Echo | Reverberation

[Terran 3]

Spoiler for Old Version:

NAME: Echo ELEMENT: Air COST: 4 TYPE: Spell ATK|HP: TEXT: Deals 3 damage to the target for each unique permanent in play.	NAME: Reverberation ELEMENT: Air COST: 3 TYPE: Spell ATK|HP: TEXT: Deals 3 damage to the target for each unique permanent in play.

ART: Terran 3 IDEA: Terran 3 NOTES: There doesn't seem to be much synergy between Permanents and other card types, so here's a way of doing direct damage. Pillar Stacks count as a single Permanent, as do Pendulums. SERIES: -

NAME: Echo ELEMENT: Air COST: 4 TYPE: Spell ATK|HP: TEXT: Deals 2 damage to the target for each unique permanent on your side of the field.	NAME: Reverberation ELEMENT: Air COST: 3 TYPE: Spell ATK|HP: TEXT: Deals 2 damage to the target for each unique permanent on your side of the field.

ART: Terran 3 IDEA: Terran 3 NOTES: Lowered the damage potential of the card from the first version. Pillar Stacks count as a single Permanent, as do Pendulums. SERIES: -

[dawn to dusk]

Do upped and unupped versions count as different?

[Terran 3]

I suppose they shouldn't. Good catch.

[ARTHANASIOS]

I think "unique" should mean every different stack of permanents. In other words, even 3 Golden Hourglasses should be count as "unique" permanents. Pillars and Towers of the same element go to two different stacks, so their stacks should count as two respective "unique" permanents.

I would change the text and effect into "Deal damage to target equal to the amount of permanent stacks in play" and keep the cost the same (4 |3 ) because you ought to have plenty of permanents established in order to deal great amount of damage but you can also greatly damage a player who plays a permanent-based stall (and perm-based stalls have not many counters in the first place).

Overall, this is a pretty interesting idea and I don't remember anything like this being done before. Great work! 5/5

[Terran 3]

I did intend for 1 stack of pillars and 1 stack of pendulums to count for 2 stacks, apologies if it wasn't clear enough. However, I'm a bit worried about someone just running 12 different Pendulums with an Air Mark to wreck havoc. I'm not sure if I want it to only deal 1 damage per unique permanent, however. What if I reduced the damage to 2 per unique permanent and raised the cost to 6 | 5 ?

[ARTHANASIOS]

^
That's a fair option.

About being afraid of a player packing many pillars to wreak havoc, a deck with many different pillars wouldn't function; it would die before doing anything. However, your card idea may make perm-based decks with Echo OTK a possibility and new deck ideas & possibilities is always a good thing.

[skyironsword]

12 different perms would allow Echo to deal 36 damage.

12 horned frogs would deal 36 damage. Not to mention they would continue attacking over the following turns.

Nope, seems balanced to me.

[andretimpa]

12 different perms would allow Echo to deal 36 damage.

12 horned frogs would deal 36 damage. Not to mention they would continue attacking over the following turns.

Nope, seems balanced to me.

You are forgetting that the permanents wouldn't be used just for this.

Does this counts permanents from your opponent too? If it does, the fact that most decks use 3~4 permanents means this becomes easily 15~20 damage which seems too much to me. I'd drop the damage to 2/permanent and do +1 cost, or do 1/permanent and make it cost 2 (unnuped) and 1 (upped).

If it counts only your permanents then maybe +1 cost would be okay.

[iDaire]

Balance huh?
Ice Bolt deals 14 damage.
Same with Fire Bolt + 7
Lightning can deal 60 damage with twelve of them.
Vultures have been known to do 200 damage.
Mutation renders creatures useless.
Pandemonium is a menace.
Compare this to pandemonium. Not so out of shape now huh?

[andretimpa]

LOLWUT

There's a difference between a card being powerfull when you need set up time (bolts need 70+ quanta to do that much damage, vultures require killing 200 creatures to get to 200 damage) vs a card that is powerfull in a very common situation (that can happen around turn 3 if my estimates are good). Having 12 is not an argument. Cards are balanced by PvP not PvE. Mutation and Panda are double edged swords in their unnuped forms

[iDaire]

We are trying to find reasons to say it is balanced.
Quicksand/Earthquake/Deflag/Steal/Butterfly/*Ice Bolt/*Shockwave/*Fire Bolt clearly work well against this card. This card is very well balanced.



*When used against voodoo doll

[OdinVanguard]

I like this concept, but I think the damage output will scale too quickly.

If the damage scales up by 3 each for all permanents in play, then you can easily build a deck around this card (say a couple of each pendulum type and an air mark) that would output massive damage in only a handful of turns.
(If you throw in a mirror shield, you can even bounce it off your own shield to bypass any mirror shield they might have since it is targetable)

At that rate, it is easy to get the damage output up to 15+ in only a couple of rounds.

Its a cool idea, but I think it will be a bit OP right now.
Either the scaling on the damage needs to come down, or there needs to be a counterbalance somehow...