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Offline Drake_XIVTopic starter

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Dread | Dread https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47432.msg1048083#msg1048083
« on: March 04, 2013, 09:09:58 pm »
NAME:
Dread
ELEMENT:
Darkness
COST:
5 :darkness
TYPE:
Permanent
ATK|HP:

TEXT:
Shield: Decrease physical damage by 1, the damage absorbed is drained from your opponent.
NAME:
Dread
ELEMENT:
Darkness
COST:
8 :darkness
TYPE:
Permanent
ATK|HP:

TEXT:
Shield: Decrease physical damage by 2, the damage absorbed is drained from your opponent.

ART:

IDEA:
Drake_XIV
NOTES:
Complement of Solar Shield
SERIES:

« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 01:04:11 am by Drake_XIV »

Offline Rutarete

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Re: Dread | Dread https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47432.msg1048098#msg1048098
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2013, 09:44:15 pm »
Malignant Cell Synergy!

I'm just scared of the upgraded, - as a counterpart to Solar Shield, it's much more powerful. The other just has a cost decrease.
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Re: Dread | Dread https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47432.msg1048226#msg1048226
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2013, 03:08:22 am »
I'm just scared of the upgraded, - as a counterpart to Solar Shield, it's much more powerful. The other just has a cost decrease.

Is +1 :underworld to you really the same as -1 (2 if upped)hp to the opponent?

Offline Rutarete

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Re: Dread | Dread https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47432.msg1048264#msg1048264
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2013, 04:54:09 am »
I'm just scared of the upgraded, - as a counterpart to Solar Shield, it's much more powerful. The other just has a cost decrease.

Is +1 :underworld to you really the same as -1 (2 if upped)hp to the opponent?
The upgraded is a constant Drain Life that doesn't rely on have 10x amount of quanta. And since this is a game where you can't directly control which creatures attack any one turn (except for wardens), this card is much more powerful that it would be in MtG or something, where you are not obliged to attack every turn.
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Offline Drake_XIVTopic starter

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Re: Dread | Dread https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47432.msg1048267#msg1048267
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2013, 05:00:10 am »
I'm just scared of the upgraded, - as a counterpart to Solar Shield, it's much more powerful. The other just has a cost decrease.

Is +1 :underworld to you really the same as -1 (2 if upped)hp to the opponent?

Rut, I think he might be agreeing with you[?]

Also, tokens seem to agree with me.
Photon is -1 hp for 0 :underworld
Gnome is -1 hp for 1 :underworld
Dragonfly is -1 for 1 :underworld
etc.

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Re: Dread | Dread https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47432.msg1048304#msg1048304
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2013, 05:41:56 am »
I was indeed agreeing with Rut.

While you might say that 1 :underworld = 1 hp, it's hardly that way when this applies to a dr shield. Have you done any playtesting? Open up trainer, make a mono darkness and see just how much extra damage you would get if 1dr was turned into damage.

Offline Drake_XIVTopic starter

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Re: Dread | Dread https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47432.msg1048310#msg1048310
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2013, 05:47:18 am »
Actually, I don't necessarily agree 1 :underworld is equivalent to 1 damage.  I was just bringing up instances that would prove that to be the case.

This was really a premature sense of card balance, but I just wanted to wing the cost and see more of any comments on the ability and such.  I'll probably be raising it to meet the cost of Ice Shield or something.

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Re: Dread | Dread https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47432.msg1048806#msg1048806
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2013, 05:30:03 pm »
I'm not sure I see the connection between "dread" and the mechanic, but it does make for a fun eye-for-an-eye concept.
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Re: Dread | Dread https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47432.msg1048833#msg1048833
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2013, 06:51:46 pm »
I was indeed agreeing with Rut.

While you might say that 1 :underworld = 1 hp, it's hardly that way when this applies to a dr shield. Have you done any playtesting? Open up trainer, make a mono darkness and see just how much extra damage you would get if 1DR was turned into damage.
Agreed. 2DR combined with the fact that the 2DR are turned into healing is way too much. Assuming an upgraded meta and you have this out against 3 Giant Frogs, normally they would do 15 damage, but you're blocking 2x3 damage and healing 2x3HP as well, which essentially equates to a DR of 12/15, or 4 damage for each Frog.

Another example would be 1 Ruby Dragon, which would normally do 13 damage. With this shield out you're blocking 2x1 damage and healing 2x1HP as well, which essentially equates to a DR of 4/13 damage. A value of 4, once again.

Considering the fact that most creatures in-game have at least 2 attack, the shield functions largely as a 4 DR shield for a cost of 5 :darkness, not to mention that it deals 2 points of spell damage. Despite the fact that in effect it is "draining the HP from the opponent" due to the fact that as a shield it's blocking an attack, I assume that the calculations are done simultaneously. This results in a 2DR+1 Spell Damage/creature | 4DR+2 Spell Damage/creature Shield, assuming of course that each creature attacking has a minimum attack of 1 | 2.

Ultimately then, both versions, standard and upgraded seem to be overpowered, as the standard version does what Titanium Shield does with an added bonus and the upgrade does much more than Titanium's upgrade, which only has a DR of 3.
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Offline OdinVanguard

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Re: Dread | Dread https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47432.msg1048984#msg1048984
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2013, 12:24:32 am »
By way of analogy, the increase from 1 to 2 Dr is analogous to a change from 2 to 4 effective damage advantage due to the fact that the resisted damage is also dealt to the opponent.

The unupped version seems well balanced to me since 4 :darkness is providng 2 damage advantage per strike. This is analogous to earth's titanium shield.

However, by the same analogy, the upped version would actually be BETTER than earths Diamond shield, which costs 6 :earth . Ergo, the upgraded version should probably cost at least 6 :darkness (probably more).
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Re: Dread | Dread https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47432.msg1048996#msg1048996
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2013, 01:04:20 am »
Updated

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Re: Dread | Dread https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47432.msg1049006#msg1049006
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2013, 01:53:36 am »
A higher quanta cost is quite easy for Dark to mitigate with devourers IMHO.  I wonder if we should take that  into account when balancing cards.

 

anything
blarg: