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casthegamer

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Make This Card Entry: Light Fountain/Light Spring https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4210.msg41424#msg41424
« on: March 20, 2010, 07:48:48 am »
EDIT: CARD UPDATED

here is my entry:



Notes

average number of creatures generated by turn (x)*
(1)0-1 (2)2 (3)2-3 (4)2-3 (5)3-4 (6)3-4 (7)4

approximate percentage of time you will generate (x) creatures*
(0)15% (1)12% (2)20% (3)18% (4)14% (5)16% (6)5%

*statistics based on the hand size of ai3 opponents over 20 consecutive games

Comments welcome.


omerbey

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Re: Make This Card Entry: Light Fountain/Light Spring https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4210.msg41426#msg41426
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2010, 07:53:43 am »
nice idea but I think it should be the reverse. If opponent has lots of cards, you should have more photons/rays to balance things out.

casthegamer

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Re: Make This Card Entry: Light Fountain/Light Spring https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4210.msg41429#msg41429
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2010, 08:08:27 am »
nice idea but I think it should be the reverse. If opponent has lots of cards, you should have more photons/rays to balance things out.
actually, it needs to be the way it's formatted now. you don't want people dropping this on second turn to get 6 or 7 RoLs and an easy third turn hope.

as it is, your opponent has to decide how to handle light spring: only play vital cards to make it less powerful, or play everything and race.

omerbey

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Re: Make This Card Entry: Light Fountain/Light Spring https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4210.msg41432#msg41432
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2010, 08:50:53 am »
good point.

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Re: Make This Card Entry: Light Fountain/Light Spring https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4210.msg41435#msg41435
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2010, 09:15:41 am »
WOOT for more cool light cards. Yeah, this looks pretty good. Good job!
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Offline Chemist

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Re: Make This Card Entry: Light Fountain/Light Spring https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4210.msg41462#msg41462
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2010, 11:53:28 am »
Great idea in my opinion, except for the Rays of Light part. How about reducing the cost of the upgraded version and making it produce Photons instead? Several RoL through a single (:light) card just seems OP to me. The card would enable a lot of combos anyway, including with Lucifern and Hope. (And I really like what this does to Bonewall. Light is supposed to be strong against death.)

Scaredgirl

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Re: Make This Card Entry: Light Fountain/Light Spring https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4210.msg41536#msg41536
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2010, 03:35:20 pm »
1. The card looks and sounds (fountain) like a permanent, yet it is a spell?

2. Ridiculously overpowered when opponent has only a few cards. I mean.. 7 creatures with one card?! Not to mention these creatures produce  :light .


The idea that the effect is related to how many cards your opponent has is very cool, but how you used that idea doesn't work imo.

casthegamer

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Re: Make This Card Entry: Light Fountain/Light Spring https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4210.msg41568#msg41568
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2010, 04:55:12 pm »
1. The card looks and sounds (fountain) like a permanent, yet it is a spell?
it seems to me that outside of maybe boneyard, all the permanents included in the game so far have been things you can bring with you. an hourglass, a sword, a shield, a shard. so i figured that the fountain/spring could be something you just pass by on you elemental journey. that way you get the effect once, and then move on.

2. Ridiculously overpowered when opponent has only a few cards. I mean.. 7 creatures with one card?! Not to mention these creatures produce  :light .
before i start, i do have to note that you're pointing out the 'best case scenario' stand point, and not also the 'worst case scenario'. notice that only your opponent has the ultimate control over how well this card does in a match. in most cases the expected return from this card will be 3-5 creatures. that being said, i actually wanted it to produce less. the problem was with the stupid clause you would have to add:

Put a number of Ray of Lights into
play equal to 5 minus the number
of cards in your opponents hand.
a negative number results in no
creatures.


at least i think this clause is necessary. either way, it loses some simplicity when you move away from you opponents max hand size.

i actually don't think the unupped version is OP as it doesn't act as an accelerator. it destroys bonewall, but it also can be pretty good at fueling your opponents bonewall, and it's stopped by basically every other shield.

as for the upped version, it does lose some of the accelerating power because you have to wait for your opponent to start dropping cards to get a larger effect, and it's early in the game that acceleration is most valuable. i hate just upping the cost to make a card balanced, but it does seem to be the simplest approach and it would make you work harder to gain the quantum back via RoLs. i don't know. If more people are saying OP, i guess i'll increase the cost of the upped version.

Delreich

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Re: Make This Card Entry: Light Fountain/Light Spring https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4210.msg41731#msg41731
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2010, 11:55:25 pm »
[...] i actually wanted it to produce less. the problem was with the stupid clause you would have to add:

Put a number of Ray of Lights into
play equal to 5 minus the number
of cards in your opponents hand.
a negative number results in no
creatures.

No need to be so detailed. Just say "up to 5 photons" and something about getting more if your opponent has fewer cards in hand.
That's similar to how Adrenaline, Ice Bolt and others are worded and work.

casthegamer

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Re: Make This Card Entry: Light Fountain/Light Spring https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4210.msg42075#msg42075
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2010, 08:34:10 pm »
OP has been updated.

casthegamer

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Re: Make This Card Entry: Light Fountain/Light Spring https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4210.msg42107#msg42107
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2010, 10:18:32 pm »
EDIT: the card has been finalized. i will post the original and first draft(referred to as 'updated' in this post) below:

original


updated


END EDIT
so to better evaluate this card, i decided to find out exactly how many cards the average opponent has in hand on any given turn.

from top to bottom is 20 games played vs ai3 (with unupped mono life rush). from left to right is the number of cards in the opponent's hand from turn 1 through 7.

    1234567

1   7544432
2   5511110
3   2121000
4   7210110
5   4644322
6   7443221
7   7655543
8   3445433
9   7554444
10 3333111
11 7343122
12 7432101
13 7544332
14 7333422
15 7565454
16 6445433
17 6667775
18 7554433
19 3312221
20 4212111


average number of cards in opponents hand for turns 1-7
1-5.65  2-4.05  3-3.5  4-3.35  5-2.8  6-2.45  7-2.00

average number of creatures generated by turn (x)
original    (1)1-2 (2)3 (3)3-4 (4)3-4 (5)4-5 (6)4-5 (7)5
updated  (1)0    (2)1 (3)1-2 (4)1-2 (5)2-3 (6)2-3 (7)3

percentage of turns you can generate (x) creatures
original    (0)10% (1)5%  (2)12% (3)20% (4)18% (5)14% (6)16% (7)5%
updated  (0)27% (1)20% (2)18% (3)14% (4)16% (5)5%

notice that over 140 turns, there were only 7 turns where the card could be utilized to its full potential. i'm starting to think that the original was not that OP.

 

blarg: