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Offline XinefTopic starter

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Circle of Time / Circle of Ages https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3939.msg38251#msg38251
« on: March 14, 2010, 07:07:51 pm »
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Circle of Time: 15 :time
permanent
Whenever a creature or permanent is destroyed, it is shuffled back into its owners deck. (affects both players)

Circle of Ages: 12 :time
permanent
Whenever a creature or permanent is destroyed, it is shuffled back into its owners deck. (affects both players)


I just had an idea for another 'expensive card changing the situation quite a bit' like miracle and (possibly) fractal do. Also it would be another permanent affecting both players (like sundial and eclipse). And another way to prevent a deck-out (when you have 0 cards left, kill one of your creatures and you will draw it next turn as if rewinded. I also decided it should not work with spells, because 'rewinding' a miracle or antimatter all the time would be obviously OP. I guess the same goes for self-destructing permanents like sundial or dim shield, because infinite chaining of these should also not be possible.
I decided shuffling the card instead of putting it at the end of deck so that it makes any difference before you would normally deck out, and I thinks it improves balance.

Pros:
-Another way to protect permanents and creatures (if you lose a creature or permanent, you can hope to play it back some time later, if you survive long enough), so protects all creatures and permanents, but at the expense of having to wait until you draw it again and having to play it back.
-You can play a small rainbow without eternity (the only problem is you have to gather 12 :time, but you do not need 3 :time per turn afterwards).
-Nice synergy with hourglasses.
-You can fill your opponent's field with malignant cells and kill them to fill his deck with malignant cells (trick hard to pull of, and if your opponent has eg. 40 cards left when you do it, then it gives roughly 1/3 chance for him to draw a malignant cell instead of a card useful for him), on the other hand if he has very little cards left it won't harm him much either.
-The only way to destroy a card for good is to discard it (or change ownership through steal).

Cons:
-Very good target for deflag/destroy (not so for steal ;P )
-Unless your deck is designed around this card, it gives your opponent the same advantage it gives you.
-In a rainbow/duo/trio deck it is a late game card, so you may lose a number of creatures/permanents before you play it.
-In a mono time it may be a mid-game card, but I suppose it wouldn't be more powerful than a miracle in mono-light, or fractal in mono-aether.
-Can be used against you (someone mutates or aflatoxines your creatures, then kills them to clutter your deck)
-If you kill your opponent's creatures or destroy his permanents it increases his chance to draw a similar card.
-It cannot give you more creatures or permanents than you originally had (except deja vu, fireflys, malignant cells or mutants, but you can duplicate these even without circle)

Ok, anyone thinks this would be overpowered? When I think about it, the best combos I can think of would be to play it with a number of hourglasses and whenever your opponent kills your creatures, draw them again and play them (much more fuss than using quint, but 1 card to protect a number of creatures, and I think a bit harder to counter than anubis, also works against a fire shield, and protects permanents). The problem is gathering 12 :time with 6 hourglasses in your deck requires you to use hourglasses sparingly before you play it, and if your deck is designed around it you may need a number of circles to ensure one early, so your hand would be often cluttered with circles and hourglasses.
Another way to use it I can think of would be to fill your opponents deck with useless cards like malignant cells or mutants, but as I mentioned before, I think it would take some time to pull this trick off, and even if you do it only slows your opponent down, not stopping him entirely. And if he destroys your shield while he has a field full of malignant cells you may be in danger before you draw that shield once again, or draw some RoF or other mass control spell.
Generally I think it may be good for control decks that try to run quickly through all cards to setup, then deck out opponent or pull a one-trick-pony. I wonder if it would work with faster decks, though.


I will add some card art when I find some :time to do it ;) (EDIT: done, some random mayan calendar from google, so if need be, I could try making something more original with blender)
And the motto of this card is: "History repeats itself. History repeats itself."
May the force of the D4HK side be with U ^_^
:time samurai

-Samura-

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Re: Circle of Time / Circle of Ages https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3939.msg45088#msg45088
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2010, 01:48:38 pm »
i'm stopping on this 'cause this is one card that i remember whenever i go to this thread lol ... i think is a cool concept .. maybe the cost is too heavy? .. hmm .. i can point out 2 things:

- if there are 2 (in where else side..) in play than if there is quantum to play them again will be a close-cycle (maybe because of that the cost should be that heavy..)
- the game can end in a draw (if no one have, in the remaining cards, damage to kill the other, because of heals, etc)

anyways as i said i like the concept ... ^^

Offline XinefTopic starter

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Re: Circle of Time / Circle of Ages https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3939.msg45152#msg45152
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2010, 04:45:26 pm »
Draws are already possible when both players have eternity to keep them from decking out, but not enough damage to kill each other... though it's very improbable, most rainbows have growing damage and mono-time has little healing potential...
In such a case one of the players (or in PvE - the only player) has to quit... which one is decided by 'rage quit rule' :P (the less patient one)

Though the cost could indeed be lowered a little, I just copied stats of miracle.
In fact I think circle is less useful then it seems, unless your opponent has no hourglasses, you have a number of them, and you can kill at least two of his creatures each turn...
So maybe making it cheaper to cast, but have an upkeep cost would make it more balanced... this way it would be heavy on rainbows (upkeep cost in :time quanta would make it harder to use hourglasses), while in mono-time it would make the card less vulnerable to permanent destruction (you can play it back for a cheaper cost if it was destroyed, so you don't lose 12 :time simply because your opponent used deflag for 1 :fire ), while it would make it harder to play a devonian dragon each turn.

What do you think? Make it cost eg. 8 :time unupped 6 :time upped but both versions with an upkeep cost of 2 :time each turn?
Would it be better?

What I want to achieve with this card is to allow a new anti-deckout technique, which would allow you to use a different weapon than eternity in rainbows, and would give time some kind of unique permanent protection.
Also rainbows and :time :earth decks can PA it anyway, so it should not be overpowered when made indestructible, but it should still count as a permanent protection without PA, so it needs to 'work on itself' when it is destroyed. This way it is still useful to mono-time. Simply when your opponent destroys one he can permanently get rid of some of your creatures or other permanents, you can also get rid of his, then if you are lucky enough after drawing some cards you will get your circle back and restore your permanent protection. On the other hand if you PA it, you also lose the possibility to destroy it yourself, in case you find it is harming you more than your opponent (eg. he starts playing aflatoxin).

Also having an upkeep cost would make it less reasonable to have two or three circles in play at the same time, so you have to decide if it is worth spending 4 :time each turn just to make sure a single deflag is not enough.
May the force of the D4HK side be with U ^_^
:time samurai

-Samura-

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Re: Circle of Time / Circle of Ages https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3939.msg46450#msg46450
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2010, 04:02:16 am »
Draws are already possible when both players have eternity to keep them from decking out
.. not against AI 'cause he never rewind his owns... :| .. but CoT being a card with passive ability would get AI a possible a Draw.. (but would be very rare ...)


What I want to achieve with this card is to allow a new anti-deckout technique, which would allow you to use a different weapon than eternity in rainbows
... flying weapon + eternity + momentum + quint = one different weapon on the slot .. lol .. jk =] ..

well .. what can i say, i liked, i think it will open new deck strategies, sacrificing creatures (also opening new card ideas like immolation..) .. HGlass's + infinite virus/retrovirus ... HGlass's + untouchable infinite ball lightnings  ...

i say.. i would like to at least test that card ^^ ...

about the cost.. i think your idea 8 and 6 is good ... the +2/turn upkeep idk ...

Offline tyranim

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Re: Circle of Time / Circle of Ages https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3939.msg46459#msg46459
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2010, 04:35:05 am »
omg... this is an anti deck out card. already killing the just beginning rein of deck out decks. WHY THEM?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!... i was looking forward to the deck out era...
my milkshake brings all the boys to the yard and they're like "its better than yours" damn right, its better than yours! i can teach you but i'd have to charge!

Offline XinefTopic starter

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Re: Circle of Time / Circle of Ages https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3939.msg46566#msg46566
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2010, 12:21:46 pm »
Draws are already possible when both players have eternity to keep them from decking out
.. not against AI 'cause he never rewind his owns... :| .. but CoT being a card with passive ability would get AI a possible a Draw.. (but would be very rare ...)
Well... right now even if AI played a CoT, he would not be able to force a draw... because as long as you don't destroy his creatures nor permanents his deck size will not increase... Ok, if he had viruses or sparks... (and you cannot lobo or freeze a virus, or buff a spark ;P )... yes, a low probability of it happening, unless AI is taught to destroy his creatures when playing CoT

As for the cost+upkeep... I just think that a way to protect ALL your creatures and permanents with a single card should be expensive even if it protects your opponent too.

As for the 'deck out decks'... CoT is a time card... so if a player could play a CoT, he could also play eternity, so I guess deck out decks wouldn't be hurt that much...
Though I've seen some ideas for non-time anti-deck-out cards (eg. a weapon adding a skeleton on top of your deck) and I like some of these ideas ;) ... that would hurt anti-deck-out a lot more though.

PS.: unit748596, nice avatar... it somehow reminds me of Final Fantasy Tactics Advanced Blue Mage Thingy xD
May the force of the D4HK side be with U ^_^
:time samurai

Sengiratolom

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Re: Circle of Time / Circle of Ages https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3939.msg46654#msg46654
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2010, 03:34:37 pm »
falen druid+ oty both quinted and this?

morph oponents creature, eat it when its a element the oponent cant play (or when the ability is dangerous) if not eat something else

or quint oty+RoL and this, no more eternity needed.

virus+this? only needs 2 of them and you have an endless cycle of infecting the oponent, who will have a hard time drawing anything but the creatures you just killed.

combining this with octanes deck?, endless exploding bottles

Offline XinefTopic starter

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Re: Circle of Time / Circle of Ages https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3939.msg46710#msg46710
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2010, 05:26:31 pm »
falen druid+ oty both quinted and this?

morph oponents creature, eat it when its a element the oponent cant play (or when the ability is dangerous) if not eat something else

or quint oty+RoL and this, no more eternity needed.

virus+this? only needs 2 of them and you have an endless cycle of infecting the oponent, who will have a hard time drawing anything but the creatures you just killed.

combining this with octanes deck?, endless exploding bottles
As for octanes, I already mentioned it does not work on permanents with time limit (sundials and phase shields) so unstable gas is obviously another card on the list... (though air nymph is an easier way to produce endless exploding bottles, and cheaper)

virus - either neutralize the virus (lobo, mutation, freeze, basilisk blood), or kill them the turn they are played (devour, eagle eye, rewind). Even if you cannot, being plagued once each turn is still survivable - try playing against a thorn carapace and you will see it's a hard experience, but you can still win, it's not an instant-win card. Also this combo works only in late game, so before that you have plenty of time to take control of the field or kill opponent.

quint oty+RoL and this, no more eternity needed - that's one of the main reasons I designed this card ;) I like eternity a lot, but I guess people who like pulvy, or fahrenheit, or eagle eye, or whatever should also be able to use it against FG, even without eternity

falen druid+ oty - this is one of the combos possible with this card... the question is, is it really much better than a quinted oty + fallen druid WITHOUT CoT? Yes, you force your opponent to draw cards he cannot play, but in early game the probability is low, and in late game it might make a bigger difference, but this is understandable - you used an additional card to make a combo more powerful ;)




I think a battle against a time-rainbow could be interesting... mutate his (unquinted) creatures until you get 8 dragons of the same element (if you mutate into immortal/burrowed creature, kill it with a thorn carapace), then kill those dragons (ok, better start killing them before there are 8 ), and watch him forced to discard them, because he has not enough quantum generated to play a dragon each turn... MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA *daemonic laughter* MWAHAHA... Ha.. ha... oh, he has a fallen druid... and can use it to re-morph the dragons... ;(
oh wait... you kill his druid with the thorn carapace :D ... YaY!!!111!!! ... unless he momentums it... :( ...

As you can see this card would make many interesting battles possible ;)



I just got an idea for a pretty powerful deck... probably
:life mark
10 time pillars
6 deja vu
4 circle of time
6 hourglass
4 emerald pillars
6 feral bond
2 thorn carapace
1 spark

or something along these lines... play a CoT, spam deja vus and bonds, so that you have some impressive healing, don't worry about deflags and creature control, deja vus can be in fact replicated if opponent kills them after they split.
The spark is to prevent a deck out if opponent decides not to kill deja vus.
If he plays a shield that blocks 2 damage... deck him out... (ok, I'm thinking of making a rainbow variant with momentumed adrenalined quinted deja vu for 24 momentumed protected damage, or with PU for 48 momentumed unprotected damage, or PU+2 quints for... <jabba jabba jabba>)
May the force of the D4HK side be with U ^_^
:time samurai

Offline tinkady

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Re: Circle of Time / Circle of Ages https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3939.msg89284#msg89284
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2010, 09:43:17 am »
if we're giving time creature/permanent control, how about it's a single play card? could be for creatures perms or both, and it gives it the 'when destroyed is shuffled back into deck/is put as top card as deck' effect either permanently or for one time

Lifestream

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Re: Circle of Time / Circle of Ages https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3939.msg103539#msg103539
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2010, 04:13:24 am »
This makes it almost impossible to deck out XP

actionjack

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Re: Circle of Time / Circle of Ages https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3939.msg103576#msg103576
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2010, 05:25:47 am »
Great Idea!

But its balanceness is beyond my little brain to determain. 

 

blarg: