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Offline EvilDeathXTopic starter

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Crumbling Sword|Crumbling Sword https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48181.msg1056338#msg1056338
« on: April 02, 2013, 08:26:33 am »
NAME:
Crumbling Sword
ELEMENT:
Other
COST:
3
TYPE:
Permanent
ATK|HP:
4|1 (If Flown)
TEXT:
Weapon: Deals 4 damage.
3 Crumble: Deals 5 extra damage this turn, then crumbles away.
NAME:
Crumbling Sword
ELEMENT:
Other
COST:
3
TYPE:
Permanent
ATK|HP:
5|1 (If Flown)
TEXT:
Weapon: Deals 5 damage.
3 Crumble: Deals 8 extra damage this turn, then crumbles away.

ART:
None yet.
IDEA:
EvilDeathX
NOTES:
Crumble is an effect that will activate an effect then crumble away. Meaning the card will use its Crumble ability, then after it resolves the card will be sacrificed.

When Crumbling Sword's Crumble is activated, it will stay on the field until the damage phase, deal its damage then the extra damage. (both will be added to the same total, kind of like a fahrenheit) Then, after damage has been delt, Crumbling Sword will be destroyed. If the damage from Crumbling Sword is prevented in any way, the effect will still resolve, meaning Crumbling Sword will destroy itself, even if it did not do the extra damage. A flown weapon Crumbling Sword with the Crumble ability active, will confirm the hit, then total the damage and bonus damage into one total, much like fahrenheit. A Crusader, who endows Crumbling Sword, will gain the Crumble ability. If activated, it will act the same as a flown Crumbling Sword.

Large portion of credit for this card goes to Blarp and OdinVanguard. They helped massively with cost vs. effect.
SERIES:
Crumble (Includes Crumbling Golem|Crumbling Colossus, Crumbling Pillar|Crumbling Tower, Crumbling Shield, and Crumbling Sword)

Old Versions:
Spoiler for Hidden:
NAME:
Crumbling Sword
ELEMENT:
Other
COST:
5
TYPE:
Permanent
ATK|HP:
4|1 (If Flown)
TEXT:
Weapon: Deals 4 damage.
3 Crumble: Deals 5 additional damage this turn, then crumbles away.

NAME:
Crumbling Sword
ELEMENT:
Other
COST:
6
TYPE:
Permanent
ATK|HP:
5|1 (If Flown)
TEXT:
Weapon: Deals 5 damage.
3 Crumble: Deals 8 additional damage this turn, then crumbles away.


ART:
N/A
IDEA:
EvilDeathX
NOTES:
Crumble is an effect that will activate an effect then crumble away. Meaning the card will use its Crumble ability, then after it resolves the card will be sacrificed.

When Crumbling Sword's Crumble is activated, it will stay on the field until the damage phase, deal its damage then the extra damage. (both will be added to the same total, kind of like a fahrenheit) Then, after damage has been delt, Crumbling Sword will be destroyed. If the damage from Crumbling Sword is prevented in any way, the effect will still resolve, meaning Crumbling Sword will destroy itself, even if it did not do the extra damage. A flown weapon Crumbling Sword with the Crumble ability active, will confirm the hit, then total the damage and bonus damage into one total, much like fahrenheit. A Crusader, who endows Crumbling Sword, will gain the Crumble ability. If activated, it will act the same as a flown Crumbling Sword.
SERIES:
Crumble (Includes Crumbling Golem|Crumbling Colossus, Crumbling Pillar|Crumbling Tower, Crumbling Shield, and Crumbling Sword)

NAME:
Crumbling Sword
ELEMENT:
Other
COST:
3 :
TYPE:
Permanent
ATK|HP:
4|1 (If Flown)
TEXT:
Weapon:  Deal 4 damage at the end of every turn.
3 : Crumble
Deal an extra 10 damage.
NAME:
Crumbling Sword
ELEMENT:
Other
COST:
3 :
TYPE:
Permanent
ATK|HP:
5|1 (If Flown)
TEXT:
Weapon:  Deal 5 damage at the end of every turn.
3 : Crumble
Deal an extra 15 damage.

ART:
N/A
IDEA:
EvilDeath66X
NOTES:
Crumble is an effect that will activate an effect then crumble away. Meaning the card will use its Crumble ability, then after it resolves the card will be sacrificed.

When Crumbling Sword's Crumble is activated, it will stay on the field until the damage phase, deal its damage then the extra damage. (both will be added to the same total, kind of like a fahrenheit) Then, after damage has been delt, Crumbling Sword will be destroyed. If the damage from Crumbling Sword is prevented in any way, the effect will still resolve, meaning Crumbling Sword will destroy itself, even if it did not do the extra damage. A flown weapon Crumbling Sword with the Crumble ability active, will confirm the hit, then total the damage and bonus damage into one total, much like fahrenheit. A Crusader, who endows Crumbling Sword, will gain the Crumble ability. If activated, it will act the same as a flown Crumbling Sword.
SERIES:
Crumble (Includes Curse of Crumbling, Crumbling Golem|Crumbling Colossus, Crumbling Pillar|Crumbling Tower, Crumbling Shield, and Crumbling Sword)
« Last Edit: April 04, 2013, 04:00:47 am by EvilDeathX »

Offline CuCN

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Re: Crumbling Sword|Crumbling Sword https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48181.msg1056343#msg1056343
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2013, 08:47:22 am »
Fahrenheit actually behaves as if its attack power were increased by the amount of fire quanta divided by 5. It can deal damage over a hope shield with more than 5 reduction. Here, it has 5 damage+15 extra damage, and it deals 9 damage through hope at 11:

Offline EvilDeathXTopic starter

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Re: Crumbling Sword|Crumbling Sword https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48181.msg1056350#msg1056350
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2013, 09:17:23 am »
Fahrenheit actually behaves as if its attack power were increased by the amount of fire quanta divided by 5. It can deal damage over a hope shield with more than 5 reduction. Here, it has 5 damage+15 extra damage, and it deals 9 damage through hope at 11:


Huh, I thought it was the other way. Oh well, thank you for bringing this to my attention. I will ammend my initial post with a new ruling.

Offline OdinVanguard

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Re: Crumbling Sword|Crumbling Sword https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48181.msg1056519#msg1056519
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2013, 09:26:26 pm »
If you shorten the damage part, you can fit in a little better description of the crumble ability for new players:
"Weapon:  Deals 4 damage.
3 : Crumble
Deals an extra 10 damage, but self-destructs at end of turn."

I actually, VERY much like this card, since I've been wanting to see "disposable" weapons added for quite some time now.

It will make a very amusing addition to fractal decks (flying weapon + this + fractal).
Keep that combo in mind when balancing since it will likely be the most common method of use.

With that in mind, +10 / +15 damage may be a little too high, but I'm not sure on that. I would try and get in touch with some of the more experienced PvP players on the forums to get their take on it.

Other than that, I LOVE this card.

P.S. If you want I would like to make some art for it, Either 3D or modified stock photos.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 09:29:27 pm by OdinVanguard »
Whether the glass is half full or half empty is a moot point. It is always filled to the brim. It is only a matter of by what. The real question is: What fills you?
If your zombie plan is
kill -9 `ps l | awk '{print $2" "$3" "$9}' | grep "Z" | awk '{printf("%s ",$2)}'`
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Offline blarp

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Re: Crumbling Sword|Crumbling Sword https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48181.msg1056538#msg1056538
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2013, 11:01:36 pm »
Intersting. It might be too powerful as is, as it's obviously stronger than UG.

Maybe remove the ability to destroy itself so the oppoenent wouldn't want to kill it and you'd have to use PC or animate weapon and CC to destroy it.
My default opinion of a new card is OP. Your job as a card creator will have to be to convince me otherwise.
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Offline OdinVanguard

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Re: Crumbling Sword|Crumbling Sword https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48181.msg1056544#msg1056544
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2013, 11:12:00 pm »
Intersting. It might be too powerful as is, as it's obviously stronger than UG.

Maybe remove the ability to destroy itself so the oppoenent wouldn't want to kill it and you'd have to use PC or animate weapon and CC to destroy it.
UG does spell damage. This will do physical damage.

The big difference there is that UG can only be blocked using mirror shield or emerald shield.

This card's damage is much easier to stop as any shield will work (except weight shield).

The self-destruct ability seems to be his core concept and looks like its part of a series, so removing it would probably defeat the point of the card...
Whether the glass is half full or half empty is a moot point. It is always filled to the brim. It is only a matter of by what. The real question is: What fills you?
If your zombie plan is
kill -9 `ps l | awk '{print $2" "$3" "$9}' | grep "Z" | awk '{printf("%s ",$2)}'`
You might be a unix junky

Offline blarp

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Re: Crumbling Sword|Crumbling Sword https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48181.msg1056547#msg1056547
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2013, 11:20:35 pm »
Intersting. It might be too powerful as is, as it's obviously stronger than UG.

Maybe remove the ability to destroy itself so the oppoenent wouldn't want to kill it and you'd have to use PC or animate weapon and CC to destroy it.
UG does spell damage. This will do physical damage.

The big difference there is that UG can only be blocked using mirror shield or emerald shield.

This card's damage is much easier to stop as any shield will work (except weight shield).

The self-destruct ability seems to be his core concept and looks like its part of a series, so removing it would probably defeat the point of the card...


I know it's part of a series, but series will honestly never make it into the game as is except as part of a giant collab at minimum.

While stopable by some shields, I dont think that makes it much less powerful. The fact that it's other makes a big difference compared to the duo UG.
My default opinion of a new card is OP. Your job as a card creator will have to be to convince me otherwise.
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Offline OdinVanguard

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Re: Crumbling Sword|Crumbling Sword https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48181.msg1056556#msg1056556
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2013, 11:34:09 pm »
Intersting. It might be too powerful as is, as it's obviously stronger than UG.

Maybe remove the ability to destroy itself so the oppoenent wouldn't want to kill it and you'd have to use PC or animate weapon and CC to destroy it.
UG does spell damage. This will do physical damage.

The big difference there is that UG can only be blocked using mirror shield or emerald shield.

This card's damage is much easier to stop as any shield will work (except weight shield).

The self-destruct ability seems to be his core concept and looks like its part of a series, so removing it would probably defeat the point of the card...


I know it's part of a series, but series will honestly never make it into the game as is except as part of a giant collab at minimum.

While stopable by some shields, I dont think that makes it much less powerful. The fact that it's other makes a big difference compared to the duo UG.
The other major difference is that this card is a weapon, so you could only have 1 in play at a time unless you use either flying weapon or crusader.

One of the big advantages that a lot of UG decks have is that they can play multiple gasses at once. This makes them much harder to stop via CC since they can be saved up and played all at once.

UG is also produced by nymphs, again allowing it to be very resistant to CC.

Finally, this card would end up taking the place of other weapons in any deck it gets used in unless flying weapon gets used. Since weapons often provide great utility for their element, this could be a fairly major factor as well.

All that said, I do thing the extra damage gained on the upgraded version is a bit on the high side given the cost.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 11:35:58 pm by OdinVanguard »
Whether the glass is half full or half empty is a moot point. It is always filled to the brim. It is only a matter of by what. The real question is: What fills you?
If your zombie plan is
kill -9 `ps l | awk '{print $2" "$3" "$9}' | grep "Z" | awk '{printf("%s ",$2)}'`
You might be a unix junky

Offline blarp

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Re: Crumbling Sword|Crumbling Sword https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48181.msg1056567#msg1056567
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2013, 11:52:54 pm »
It might replace the weapon, but in a rush deck where this would be used that's irrelevant a lot of the time. It's simply too cheap and strong. I could easily see myself using 6 of these in a rainbow rush.

A specialized UG deck may be better at dealing direct damage otks, but these are much more useable with minimal downsides.

While less specialized is good, whenever you create an other card you have to spend a long long time thinking about how to balance it.

Crumble is an interesting series idea, but being based in other will need a lot of balancing work. When you work with other cost becomes for the most part irrelevant and so it's all about the effect.
My default opinion of a new card is OP. Your job as a card creator will have to be to convince me otherwise.
Happy to help with questions regarding upped PvP
Thanks for voting Blarp as your Favorite PvP Deck of 2012!
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Offline EvilDeathXTopic starter

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Re: Crumbling Sword|Crumbling Sword https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48181.msg1056640#msg1056640
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2013, 05:20:29 am »
If you shorten the damage part, you can fit in a little better description of the crumble ability for new players:
"Weapon:  Deals 4 damage.
3 : Crumble
Deals an extra 10 damage, but self-destructs at end of turn."

I took your advice and reworded the text, you may read the new product above.

P.S. If you want I would like to make some art for it, Either 3D or modified stock photos.

I would greatly appriciate some art for this card. If given the choice I would prefer 3D over stock, but sometimes those can look weird.(Old Otyugh as an example)
Thank you.

Also, I reworked the numbers for this card. Gave it a higher casting cost and lower bonus damage. I think now it should be a little more reasonable.

Offline blarp

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Re: Crumbling Sword|Crumbling Sword https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48181.msg1056642#msg1056642
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2013, 05:36:59 am »
Other cards are really hard to balance and I'm not sure you've got this one right yet. I don't think it's OP as is, might have been too strong a nerf. could make it deal 8 extra damage and lower opponents maximum hp by same amount.

not sure if crumble should cost any quanta.
My default opinion of a new card is OP. Your job as a card creator will have to be to convince me otherwise.
Happy to help with questions regarding upped PvP
Thanks for voting Blarp as your Favorite PvP Deck of 2012!
Blarp (the deck), bane of Championship League

Offline OdinVanguard

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Re: Crumbling Sword|Crumbling Sword https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48181.msg1056710#msg1056710
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2013, 03:10:46 pm »
I think it could do with a cost of 3 or 4 instead of 5 since its standard damage is reasonable.
The reduction to crumble damage should keep it fairly well balanced now I think.
I'll start working on artwork now. It will be interesting to try and give a good visual for the "crumble" part.

Would you prefer something that looks like its getting rusted and pitted, or something that looks like its made of old stone that is wearing away?
Whether the glass is half full or half empty is a moot point. It is always filled to the brim. It is only a matter of by what. The real question is: What fills you?
If your zombie plan is
kill -9 `ps l | awk '{print $2" "$3" "$9}' | grep "Z" | awk '{printf("%s ",$2)}'`
You might be a unix junky

 

blarg: