1 or raise the damage, the cost is unjustified with 1 per turn. Remember, we have 100 HP as a bare minimum here. And we can heal.
Manifestation of Fire: It is sort of not useful, as with Flashfires and Firebolts I can control out creatures enough, and sacrificing all my creatures and quanta is a price too high.



Here.

[RockSoulx]

Allow me to explain:

Reserved for reviews.

...now... let me read.

Entropy:
Chaos Effect: Well, this certainly will be useful for the mutants and everything. A bit too cheap for usefulness. <-- The purpose of it being cheap is so you will use it. It allows for a monocolor Entropy deck which all these cards require you to be playing a mono Entropy deck anyway. This is one of the early game cards you should bring out.

Chaotic Vortex: A chance card, fits in the theme. <-- Thanks

Chaos Beast: Now this one is just weak. It, if the mono decks go back to life, has 1 attack for ridiculous price, or like 2-3, or 12 if the enemy is doing Rambow, but this is still unjustified for that cost. 12 quanta, seriously... just compare it to a Light Dragon. Stable 12 Attack, and 12 HP, not some 6 or less.
^--- You are aware the Entropy weapon is Discord right? And with the Manifestations ability you have the opportunity to make this creature 6+ at the least even vs a Monocolor deck. Remember you still get to play with the other Entropy cards. This is your late game big creature.


Chaotic Rift: I sense a boredom within the names. Also, let me think... I can immediately destroy any enemy creature with this? Lightly and politely speaking, GTFO THIS IS OP <---- You still can't target Immaterial/Immortal creatures, it is rather close to devouring/maxwell demoning them and has a chance to give them more creatures. Versatility in a monocolor deck is not overpowered. It fits in with the theme and is a risk like all entropy.

Manafestation: The "Mass Chaos Seed" is highly OP, the previous effect screws Mono decks over and doesn't touch Rambo, what is sort of against your general idea. <--- Unupgraded it provides another chance at a Discord like effect which will pump your late game Chaos beasts, Upgraded the mass chaos seed hits all creatures including your own. As the Manifestation is supposed to help you lock/end the game I'd say it succeeds at that. Playing a single color deck means that when chaos seed fires off an icebolt/flame lance/drain life, you don't get a ton of damage off it since you're playing a mono colored deck.

Deck Play Guide: All together combining these five cards with the current entropy cards means the deck relies still on chance but has a few places where it shines. These cards have all been run in a test group of elements players in my areas to see if they were balanced with the other new card decks and it shows that most players who learn how to play them can have a respectable win percentage. (I don't have the elements code so no I can't run online tests, the tests were performed the old fashion way with paper taped onto the front of my nephew's old pokemon cards using the elements rules)


Death:
Altair: Reasonable, Pulverizers have a cost close to that. <--- Thanks

Death Pact: SERIOUSLY, DUDE, IN ELEMENTS WE HAVE MORE LIFE THAN IN MTG. REALIZE THAT. 10 damage for 5 quanta and 5 of my HP, ridiculously weak. <---- Yes I realize we start with 100 health, caps also doesn't make your point correct. Allow me to explain: Death is about sacrifice and loss. You are giving up your life to deal damage to your opponent. You are playing a mono-Death deck to use this card therefore you have no way to heal yourself. Your opponent is not going to be sitting there and not hitting you. If you are dealing yourself damage recklessly and they are dealing you damage I am quite positive especially after testing different values to find the most balanced that you will lose with this deck. If you play it well it is a boon and even works as an endgame card. To prevent draws we made it so that when you play this card it damages you first and then the other person so you can't be at 5 life and them be at 10 and you play this and win. Believe it or not we actually tested how this card would affect the game and it turned out balanced as well as adding strategy to the mix.

Cultist of Demise: When does the effect work? On the summon? Because, you haven't given a cost. Also, touching the decked cards is way OP, no matter the cost. <--- This ability does have a cost, it costs you two life. You play this card and lose 2 life, your opponent discards one card. This card has nothing to do with decked cards so no idea where you got that from. Again just another way for a death player to weigh whether it is more beneficial for him to take even more damage to hurt his opponent or not. This only touches the cards in your opponents hand and he gets to choose which one to discard. Again in playtest this was proven to be balanced.

Corrupted Lifelines: Somehow, this one is more OP than all the previous ones. Not only the enemy can't heal, but also on a try he'll be taking same damage every turn. Instant killer, really. <--- This isn't overpowered in the slightest. As a mono-death deck you can't heal, and you are doing damage to yourself as well as the damage your opponent is taking. This has proved further to enhance the strategy of the deck and elements in general. Not all decks carry massive amounts of healing. All this does is make playing a death player take less time. It also provides a counter to miracle/mass creature feral bond. You are aware that this is a permanent and therefore being in a monodeath deck can be destroyed right? Also look at the cost, this comes out late game as a way to seal the deal for death.


Manafestation: I can sense a tactical effect conjoined with use of a Boneyard. Good card, being the ULTRAR it can have such an effect. <-- Thanks.

Death Deck Synopsis: The Death Deck is for the player who enjoys chess-like games. You have to think is it worth hurting myself to do this to my opponent or would it be better to do this instead? During playtests there was not a single deck that just came out and owned every one elses because they are all balanced to be skillbased/strategy based/a slight chance of luck. We rotated the players and let them build their own decks for each element so we could see how different skill/play styles would do and granted it was a small test with only 17 people I'd say on a large scale the test would of come out the same.

Gravity:
Graviton Soldier: I'd rather use the Guards. The Elite is fairly useful. <--- Thanks, these are intended to be base creatures as this is a low damage creature beat style deck.

Gravity Wellington Boot: Kind of balanced with the current Otyugh. Is alrighty <--- Thanks

Immovable Object: ...a counter for Momentum. Pretty, just... it's not likely you'll be facing creatures with Momentum, with it being just the Chargers and results of Momentum... and mutants, but it's a bit too situational to be useful. <--- In your eyes it is too situational to be useful. You probably also think Purify is too situational to be useful, etc etc etc. Just because you don't think a card is useful does not make it not a good card. I can respect your opinion however in a mono gravity deck I'd consider running 4 or 6 depending on what I was doing.

Graviton Captain: With this amount of HP it's not likely to be destroyed, or destroyed as itself. Because of this, it is a rather overpriced, weak attacker. Unless you can find a way to destroy it manually...  <--- Recipient of Gravity Pull/Immovable Object. Gravity creatures are notorious for having a high defense and we'll get to the reason why at the Gravity deck Synopsis.

Manafestation: So, the ability makes your creatures a crushing force for one turn? Funny, and pretty useful. Just, you see... the unupgraded version will suicide by doing this, give it like 1 ATK. This, and if you don't beat the opponent in this one strike, all the enemies will be having Momentum, when using the upgrade, but no problem, it just makes this an endgame cards. <--- I'll explain this one below, again your reviews seem to be shotsighted, rushed and without much thought as to how the whole deck will come together and compare to the other decks.

Gravity Deck Synopsis: This mono-Gravity deck is based around tough weenies that do little damage to start. You have the ability to hold out and build up an army of creatures and then late game to seal the deal and help you finish off your opponent. While yes he is right the unupgraded manifestation kills itself at the end of the turn I'd say it is a fair tradeoff for being able to hit your opponent for 35 damage which late game makes it a good finisher. The typical flow of the Gravity deck involves hitting your opponent for low damage during the start of the fight but having enough creatures to be a reasonable force even with creature destruction/sacrificing them with gravitypull/immovable object, and allows you a way to finish the fight late game, especially if they have a gravity shield up that stops your tough weenies from attacking and you have no valid answer for as Gravity mono has no permanent destruction since Pulveriser is Earth element. Again don't judge each card, judge the cards with how they work together and compare to the other decks. Believe it or not I did test all of these ideas before presenting them.

Earth:
Blade: 5 damage per turn, and then I can use further 10 quanta to deal like 16 damage. Costly for this amount of damage, really. The upgrade is a bit more reasonable. <--- Costly for an earth direct damage ability? Sounds fine to me. Since Earth's weapon is pulvurizer and you have to play mono-Earth to use this deck it required an acceptable alternative weapon. This is it, and yes the upgrade one is more cost effective as are a lot of upgraded cards.

Bury: This card is alright. Just, the unupgraded version is still less effective against Rambo than Mono. <--- This is a true statement. I'm not sure if you're trying to say that is a good thing or a bad thing. There are downsides to using a nonupgraded version of a card instead of the upgraded version? Sounds fine to me.

Gorgon: So, I can immediately make an enemy creature useless? This is kind of OP, especially that with the upgrade I'll be doing this to roughly a quarter of enemies every turn. <--- Unupgraded it is a 50/50 chance to make a creature 'useless' as you put it. It still can not target immaterial/immortal creatures and seems to be similiar to devouring them, or mutating them, or draining life/freezing/fire lancing/etcing them. The upgraded version we tested values from 5%-25% and it came out a tie between 20%-25%. Remember this only affects creatures that attack, it is chance based which as anyone can tell you just because it has a 25% chance to work doesn't mean it is going to always work 25% of the time. Best case scenario you'd turn 1/4th his creatures to stone. It is also a creature that is not immaterial/immortal so it is subject to being destroyed like most creatures. The unpgraded version can be devoured/ice bolt/flame lanced/drain lifed/etc and the upgraded version is still well within that range and only a single creature away from being devoured by an elite otyugh. Again, you can't assume this creature is going to be out the entire match.

Shatter: So, the statues are even less beneficial than I expected? My, the Gorgon is even more OP. <-- This takes time to set up, first you have to get the creatures into play and hope they work at turning a few creatures into statues. (The ones you haven't buried) all while your opponent is beating on your face because to use the weapon you can't use a shield (And being earth you have no stasis/phase shield/dissipation shield to start with) I hardly think allowing them to be shattered as a kill method is OP as you put it. And the test proves it.

Manafestation: Which side's pillar? If enemy's, then reasonable, if yours, then weak. Actually, weak on both sides, as before you manage to play the card the pillars will be protected or will have produced enough quanta for the endgame. <-- Any pillar. Why is it weak if you destroy yours? Because it hurts you? OH NO! Again this is a late game card that is designed to seal the game for you. It gives you that little extra damage you need to finish off your opponent. Remember you can earthquake theirs which slows them down then shoot them with their statues and if they aren't dead well you gotta do something might as well throw your pillars at them. Again I state: If you review the cards please look at how they work together as a mono-deck against the other mono-decks/rainbow decks. They are designed to have specific strengths and weaknesses with some matchups being harder than others but allowing skill to play a bigger part in who wins.

Earth Synopsis: Basically you have ways of slowing them down while chipping away at them. End game damage to seal victory comes from Shatter/Shatter Storm on the statues you've hopefully created and if that fails throw your pillars or theirs at them.


Life:
Adder: Reasonable, nice card. <--- Thanks.

Snake Pit: Yes, Life definitely needs some creature creation. Reasonable, nice. <-- Thanks.

Snake: Kinda weak, with 2 damage, but <--- Cheap easy weenies. Fits with how the deck is designed.

Tree of Life: Can be useful to get everything out, but same for your enemoy. If it could be conjoined with pillar destruction, then it would be fine, but... <-- Again designed to be use strategically, allows you to get your creatures out fast but also helps your opponent. You have to weigh whether your mass army of snakes is going to be worth them bringing out their beastly cards.

Manafestation: The unupgraded version is ridiculously weak, the upgraded version still doesn't convince me to use the activatable. Having a bunch of 4/2 Elite Serpents and 5/2 Vipers sounds very good, though. Yes. <---- Ridiculously weak? With Tree of Life your lands are generating double green each turn. Late game you have anywhere from 6-16 pillars for a total of 12-32 quantum per turn. You are producing anywhere from 4-8 snakes per turn with upgraded Snake pit. Doesn't seem weak to me, seems balanced.

Life Deck Synopsis: Designed to have a mass army of small creatures to overwhelm your opponent coupled with poison damage and life's natural ability to heal you fight to outlast your opponent. Manifestation is a great end game card to help you seal the deal by pumping your army if upgraded or giving you that little bit of extra healing to last a few more turns.

Fire:
Flash Fire: I was thinking of something similar, called Headshot... pretty reasonable, except that the Fire Bolts have way more damage potential, but the upgraded version sounds useful. <--- What stops you from running 6 of these and 4 Fire bolts? Nothing.

Playing With Fire: Could be useful for a Quanta-Buildup-Then-Bolt-Spam, just that you can get pummeled in the process. Not really useful. <--- Fire is all about offense. Fire is a fickle mistress and if you play with fire, you have to expect to get burned. Adding strategy to the game seems to be what you're against. Would you rather I suggest an instant kill card?

Fire Mage: You'll be losing life fast, especially when used along the above card. Still, could be sort of useful sometimes. <--- Again all about speed and offense. You're blasting and burning things and hoping you're left standing at the end.

Lingering Flames: Drop the cost to 1 or raise the damage, the cost is unjustified with 1 per turn. Remember, we have 100 HP as a bare minimum here. And we can heal. <--- Is a permanent and can have 6 in a deck for 6 damage per turn. This provides a constant damage source vs the burst Fire mainly has. Yes we do have 100 life but given the cards already shown + immolation + upgraded ash eaters + upgraded land you can generate quantums like mad. This is meant to soften them up for the final barrage while providing a mana sink to prevent third turn total annhilation kills.

Manifestation of Fire: It is sort of not useful, as with Flashfires and Firebolts I can control out creatures enough, and sacrificing all my creatures and quanta is a price too high. <--- Playing with this fire deck means conserving your firebolts for your finisher thus this provides a late game reset to give you one or two more chances at finishing the opponent before they overwhelm you.

Fire Synopsis: A spell casting deck relying on building up quantums and unleashing them at the right time in the right combination to drop your opponent quickly.  A quick intensly offensive deck.



Here.

Added my comments and a synopsis of the decks. Will post the second half soon after we finish tweaking some of the difficult cards.

[PuppyChow]

My main gripe with this idea: It not only screws over rainbow decks, but also dual and trio decks which are MUCH harder to make.

The fact that it needs to be your mark AND all your cards must be in that element to use them makes mono the only viable deck type. Honestly, I would quit elements if this were to be the case; the fun part of elements is finding 2-3 (3 is much harder to balance) elements that can work together to make a good pvp deck. Rainbow, of course, is currently OP against gods but in pvp is generally countered by most things.

[RockSoulx]

My main gripe with this idea: It not only screws over rainbow decks, but also dual and trio decks which are MUCH harder to make.

The fact that it needs to be your mark AND all your cards must be in that element to use them makes mono the only viable deck type. Honestly, I would quit elements if this were to be the case; the fun part of elements is finding 2-3 (3 is much harder to balance) elements that can work together to make a good pvp deck. Rainbow, of course, is currently OP against gods but in pvp is generally countered by most things.

A valid concern however please allow me to point you to this part:

I. Table of Contents
  II. Mono-Decks (Half done)
    III. Opposites Attract (Coming Soon)
      IV. End Game (Coming Soon)
         V. Summary (Coming Soon)

Play testing for the dual/trio decks has not yet begun as we are finishing the mono decks first. Second, I've actually built my personal rainbow deck and played against other people's mono decks and beaten them with a respectable ratio. Some decks are harder for my specific rainbow deck but it can still be done. It all comes down to strategy and skill. Though I appreciate your feedback. I grant you the title of III doesn't sound like duo/trio decks but that is what that section will entail. I will go ahead and release some teaser information:

Duo/Trio cards will be dual and tri colored meaning a card may cost 1 fire and 1 water quantum to play.

[PuppyChow]

You obviously don't play many good players then . I'm talking about versing veterans in the chat that have many fully upped decks, or even 6 of every upped card. Try to play a good pvp deck with a normal god farming rainbow, and you're usually annihilated.

As to cards costing multiple types of quantums, they already do. Pulverizor = 4 earth, 1 gravity for use. Ulitharid = 4 water, 1 aether for ability use., etc etc. Honestly, making cards that simply cost more than one type to play would likely only be a coding nightmare.

Instead, make the mono cards listed available for every deck, but *maybe* increase some of the card's costs. This way duo and trio decks would make use of them too. I don't think rainbow would use many of them since most of them are basically made for combos within that element only, so rainbow decks would be forced to be very heavy on that element which is never a good thing.

Also, who is the "we"? And how are you play testing them? :S

[RockSoulx]

You obviously don't play many good players then . I'm talking about versing veterans in the chat that have many fully upped decks, or even 6 of every upped card. Try to play a good pvp deck with a normal god farming rainbow, and you're usually annihilated.

As to cards costing multiple types of quantums, they already do. Pulverizor = 4 earth, 1 gravity for use. Ulitharid = 4 water, 1 aether for ability use., etc etc. Honestly, making cards that simply cost more than one type to play would likely only be a coding nightmare.

Instead, make the mono cards listed available for every deck, but *maybe* increase some of the card's costs. This way duo and trio decks would make use of them too. I don't think rainbow would use many of them since most of them are basically made for combos within that element only, so rainbow decks would be forced to be very heavy on that element which is never a good thing.

Also, who is the "we"? And how are you play testing them? :S

I wish people would read the whole thread instead of making assumptions:

Playtest group consists of as posted already: 17 local Elements players, 3 of which also have competed in TGC nationals for other card games (MtG, Pokemon) and we're not talking just competed in the first round, they've actually made it to nationals and are considered professionals, 6 of which myself included have been playing TGCG's since we were old enough to read the cards. The rest have been playing MgT and Elements for a long time. The experience level of the players for their playstyles was very high and all of them have played elements for at least 6 months most of them more. Seeing as my own deck in elements has all the cards I want upgraded upgraded as do their's, and the fact this group of players and I in addition to playing online use old pokemon cards with elements cards taped to the front to play in real life and multiplayer games we all have fully upped decks. You know what they say about assuming don't you? I do not list the playtest groups accomplishments to brag or boast, merely because it is being assumed by PuppyChow we're all a bunch of noobs with no experience in TGC's/Elements/Game design.

Coding: A nightmare to code a card costing multiple elements to play? Hardly. It is very easy to code and wouldn't be that much different from a card costing any number of random elements which are already in the game.

My personal rainbow god farming deck has so far a good pvp win rate I guess I just don't play the right opponents? Like I said, you can try to discredit the balance present but please do so with facts not assumptions.

These new cards were added to the cards currently available in elements, players were given time to build and rebuild decks following the guidelines listed above using the new cards plus those currently available and pitted against each other. The test group went like this (This is not counting the games we played with the new cards and guidelines just for fun before hand so everyone had experience with the new cards.)

A person would pick an element say mono-Darkness and given time to build a 30-60 card deck.
Person A would then play 10 games against Person B also using a mono colored deck.
The games were watched with players taking notes of key points in each game that contributed to either the loss or win.
Repeat 10 times.

Took us about 2 weeks of playing every night to get a good number of notes. During the testing each player could freely change their deck within their element etc. We even allowed them to switch elements if they so chose and build a new deck. The point is each deck got a chance to play against each of the elements at least 10 times.

The win loss ratio of the decks were all pretty even, no one deck dominated in wins over all than any other. Some decks matched up well vs other decks and not so well against others but that is a factor present in all TGC's. Most wins and losses were attributed to one player or the other making a mistake doing something one way when they should of done it the other with marginal losses being attributed to just a bad draw. Granted this doesn't have the precise circumstances present in a laboratory test for science but this is indeed how TGC's are tested in real life.

The results of which found it decreased the luck aspect of the game and put more emphasis on the skill of the player. You seem to think these decks are overpowered compared to rainbow when in fact they turn out to be on par. Each of these decks has strengths and chemistry within their cards, but they also have weaknesses. An example of which let's take Death. As Mono-death you're all about sacrifices to kill your opponent. The downside is you can not heal yourself so when you damage yourself you are helping your opponent kill you, while you can destroy creatures readily you have no real defense against spells. A rainbow deck has versatility allowing a single rainbow deck to have an answer for each specialized deck the downide it suffers from a luck of the draw a lot more.

[PuppyChow]

Playtest group consists of as posted already: 17 local Elements players, 3 of which also have competed in TGC nationals for other card games (MtG, Pokemon) and we're not talking just competed in the first round, they've actually made it to nationals and are considered professionals, 6 of which myself included have been playing TGCG's since we were old enough to read the cards. The rest have been playing MgT and Elements for a long time. The experience level of the players for their playstyles was very high and all of them have played elements for at least 6 months most of them more. Seeing as my own deck in elements has all the cards I want upgraded upgraded as do their's, and the fact this group of players and I in addition to playing online use old pokemon cards with elements cards taped to the front to play in real life and multiplayer games we all have fully upped decks. You know what they say about assuming don't you? I do not list the playtest groups accomplishments to brag or boast, merely because it is being assumed by PuppyChow we're all a bunch of noobs with no experience in TGC's/Elements/Game design.

Elements is very different from other card games (though there are some parallels between it and MtG). Elements is elements, not pokemon or MtG. You can't count experience with one as experience with another. Also, I sincerely doubt the people in this group are involved in this community greatly; I and others would have heard of this group beforehand if they were. You say "my own deck." You only have one deck upgraded?

Coding: A nightmare to code a card costing multiple elements to play? Hardly. It is very easy to code and wouldn't be that much different from a card costing any number of random elements which are already in the game.

I said likely for a reason. I *think* I remember Chriskang saying somewhere that because of how the database is configured and such allowing for this would be VERY tenuous.

My personal rainbow god farming deck has so far a good pvp win rate I guess I just don't play the right opponents? Like I said, you can try to discredit the balance present but please do so with facts not assumptions.

You yourself said you just got involved in the community:

I finally decided to join the community

. If this is true, you probably haven't played many people such as Jmizzle or Didia or Cisco in a normal pvp. You likely played only with this "play-test group" and random pvp matches. I could probably win a few matches in random pvp with a starter deck. As to the play-test group, since others (not only me) would have heard about it beforehand and there would likely be a big topic on this forum about it, I doubt it's made of long time elements players. Then again, some of the people in the Top 50 never post or are seen on the chat, so I *suppose* it is possible. But again (making assumptions), since these people aren't involved in the community they may not be amazing deck builders or have the knowledge/experience you claim. With elements, at least.

These new cards were added to the cards currently available in elements, players were given time to build and rebuild decks following the guidelines listed above using the new cards plus those currently available and pitted against each other. The test group went like this (This is not counting the games we played with the new cards and guidelines just for fun before hand so everyone had experience with the new cards.)

A person would pick an element say mono-Darkness and given time to build a 30-60 card deck.
Person A would then play 10 games against Person B also using a mono colored deck.
The games were watched with players taking notes of key points in each game that contributed to either the loss or win.
Repeat 10 times.

So, since this was done in real life, no assumptions can be made that these people are good deck builders. Elements is a global game. A case of you getting a few of your friends and doing an experiment (even if these friends are pro pokemon/MtG/whatever players) has no bearing on elements if they are not "pro" elements players. For instance, did any of them make a mono darkness deck with more than 30 cards? If they did, I doubt they really knew that much about elements. A good deck in elements is 30 cards, unless it has extra drawing capabilities. At least, that is the general guideline.

The results of which found it decreased the luck aspect of the game and put more emphasis on the skill of the player. You seem to think these decks are overpowered compared to rainbow when in fact they turn out to be on par. Each of these decks has strengths and chemistry within their cards, but they also have weaknesses. An example of which let's take Death. As Mono-death you're all about sacrifices to kill your opponent. The downside is you can not heal yourself so when you damage yourself you are helping your opponent kill you, while you can destroy creatures readily you have no real defense against spells. A rainbow deck has versatility allowing a single rainbow deck to have an answer for each specialized deck the downide it suffers from a luck of the draw a lot more.

Lol @ mono death being all about sacrifices. I would say "Death elementals deal with poison and infections; they will slowly kill their opponent allies and make profit off the tainted souls." That was taken directly from the game. If I were to make a mono death deck, it would be 6x deadly poison, 10x bone tower, 6x ivory dragon, 4x plague, 2x bone wall. Not about sacrifices at all, but instead about the GAME's concept of the death elemental. Anyway, good decks aren't necessarily all about an Element's concept (though it's fun when good decks ARE). It's about using an Element's cards to the greatest effect.

Rainbow's weakness: Permanent destruction (ala pulverizor) and speed. Any deck with these two attributes can usually terrorize a rainbow deck. Rainbow decks are slow and clunky. They rely on stalling until they can take control. With a pvp deck, the idea is to take control first, or create a deck where you don't care what the heck they do. A rainbow deck does neither. Also, most people are smart enough to destroy sundials before a pillar. False gods aren't. Overall, the human element makes rainbow decks bad against other players.



Sorry for the long post. Yeah. I feel like debating.

[The conartist]

I smell a lawsuit

[PuppyChow]

I smell eggggggggs. Green eggs. With ham.

/Offtopic

[RockSoulx]

Elements is very different from other card games (though there are some parallels between it and MtG). Elements is elements, not pokemon or MtG. You can't count experience with one as experience with another. Also, I sincerely doubt the people in this group are involved in this community greatly; I and others would have heard of this group beforehand if they were. You say "my own deck." You only have one deck upgraded?

Response: Yes Elements is a different card game but the fact of the matter is being able to build a good deck in magic takes a lot more skill than being able to build one in Elements. Hate on that comment all you want but Magic is a much more strategic and in depth game than Elements and I am not trashing elements I love the simplicity and enjoy it. The point is a person who has played other TGC's before has a distinct advantage over a person who doesn't when they play a new TGC. Hence why I included the fact everyone had a playtime of elements of at least 6 months. Secondly, just because our group doesn't post on forums doesn't mean we don't exist or that we haven't had extensive experience in PvP. The group only involves local players, most of which saw the fliers I put up in the local gaming stores advertising a simple, easy to play card game to do when you feel like gaming in private. So unless you live in my area it is doubtful you would of heard of our group. =) And yes, I only keep one deck. I keep rares I win incase I decide to change decks, but I don't keep multiple decks. I like my Rainbow deck right now so what's your point? This deck beats the false gods and the 40 card version does well in PvP. Not sure what that comment was supposed to prove.

I said likely for a reason. I *think* I remember Chriskang saying somewhere that because of how the database is configured and such allowing for this would be VERY tenuous.

Response: I haven't seen the behind the scenes of Elements but I'm relatively certain a work around could be put in, hell I could even do it for them if they'd like. If they don't want to put in the work or it proves to be too much of a hassel there are other ways things can be implemented and that is a valid issue that can be addressed.

You yourself said you just got involved in the community:

I finally decided to join the community

. If this is true, you probably haven't played many people such as Jmizzle or Didia or Cisco in a normal pvp. You likely played only with this "play-test group" and random pvp matches. I could probably win a few matches in random pvp with a starter deck. As to the play-test group, since others (not only me) would have heard about it beforehand and there would likely be a big topic on this forum about it, I doubt it's made of long time elements players. Then again, some of the people in the Top 50 never post or are seen on the chat, so I *suppose* it is possible. But again (making assumptions), since these people aren't involved in the community they may not be amazing deck builders or have the knowledge/experience you claim. With elements, at least.

Response: Again I ask why would there likely be a big forum topic about it when it is local? As you say, Elements is a global game. It's not hard to believe there is a group that plays elements that you don't know about considering you are far from omnipotent. Again another of your points based on assumptions so this one seems easy to throw out.

So, since this was done in real life, no assumptions can be made that these people are good deck builders. Elements is a global game. A case of you getting a few of your friends and doing an experiment (even if these friends are pro pokemon/MtG/whatever players) has no bearing on elements if they are not "pro" elements players. For instance, did any of them make a mono darkness deck with more than 30 cards? If they did, I doubt they really knew that much about elements. A good deck in elements is 30 cards, unless it has extra drawing capabilities. At least, that is the general guideline.

Response: Just because it was done in real life doesn't have any bearing on whether these are good deck builders or not. If you feel so inclined, why not do as we do and make your own cards and show us your results? Prove me wrong but again I don't argue with assumptions there's no reason to. Also, your statement of a good elements deck being 30 cards is not exactly correct. Deck building has a lot to do with math seeing as it is probability. As with any card game knowledge of mathmatics and probability can greatly improve your ability to build a deck. When added to experience playing the game you quickly go from becoming mediocre to being great. While I will agree 30 cards gives you a more stable hand, I highly doubt the fact a few of our testers built 34-40 card decks and did extremely well means that we're all bad deck builders.

Lol @ mono death being all about sacrifices. I would say "Death elementals deal with poison and infections; they will slowly kill their opponent allies and make profit off the tainted souls." That was taken directly from the game. If I were to make a mono death deck, it would be 6x deadly poison, 10x bone tower, 6x ivory dragon, 4x plague, 2x bone wall. Not about sacrifices at all, but instead about the GAME's concept of the death elemental. Anyway, good decks aren't necessarily all about an Element's concept (though it's fun when good decks ARE). It's about using an Element's cards to the greatest effect.

Again you are failing reading comprehension. If you look at the proposed new cards, the theme is death/sacrifice. They enhance deaths ability to generate creatures when creatures are destroyed as well as add utility by killing things. Why don't you come over and I'll give you your 6x deadly poison, 10x bone tower, 6x ivory dragon, 4x plague, 2x bonewall, and I'll bring out the monodeath deck I used in the playtest which includes the new cards and without changing any cards in it we'll see who wins. =)

Rainbow's weakness: Permanent destruction (ala pulverizor) and speed. Any deck with these two attributes can usually terrorize a rainbow deck. Rainbow decks are slow and clunky. They rely on stalling until they can take control. With a pvp deck, the idea is to take control first, or create a deck where you don't care what the heck they do. A rainbow deck does neither. Also, most people are smart enough to destroy sundials before a pillar. False gods aren't. Overall, the human element makes rainbow decks bad against other players.

Response: You haven't seen my Rainbow deck so I'm not sure how you can call it slow and clunky. I don't use the same strategies vs the False Gods as I use PvP. Again I don't mind debate but if you keep posting assumptions I'm going to stop responding. If you post facts or at least some type of substance other than this... I haven't heard about it so it can't be real, or I wasn't invited or this person wasn't invited so it's doubtful they're good deck builders, etc and so forth doesn't prove anything. Use examples and give situations using the new cards where you feel they need changed or that they are overpowered. So far the only reasonable complaint I had from you is these make monodecks stronger than tri/dual color decks to which I've responded give us a chance to playtest and we'll add some cards for dual/trio decks to balance it out.

Sorry for the long post. Yeah. I feel like debating.