Elements the Game Forum - Free Online Fantasy Card Game

Elements the Game => Card Ideas and Art => Topic started by: EvilDeathX on April 02, 2013, 08:47:34 am

Title: Crumbling Golem|Crumbling Colossus
Post by: EvilDeathX on April 02, 2013, 08:47:34 am
(http://i.imgur.com/Ohppcjn.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/bx08LKf.png)
NAME:
Crumbling Golem
ELEMENT:
Earth
COST:
6
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
5|5
TEXT:
Shards do not affect this card.
3 Crumble: Double this card's attack, at the end of this turn it crumbles away.
NAME:
Crumbling Colossus
ELEMENT:
Earth
COST:
6
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
7|5
TEXT:
Shards do not affect this card.
2 Crumble: Double this card's attack, at the end of this turn it crumbles away.

ART:
N/A
IDEA:
EvilDeathX
NOTES:
Crumble is an effect that will activate an effect then crumble away. Meaning the card will use its Crumble ability, then after it resolves the card will be sacrificed.

When Crumbling Golem|Crumbling Colossus has its Crumble activated, its current attack will be doubled, and its maximum HP will be reduced to 0. However, like Sparks|Ball Lightning, this creature will not die immediately. It will stay until the end of the turn, and attack.

Crumbling Golem|Crumbling Colossus cannot be affected directly by any shards, this does not mean that SoSac cannot reverse its damage, or SoBr, cannot draw it. SoSac can still reverse its damage because SoSac affects the damage, not the creature. And SoBr affects the creature before it is on the field, so its effect is not active yet. The main purpose for this effect is to prevent over buffing through SoP, or SoW.
SERIES:
Crumble (Includes Crumbling Golem|Crumbling Colossus (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,48183.0/topicseen.html), Crumbling Pillar|Crumbling Tower (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,48178.0/topicseen.html), Crumbling Shield (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,48180.0/topicseen.html), and Crumbling Sword (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,48181.0.html))

Old Versions:
(http://i.imgur.com/SLZyEPE.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/de9T5xw.png)
NAME:
Crumbling Golem
ELEMENT:
Gravity
COST:
5
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
5|5
TEXT:
Shards do not affect this card.
:gravity :gravity :gravity : Crumble: Double this cards attack, at this end of the turn it crumbles away.
NAME:
Crumbling Colossus
ELEMENT:
Gravity
COST:
5
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
7|5
TEXT:
Shards do not affect this card.
:gravity :gravity  : Crumble: Double this cards attack, at the end of this turn it crumbles away.

ART:
=golem&filters[primary]=images&filters[secondary]=videos&sort=1&o=9#/user/taliesin_ap_elphin/media/golem.jpg.html?filters%5Bterm%5D=golem&filters%5Bprimary%5D=images&filters%5Bsecondary%5D=videos&sort=1&o=9&_suid=136497377045606861451984874893]http://media.photobucket.com/user/taliesin_ap_elphin/media/golem.jpg.html?filters[term]=golem&filters[primary]=images&filters[secondary]=videos&sort=1&o=9#/user/taliesin_ap_elphin/media/golem.jpg.html?filters%5Bterm%5D=golem&filters%5Bprimary%5D=images&filters%5Bsecondary%5D=videos&sort=1&o=9&_suid=136497377045606861451984874893 (http://media.photobucket.com/user/taliesin_ap_elphin/media/golem.jpg.html?filters[term)
IDEA:
EvilDeathX
NOTES:
Crumble is an effect that will activate an effect then crumble away. Meaning the card will use its Crumble ability, then after it resolves the card will be sacrificed.

When Crumbling Golem|Crumbling Colossus has its Crumble activated, its current attack will be doubled, and its maximum HP will be reduced to 0. However, like Sparks|Ball Lightning, this creature will not die immediately. It will stay until the end of the turn, and attack.

Crumbling Golem|Crumbling Colossus cannot be affected directly by any shards, this does not mean that SoSac cannot reverse its damage, or SoBr, cannot draw it. SoSac can still reverse its damage because SoSac affects the damage, not the creature. And SoBr affects the creature before it is on the field, so its effect is not active yet. The main purpose for this effect is to prevent over buffing through SoP, or SoW.
SERIES:
Crumble (Includes Crumbling Golem|Crumbling Colossus (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,48183.0/topicseen.html), Crumbling Pillar|Crumbling Tower (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,48178.0/topicseen.html), Crumbling Shield (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,48180.0/topicseen.html), and Crumbling Sword (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,48181.0.html))

(http://i.imgur.com/OHlguoo.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/m9VvbSZ.png)
NAME:
Crumbling Golem
ELEMENT:
Gravity
COST:
5 :gravity
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
5|5
TEXT:
Shards do not affect this card.
:gravity :gravity :gravity : Crumble: Double this cards attack, at this end of the turn it crumbles away.
NAME:
Crumbling Colossus
ELEMENT:
Gravity
COST:
5 :gravity
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
7|5
TEXT:
Shards do not affect this card.
:gravity :gravity  : Crumble: Double this cards attack, at the end of this turn it crumbles away.

ART:
N/A
IDEA:
EvilDeathX
NOTES:
Crumble is an effect that will activate an effect then crumble away. Meaning the card will use its Crumble ability, then after it resolves the card will be sacrificed.

When Crumbling Golem|Crumbling Colossus has its Crumble activated, its current attack will be doubled, and its maximum HP will be reduced to 0. However, like Sparks|Ball Lightning, this creature will not die immediately. It will stay until the end of the turn, and attack.

Crumbling Golem|Crumbling Colossus cannot be affected directly by any shards, this does not mean that SoSac cannot reverse its damage, or SoBr, cannot draw it. SoSac can still reverse its damage because SoSac affects the damage, not the creature. And SoBr affects the creature before it is on the field, so its effect is not active yet. The main purpose for this effect is to prevent over buffing through SoP, or SoW.

SERIES:
Crumble (Includes Curse of Crumbling (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,48184.0/topicseen.html), Crumbling Golem|Crumbling Colossus (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,48183.0/topicseen.html), Crumbling Pillar|Crumbling Tower (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,48178.0/topicseen.html), Crumbling Shield (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,48180.0/topicseen.html), and Crumbling Sword (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,48181.0.html))

(http://i.imgur.com/xCNdCeS.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/S6oesUP.png)
NAME:
Crumbling Golem
ELEMENT:
Other
COST:
5
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
5|5
TEXT:
Shards do not affect this card.
3 : Crumble
Double this card's attack and reduce its HP to 0.
NAME:
Crumbling Colossus
ELEMENT:
Other
COST:
5
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
7|5
TEXT:
Shards do not affect this card.
2 : Crumble
Double this card's attack and reduce it's HP to 0.

ART:
N/A
IDEA:
EvilDeath66X
NOTES:
Crumble is an effect that will activate an effect then crumble away. Meaning the card will use its Crumble ability, then after it resolves the card will be sacrificed.

When Crumbling Golem|Crumbling Colossus has its Crumble activated, its current attack will be doubled, and its maximum HP will be reduced to 0. However, like Sparks|Ball Lightning, this creature will not die immediately. It will stay until the end of the turn, and attack.

If Crumbling Golem|Crumbling Colossus has its Crumble ability active, and it's maximum/current HP goes above 0, it will still die at the end of the turn. This is the resolution of the Crumble ability, not death by absence of HP.

Crumbling Golem|Crumbling Colossus cannot be affected directly by any shards, this does not mean that SoSac cannot reverse its damage, or SoBr, cannot draw it. SoSac can still reverse its damage because SoSac affects the damage, not the creature. And SoBr affects the creature before it is on the field, so its effect is not active yet. The main purpose for this effect is to prevent over buffing through SoP, or SoW.
SERIES:
Crumble (Includes Curse of Crumbling (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,48184.0/topicseen.html), Crumbling Golem|Crumbling Colossus (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,48183.0/topicseen.html), Crumbling Pillar|Crumbling Tower (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,48178.0/topicseen.html), Crumbling Shield (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,48180.0/topicseen.html), and Crumbling Sword (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,48181.0.html))
Title: Re: Crumbling Golem|Crumbling Colossus
Post by: CuCN on April 02, 2013, 08:52:03 am
If it dies at the end of the turn anyway, is there any point in reducing the HP to 0?
And how general is the shard negating effect? Does it still do damage against a SoSac? Can it not be drawn by SoBr?
Title: Re: Crumbling Golem|Crumbling Colossus
Post by: EvilDeathX on April 02, 2013, 09:06:43 am
If it dies at the end of the turn anyway, is there any point in reducing the HP to 0?
And how general is the shard negating effect? Does it still do damage against a SoSac? Can it not be drawn by SoBr?

Reducing the HP to 0 is kind of sybolic its impending doom, the main reason I say that it still dies, is because I don't want people doing things like blessing to keep it alive.

Forgive me, I did not think of those. SoSac would still reverse damage, as that is affecting the damage not the creature, and SoBr, would still be able to draw it, as it is not on the field yet, so it's ability would not be active. The main shards I was trying to prevent was SoP, and SoW. As they can make it become rediculously big. SoR would not really do anything with this guy, as you have to pay the cost for the shard.(Which is the same as the Crumble cost) The others don't really affect creatures directly.

Thank you for your comment, I will ammend my initial post with this information.
Title: Re: Crumbling Golem|Crumbling Colossus
Post by: Rutarete on April 02, 2013, 03:38:05 pm
In the table, you don't need a : after the cost.

Combining this with SoP would be fun :) *reads notes* awwww..

Anyway, this crumble mechanic looks like a lot of fun!

On second thought, it would still be fun with SoP.
Title: Re: Crumbling Golem|Crumbling Colossus
Post by: EvilDeathX on April 02, 2013, 05:44:04 pm
In the table, you don't need a : after the cost.

Combining this with SoP would be fun :) *reads notes* awwww..

Anyway, this crumble mechanic looks like a lot of fun!

On second thought, it would still be fun with SoP.

Thank you for that note, however that : was something it added on it's own. I will fix it though, thank you.

And yes, it would be fun with SoP, especially because flooding doesn't destroy "Other" element creatures. I can see a FG deck that uses a creative PU or fractal to multiply this, and give all of them massive buffs to practically OTK you.(Another reason why "No Shards")
Title: Re: Crumbling Golem|Crumbling Colossus
Post by: Rutarete on April 02, 2013, 05:58:19 pm
*Edit* Accidentally double posted.
You can remove your post by clicking 'remove' next to the modify button.
Title: Re: Crumbling Golem|Crumbling Colossus
Post by: russianspy1234 on April 02, 2013, 06:11:41 pm
balance issues aside, the wording is terrible.  you cant say "reduce HP to 0" and assume people will know it will behave completely differently from how a creature whose HP is reduced to 0 will normally act AND from creature who start with 0 HP would act.  that's just not right.

secondly, this is an Other creature with stats equal to its cost.  Other creatures are definitely hard to balance at higher costs. even without it's ability, i can get 2 novas and 4 of these and have 28 attack on the first turn. and then using its ability i could attack for 56 the turn after that. theres no coming back from that for the opponent.
Title: Re: Crumbling Golem|Crumbling Colossus
Post by: OdinVanguard on April 02, 2013, 08:21:16 pm
How about using this for wording:
"Immune to all shard effects.
3 Crumble:
Double this cards attack. It will die at the end of the turn."

I like the card, but I worry about balance issue related to having a powerful :rainbow cost card.

Why not borrow from Drake_XIV and make it a "Fused" cost (e.g. cost must be paid from a single element source). That would alleviate a good deal of balance problems created by nova and quantum tower combos to keep it from being too powerful in rainbow decks.

This would also work in :earth or :gravity if you decide to make it belong to an element.

Check out sxc.hu for artwork ideas. They have a lot of cool free images. If you search for "statue" you should be able to find some nifty ides.
Title: Re: Crumbling Golem|Crumbling Colossus
Post by: blarp on April 02, 2013, 11:08:39 pm
Its way too strong a beater for something that costs other. Ignoring the effect, this has to be addressed.
Title: Re: Crumbling Golem|Crumbling Colossus
Post by: OdinVanguard on April 02, 2013, 11:38:27 pm
Its way too strong a beater for something that costs other. Ignoring the effect, this has to be addressed.
Definitely.

The most obvious option would be to make it element specific.

Alternately, making it a "Fused" cost (i.e. must be paid from a single quanta pool) could be another route if it is to remain an "other" type card.
Title: Re: Crumbling Golem|Crumbling Colossus
Post by: EvilDeathX on April 03, 2013, 06:40:35 am
Weighing the two options, I decided that I liked the idea of giving it an element more than increasing its cost. I can't see paying so much for a creature that kills its self. In my opinion, 5 was pushing it. But, the people have spoken and I cannot keep the Crumble cards exclusive to "Other."
Title: Re: Crumbling Golem|Crumbling Colossus
Post by: OdinVanguard on April 03, 2013, 04:30:27 pm
I think this will make entropy jealous. It's essentially an all around better card than abomination... But maybe that's not too terrible.

I definitely like this new incarnation much better than as a type "other". Looks fun.
Title: Re: Crumbling Golem|Crumbling Colossus
Post by: blarp on April 03, 2013, 08:27:16 pm
element specific works well. maybe the crumble can be other though.

while the name fits well with gravity, I think it's quite similar to charger. Is it possible to switch to an element without this type of beater?

Also 5 for a 7|5 creature is cheap. The crumble ability is an added bonus, not something that will most likely ever be used immediately.
Title: Re: Crumbling Golem|Crumbling Colossus
Post by: EvilDeathX on April 04, 2013, 03:26:14 am
element specific works well. maybe the crumble can be other though.

while the name fits well with gravity, I think it's quite similar to charger. Is it possible to switch to an element without this type of beater?

Also 5 for a 7|5 creature is cheap. The crumble ability is an added bonus, not something that will most likely ever be used immediately.

I thought about making Crumble and "other" cost, but I don't remember why I didn't. Oh well, if I remember I will change it back. And now that I think about it, Gravity was a bad choice because I intended to make this of an element that didn't have any atk buffs, so that it would be more difficult to abuse its crumble. Maybe... Life? Not Water, not earth,(that has an excess of beaters already) Air wouldn't fit. I think it would only work in Aether or Time. Aether, because they have very little in way of beaters, and Time because it is literally an ancient golem attemting one last hurrah before crumbling into oblivion...

I don't really know, it would fill a gap in Aether which really lacks worthwhile creatures. But flavor accounted for, it should fit in Time.
I will ammend the original post with an untyped picture. Then I will post a poll for the viewers to vote on the element of this lug...
Title: Re: Crumbling Golem|Crumbling Colossus
Post by: blarp on April 04, 2013, 03:39:47 am
Personally Aether is my favorite element and phase recluse is a creature I've used for years :)

While I'm all in favor of aether getting more mid level creatures, I think time is more appropriate. There is a gap there I think that GoTP doesn't exactly fill.
Title: Re: Crumbling Golem|Crumbling Colossus
Post by: OdinVanguard on April 04, 2013, 06:16:55 pm
I personally like it as an :earth card for thematic reasons. I get the impression of a large animated statue made of stone that is slowly falling apart
Title: Re: Crumbling Golem|Crumbling Colossus
Post by: blarp on April 04, 2013, 08:19:42 pm
I personally like it as an :earth card for thematic reasons. I get the impression of a large animated statue made of stone that is slowly falling apart

Dont worry about theme, worry about balance :)
Title: Re: Crumbling Golem|Crumbling Colossus
Post by: OdinVanguard on April 05, 2013, 12:34:37 am
I personally like it as an :earth card for thematic reasons. I get the impression of a large animated statue made of stone that is slowly falling apart

Dont worry about theme, worry about balance :)
Considering that :earth is also free of attack buffs, which will mean crumble combos would force a duo, I think this should help keep its ability balanced

Without the crumble ability, it falls slightly under shrieker in terms of power and lacks burrow but makes up for it with improved HP.

Its attack and HP also both fall on values not occupied by other :earth creatures.

I think it should fit well in that element.
Title: Re: Crumbling Golem|Crumbling Colossus
Post by: deaththeryder on April 05, 2013, 12:59:25 am
i may not be as well known as  some of u guys but i hope u all see what i have to say. i think it should be earth because of the way it looks and because of its ability to crumble away. so um yeah........ :) :
Title: Re: Crumbling Golem|Crumbling Colossus
Post by: blarp on April 05, 2013, 03:13:47 am
looks UP now. attack buffs don't work too well with this guy. his hp is high enough I think you'd rather just wait the extra turn right? With a 7 quanta cost I think he's outclassed by earth golems.

hmmmmm what if it gains attack whenever a creature is burrowed.... Might be a separate card idea but be interesting with this one.
Title: Re: Crumbling Golem|Crumbling Colossus
Post by: EvilDeathX on April 05, 2013, 04:29:16 am
So, it seem we have almost unanimously decided that it should be earth. However, I will not align it with an element until the poll ends on the 7th...
Title: Re: Crumbling Golem|Crumbling Colossus
Post by: moomoose on April 05, 2013, 02:04:37 pm
its worth mentioning that you need to find new art for the card, just because someone uploaded a picture they liked to their photobucket account doesn't mean the copyright goes away.

also, take away the momentum portion of the card. it either takes away from gravity (if not a gravity card) or overlaps with charger (if a gravity card)
Title: Re: Crumbling Golem|Crumbling Colossus
Post by: Rutarete on April 05, 2013, 05:13:43 pm
Haven't looked at this for a while, but now I have to say that that art looks awesome for it! If you could get permission to use it, that would be great!
Title: Re: Crumbling Golem|Crumbling Colossus
Post by: blarp on April 06, 2013, 12:25:18 am
its worth mentioning that you need to find new art for the card, just because someone uploaded a picture they liked to their photobucket account doesn't mean the copyright goes away.

also, take away the momentum portion of the card. it either takes away from gravity (if not a gravity card) or overlaps with charger (if a gravity card)


awwh too bad art was good. What momentum portion?
Title: Re: Crumbling Golem|Crumbling Colossus
Post by: EvilDeathX on April 06, 2013, 06:27:45 am
its worth mentioning that you need to find new art for the card, just because someone uploaded a picture they liked to their photobucket account doesn't mean the copyright goes away.

also, take away the momentum portion of the card. it either takes away from gravity (if not a gravity card) or overlaps with charger (if a gravity card)

You have a valid point about the image, might you have anywhere to suggest. Also there is no Momentum anywhere on this card. Where do you see that?
Title: Re: Crumbling Golem|Crumbling Colossus
Post by: blarp on April 06, 2013, 06:34:22 am
its worth mentioning that you need to find new art for the card, just because someone uploaded a picture they liked to their photobucket account doesn't mean the copyright goes away.

also, take away the momentum portion of the card. it either takes away from gravity (if not a gravity card) or overlaps with charger (if a gravity card)

You have a valid point about the image, might you have anywhere to suggest. Also there is no Momentum anywhere on this card. Where do you see that?


I think he read unaffected by shards as unaffected by shields. Can't suggest a place for you to find art, other than from the community. Can look up open source golem artwork or something and maybe find something good.
Title: Re: Crumbling Golem|Crumbling Colossus
Post by: EvilDeathX on April 06, 2013, 07:43:50 am
its worth mentioning that you need to find new art for the card, just because someone uploaded a picture they liked to their photobucket account doesn't mean the copyright goes away.

also, take away the momentum portion of the card. it either takes away from gravity (if not a gravity card) or overlaps with charger (if a gravity card)

You have a valid point about the image, might you have anywhere to suggest. Also there is no Momentum anywhere on this card. Where do you see that?


I think he read unaffected by shards as unaffected by shields. Can't suggest a place for you to find art, other than from the community. Can look up open source golem artwork or something and maybe find something good.

That would make sense.
Title: Re: Crumbling Golem|Crumbling Colossus
Post by: moomoose on April 06, 2013, 06:04:12 pm
yeah, misread shards as shields.

posts about acceptible places to find/make card art:
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,34339.0.html
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,16655.msg480642.html#msg480642

one final piece of advice- the crumbling mechanic is pretty good, but i would only submit one of the three (creature, shield, or weapon) to the crucible, as if you submit all 3, it will probably have an adverse effect on the voting results for them.  it is easy to see how the mechanic could be implemented into a variety of vessels, but the core idea of crumbling remains the same and that is likely what, if anything, will be 'inspiring' to zanz should he implement the idea in some form or fashion.  so basically my advise boils down to not watering down the mechanic by making it into a series of sorts.  zanz has shown that if he likes an idea enough, he can implement it in a variety of ways if he so chooses.
Title: Re: Crumbling Golem|Crumbling Colossus
Post by: OdinVanguard on April 07, 2013, 01:19:07 am
yeah, misread shards as shields.

posts about acceptible places to find/make card art:
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,34339.0.html
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,16655.msg480642.html#msg480642

one final piece of advice- the crumbling mechanic is pretty good, but i would only submit one of the three (creature, shield, or weapon) to the crucible, as if you submit all 3, it will probably have an adverse effect on the voting results for them.  it is easy to see how the mechanic could be implemented into a variety of vessels, but the core idea of crumbling remains the same and that is likely what, if anything, will be 'inspiring' to zanz should he implement the idea in some form or fashion.  so basically my advise boils down to not watering down the mechanic by making it into a series of sorts.  zanz has shown that if he likes an idea enough, he can implement it in a variety of ways if he so chooses.
Good advice... although, wouldn't submitting the series make it easier for the community to vote on which version of the implementation they like most

E.g. It gives the community the chance to give feedback (via, voting, etc.) on whether they like the mechanic better as a weapon, shield, or creature?

This can give an important avenue for discussion which would provide useful feedback for Zanz.

Alternatively, you could post what you feel is your best one, but supply links to the others, and a poll at the top to let players voice there opinion that way.

That would also help keep from overcluttering the crucible polls.
Title: Re: Crumbling Golem|Crumbling Colossus
Post by: blarp on April 08, 2013, 02:57:41 am
yeah, misread shards as shields.

posts about acceptible places to find/make card art:
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,34339.0.html
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,16655.msg480642.html#msg480642

one final piece of advice- the crumbling mechanic is pretty good, but i would only submit one of the three (creature, shield, or weapon) to the crucible, as if you submit all 3, it will probably have an adverse effect on the voting results for them.  it is easy to see how the mechanic could be implemented into a variety of vessels, but the core idea of crumbling remains the same and that is likely what, if anything, will be 'inspiring' to zanz should he implement the idea in some form or fashion.  so basically my advise boils down to not watering down the mechanic by making it into a series of sorts.  zanz has shown that if he likes an idea enough, he can implement it in a variety of ways if he so chooses.

WHAT OTHER SECRETS DO YOU HAVE TO GET YOUR CARDS IN THE GAME MOOMOOSE?!
If I let you post all of my ideas will they make it into the game?
Title: Re: Crumbling Golem|Crumbling Colossus
Post by: blarp on April 15, 2013, 09:36:32 am
Bump!

Pretty sure this is considered spam by the way and frowned upon. Please discontinue this practice.
blarg: