Elements the Game Forum - Free Online Fantasy Card Game

Elements the Game => Card Ideas and Art => Topic started by: jacker on October 30, 2011, 08:22:40 pm

Title: Death Shadow | Death Shadow
Post by: jacker on October 30, 2011, 08:22:40 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/y766Y.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/RCofv.png)
NAME:
Death Shadow
ELEMENT:
Death
COST:
7 :death
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
X|6
TEXT:
Demise - Death Shadow gets more Atk as you have less HP.
NAME:
Death Shadow
ELEMENT:
Death
COST:
7 :death
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
X|7
TEXT:
Demise - Death Shadow gets more Atk as you have less HP.
ART:
anarkyman
IDEA:
jacker
NOTES:
After some advice, i changed the card this way. Demise formula to calculate is (thanks camoninja!) 25^(1-HP/MAXHP), so 25 is its maximum Atk. Some examples
50/100 -> 5
30/100 ->10
15/100 ->15
1/100  ->24
50/500->18
20/500->22
1/500->25
The change of Atk will occur at the end of every turn.
Now it should be more balanced. Waiting for suggestions
SERIES:
Title: Re: Death Shadow | Death Shadow
Post by: ninetyfools on October 30, 2011, 08:24:03 pm
..... A good idea but then I could just antimatter it back....  >:D Muahahha
Title: Re: Death Shadow | Death Shadow
Post by: jacker on October 30, 2011, 08:27:43 pm
..... A good idea but then I could just antimatter it back....  >:D Muahahha
It will gonna kill me xD
Maybe give him Immortality, since he is Death in person? Pretty flavorful
Title: Re: Death Shadow | Death Shadow
Post by: xsindomanx on October 30, 2011, 09:13:43 pm
Does death shadow's attack only change on the turn that it is put on the board, or does it change at the end of every turn before it attacks?

I would suggest:
Compare this card to any dragons. Upped dragons cost 12 quarta or so, and this card, which has a very good potential to do twice that, costs only 7.
Title: Re: Death Shadow | Death Shadow
Post by: jacker on October 30, 2011, 09:20:40 pm
Does death shadow's attack only change on the turn that it is put on the board, or does it change at the end of every turn before it attacks?

I would suggest:
    Death shadow's attack only changes on the first turnDecrease death shadow's attack a bit...way too high (consider changing the -attack: health ratio also)Possibly drains all remaining death quarta, so that it cannot be used again too quicklyNO IMMORTALITY: Upped, if even if your opponent has 30 hp left, death adder has 25 attack. Crazy if it cannot be destroyed.
Compare this card to any dragons. Upped dragons cost 12 quarta or so, and this card, which has a very good potential to do twice that, costs only 7.
The intention for the card value is to be costantly update. The cost is not as high as dragons because it has some limitation in use (it would be crazy put it into play with a negative atk). Anyway, it could be raised without problem.
from the 4th line, it seems you didn't understood the card... It loses X atk, where X is YOUR life total. So, if you are at 25hp with upped, he is a 30|6
Title: Re: Death Shadow | Death Shadow
Post by: russianspy1234 on October 30, 2011, 09:25:41 pm
if you are going to be "inspired" by an M:tG card you should at least change the name.
Title: Re: Death Shadow | Death Shadow
Post by: jacker on October 30, 2011, 09:32:14 pm
sorry sir, is just an idea at the moment, i'll change it anyway
Title: Re: Death Shadow | Death Shadow
Post by: russianspy1234 on October 30, 2011, 09:35:20 pm
its not a huge deal, a lot of people here play or played magic as well so the cards are bound to crop up in the create a card forum.  could definitely be broken in the right situation.  im imagining playing this turn 3-4 and playing antimatter on it.
Title: Re: Death Shadow | Death Shadow
Post by: ninetyfools on October 30, 2011, 09:38:48 pm
its not a huge deal, a lot of people here play or played magic as well so the cards are bound to crop up in the create a card forum.  could definitely be broken in the right situation.  im imagining playing this turn 3-4 and playing antimatter on it.
Yupp. In arena... Platinum. Uses shards. 500 hp. Uses this card. Antimatter. OTK!
Title: Re: Death Shadow | Death Shadow
Post by: jacker on October 30, 2011, 09:42:07 pm
Not at platinum level, so i can't imagine. Definetely broken, ok :D

Maybe moved toward this direction?
(http://i.imgur.com/neM6w.png)
Title: Re: Death Shadow | Death Shadow
Post by: ninetyfools on October 30, 2011, 09:45:09 pm
Not at platinum level, so i can't imagine. Definetely broken, ok :D

Maybe moved toward this direction?
 (http://i.imgur.com/26hBj.png)
That is a HUGE difference from the beginning idea.  :o
Srsly thats stupid. AND u spelled destroy wrong. I like the original idea better.
Title: Re: Death Shadow | Death Shadow
Post by: jacker on October 30, 2011, 09:49:58 pm
The first idea is problematic when it comes to choose: when antimattred, what should be done?

Scenario: i'm at 90, DS is at -45, AM and is 45. When my hp drop at 80, which should be tha value?
Doing the card this way, it should be easier
(http://i.imgur.com/zM0SK.png)
Title: Re: Death Shadow | Death Shadow
Post by: ninetyfools on October 30, 2011, 09:54:09 pm
Maybe every time the attack is changed, you lose 10 hp? A reasonable price.
Actually forget that. People can still afford that if they use something stooopid like shard.
Title: Re: Death Shadow | Death Shadow
Post by: jacker on October 30, 2011, 10:08:07 pm
The last update?
Title: Re: Death Shadow | Death Shadow
Post by: ninetyfools on October 30, 2011, 10:08:59 pm
Just the new shards.
Title: Re: Death Shadow | Death Shadow
Post by: jacker on October 30, 2011, 10:14:26 pm
No, i mean, what about the last update, last post of page 1
Title: Re: Death Shadow | Death Shadow
Post by: ninetyfools on October 30, 2011, 10:27:31 pm
OHHHH... Hey thats a nice idea. But... still kinda cheap. Raise how much it cost by 3. Its much stronger than a dragon.
Title: Re: Death Shadow | Death Shadow
Post by: OldTrees on October 30, 2011, 10:36:13 pm
The second version looks to be the best of the lot. A better version IMO would be:

"KEYWORD: CARDNAME gains +1|+0 when you are damaged and -1|+0 when you are healed."
KEYWORD: the name of the ability
CARDNAME: the name of the card

Alternatively
"KEYWORD: CARDNAME gains +1|+0 when a player is damaged and -1|+0 when a player is healed."
Title: Re: Death Shadow | Death Shadow
Post by: jacker on October 30, 2011, 10:53:33 pm
The second version looks to be the best of the lot. A better version IMO would be:

"KEYWORD: CARDNAME gains +1|+0 when you are damaged and -1|+0 when you are healed."
KEYWORD: the name of the ability
CARDNAME: the name of the card

Alternatively
"KEYWORD: CARDNAME gains +1|+0 when a player is damaged and -1|+0 when a player is healed."
I feel the same, that it is the more balanced, even though i was searching for something more extreme :P
Title: Re: Death Shadow | Death Shadow
Post by: darkrobe on October 31, 2011, 12:01:19 am
id go with the less extreme version. im imaging using shard of sacrifice to drastically lower my hp. play this card to have both a high damaging creature and invincibility for turn or two. way too much
Title: Re: Death Shadow | Death Shadow
Post by: Camoninja on October 31, 2011, 02:30:38 am
What about making the skill vaguely defined in the card but concretely defined in mechanics? Like Adrenaline.

"Avenger | Avenger - Revenge: This card's attack increases as its owner's health decreases."
Attack = MaxHP/(HP+10)

I chose the name Avenger because he sounds like a guy who only cares about punishing people- and the worse the crime the madder he gets. You can keep the old name though.
Title: Re: Death Shadow | Death Shadow
Post by: xsindomanx on October 31, 2011, 02:41:38 am
What about making the skill vaguely defined in the card but concretely defined in mechanics? Like Adrenaline.

"Avenger | Avenger - Revenge: This card's attack increases as its owner's health decreases."
Attack = MaxHP/(HP+10)

I chose the name Avenger because he sounds like a guy who only cares about punishing people- and the worse the crime the madder he gets. You can keep the old name though.
Sounds like a pretty good idea, a little bit like Sosa, but then not really :P
But your card can realistically only have its attack up to 5 and in specific decks 10 (max hp = 100 - 200; current hp = 10)
I think a better ratio would be simply; owner's hp loss / 3 or so.
Title: Re: Death Shadow | Death Shadow
Post by: Camoninja on October 31, 2011, 03:30:24 am
Hm, are you sure you want 16 damage at 50 HP with no max HP modifiers? I was trying to get a more noticeable risk/reward bonus. Mine was pretty weak, now that I look at it. I thought it would be interesting to have it would be weak until HP is clearly risky (maybe 30% of HP remaining). I came up with this:

(MaxHP-HPLeft)2/400

Stupid Shard of Sacrifice though. At 20/100 it deals 16 damage, and at 80 it deals 1 damage. And 50/100 would be 6. Meanwhile 50/499 (Stone Skin stall) would be -never mind, too high. Maybe an exponential equation?

301-(  (hpLeft/maxHP)  )

That gives the Stone Skin an extra HP flexibility, but max damage is still 30.
Okay I think the second equation is good now.
Title: Re: Death Shadow | Death Shadow
Post by: jacker on October 31, 2011, 09:38:23 am
301-(  (hpLeft/maxHP)  )

That gives the Stone Skin an extra HP flexibility, but max damage is still 30.
Okay I think the second equation is good now.
Great idea camoninja, thanks :) and the equation is pretty good i guess.
I was trying this (HP/MAX)^(-0.7-HP/MAX). It gives +2 at 50/100, +3 at 30/100, +6 at 10/100 and +16 at 2/100. Maybe yours is better :P
Title: Re: Death Shadow | Death Shadow
Post by: karis on October 31, 2011, 11:54:40 am
first idea is still good for me...    i think it only have little problem with some card (even if it's critical problem, still have many way to fix it.)      :)
Title: Re: Death Shadow | Death Shadow
Post by: Manipul8r on October 31, 2011, 12:08:18 pm
I like camoninja's approach.  If you want it to be extreme but not abusable, there needs to be some behind the scenes math beyond the card space.
Title: Re: Death Shadow | Death Shadow
Post by: jacker on October 31, 2011, 12:13:01 pm
Now if i have to change the thread name with Demise Shadow| Demise Shadow?
Title: Re: Death Shadow | Death Shadow
Post by: xsindomanx on October 31, 2011, 04:16:35 pm
Now if i have to change the thread name with Demise Shadow| Demise Shadow?
Though I am one of those who agreed that camoninja's idea was somewhat better than your own, you are free to choose your own card names as you feel appropriate. He felt that the card's ability seemed better with 'demise' instead of 'death', but if that is not the case for you, and you have a pretty good argument / feelings about your card name / art, don't worry about that part :P

I'm not that much into the mathematical equation of this ability, but I would say max damage at 20 or 25 would be most appropriate. Currently there are 0 cards that can do 30 damage, excluding heavy armor + rage pot on any creatures or overdrive + gravity creatures, but at 20, it is realistically similar to dragons, except better since you have to wait quite a bit for the damage to reach that high.
Title: Re: Death Shadow | Death Shadow
Post by: jacker on October 31, 2011, 06:47:34 pm
Though I am one of those who agreed that camoninja's idea was somewhat better than your own, you are free to choose your own card names as you feel appropriate. He felt that the card's ability seemed better with 'demise' instead of 'death', but if that is not the case for you, and you have a pretty good argument / feelings about your card name / art, don't worry about that part :P

I'm not that much into the mathematical equation of this ability, but I would say max damage at 20 or 25 would be most appropriate. Currently there are 0 cards that can do 30 damage, excluding heavy armor + rage pot on any creatures or overdrive + gravity creatures, but at 20, it is realistically similar to dragons, except better since you have to wait quite a bit for the damage to reach that high.
1) Camoninja never said me to change the name, it was just not to replicate the name of an Mtg card. Just that.
2) Thanks to that formula, is very simple to change the maximum damage, since it is an exponential. I feel like 25 is a more than appropriate value.
Title: Re: Death Shadow | Death Shadow
Post by: jacker on November 01, 2011, 09:51:53 am
Changes in the opening post!
Title: Re: Death Shadow | Death Shadow
Post by: Daguerreo on November 01, 2011, 08:00:31 pm
Shard of Sacrifice -> Miracle -> Death Shadow

 :o
Title: Re: Death Shadow | Death Shadow
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on November 01, 2011, 08:05:37 pm
Shard of Sacrifice -> Miracle -> Death Shadow

 :o
That's.... really expensive, and SoSa would prevent you from playing Miracle immediately after unless you have 12 Light Pillars in play already. Highly unlikely that one would run that combo too, since you'd need to have 4 of these out for an OTK assuming you opponent has full HP. (As a result it seems pretty slow)

Otherwise, I like the new version of this card. It starts off weaker than midhitters like Lava Golem and GoTP, but makes up for it lategame when you're taking more damage.

Title: Re: Death Shadow | Death Shadow
Post by: jacker on November 01, 2011, 08:14:23 pm
Otherwise, I like the new version of this card. It starts off weaker than midhitters like Lava Golem and GoTP, but makes up for it lategame when you're taking more damage.
that's the point. Glad you like it :)
Title: Re: Death Shadow | Death Shadow
Post by: darkrobe on November 01, 2011, 11:49:15 pm
this card's attack is changing all the time right. does that mean that it will get rid of antimatter after a turn?
Title: Re: Death Shadow | Death Shadow
Post by: jacker on November 02, 2011, 04:16:28 pm
this card's attack is changing all the time right. does that mean that it will get rid of antimatter after a turn?
it should, yes.
blarg: