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Offline PineappleTopic starter

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Ring of Echoes | Ring of Echoes https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47073.msg1044643#msg1044643
« on: February 20, 2013, 08:54:04 pm »
NAME:
Ring of Echoes
ELEMENT:
Aether
COST:
4 :aether
TYPE:
Permanent
ATK|HP:

TEXT:
:aether :aether :aether : Feedback
If your opponent played more than 1 card this turn, Silence them for 1 turn.
NAME:
Ring of Echoes
ELEMENT:
Aether
COST:
4 :aether
TYPE:
Permanent
ATK|HP:

TEXT:
:aether :aether : Feedback
If your opponent played more than 1 card this turn, Silence them for 1 turn.

ART:
OdinVanguard
IDEA:
pineapple
NOTES:
V2: Cost raised from 3 to 4. Theme changed, art added. Generic he changed to singular they.

"this turn" means your opponent's turn that just ended.
SERIES:

« Last Edit: November 13, 2013, 01:21:47 pm by Pineapple »

Offline Hyroen

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Re: Card Watcher | Card Watcher https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47073.msg1044654#msg1044654
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2013, 09:26:24 pm »
You might want to change the word "him" to "them" or something a little more neutral.
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Offline PineappleTopic starter

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Re: Card Watcher | Card Watcher https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47073.msg1044661#msg1044661
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2013, 09:51:54 pm »
You might want to change the word "him" to "them" or something a little more neutral.

Huh, I was always under the impression that the "generic they" was a colloquial degenerate of the "plural they" whose use over the "generic he" is not widely accepted.
I guess times have changed.

I'll update it on my next card revision. Anything on the mechanic itself?

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Re: Card Watcher | Card Watcher https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47073.msg1044711#msg1044711
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2013, 11:36:04 pm »
*Seeing this, Fractal cries in a corner*
*After witnessing the pathetic fractal, OTK killed himself*

This card has so much potential to screw the game over! And by that, I just mean it drastically affects game-changing moments. I wouldn't use it if the ability cost was any higher, but I think it might need a +1 to playing cost though.
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Offline PineappleTopic starter

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Re: Card Watcher | Card Watcher https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47073.msg1044760#msg1044760
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2013, 02:12:25 am »
*Seeing this, Fractal cries in a corner*
*After witnessing the pathetic fractal, OTK killed himself*

Hm? After you use Fractal, you usually have no more cards to play anyways since you have an army on the field... 1 turn of Silence doesn't really change much.

And this can't even be used against OTKs, except maybe in the beginning.

Offline PineappleTopic starter

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Re: Card Watcher | Card Watcher https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47073.msg1108926#msg1108926
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2013, 11:39:55 am »
Bump. Any more feedback, or follow-ups to points previously brought up?

Offline dragtom

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Re: Card Watcher | Card Watcher https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47073.msg1109032#msg1109032
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2013, 11:33:03 pm »
you might want to change 'this turn' to 'next turn', to allow the opponent to actually choose to play multiple cards or not.
The way it is right now, you simply don't use the ability if the opponent uses 1 card, making it very cheap.

If this would make it underpowered, you can go simply with -1 ability cost.
be quick- time is quanta.

Offline Higurashi

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Re: Card Watcher | Card Watcher https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47073.msg1109110#msg1109110
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2013, 09:09:52 am »
Balanced Silence on a stick is nice, but the name breaks the 4th wall. Cards represent spells cast by Elementals using Quanta. This is a permanent and it prevents spells from being cast when too many have been cast, which implies it builds up energy from cast spells to either forcibly silence the opposing Elemental OR to create a zone in which their magic is null.

Since this can only be activated after conditions have been met, it seems like it's a machine with a sensor and something akin to a lightning rod (in that it gathers the energies from cast spells). I'm all out of creative juice right now, but I'll think of a name soon enough.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2013, 09:12:59 am by Higurashi »
:aether  http://elementscommunity.org/forum/guilds/991-thunderbolts-ho!-991/ :aether
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Offline OdinVanguard

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Re: Card Watcher | Card Watcher https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47073.msg1109222#msg1109222
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2013, 11:14:35 pm »
Balanced Silence on a stick is nice, but the name breaks the 4th wall. Cards represent spells cast by Elementals using Quanta. This is a permanent and it prevents spells from being cast when too many have been cast, which implies it builds up energy from cast spells to either forcibly silence the opposing Elemental OR to create a zone in which their magic is null.

Since this can only be activated after conditions have been met, it seems like it's a machine with a sensor and something akin to a lightning rod (in that it gathers the energies from cast spells). I'm all out of creative juice right now, but I'll think of a name soon enough.
How about: "Feedback Ring" as a card name?
... If you go with something along those lines, you can use one of these art images if you want. They would fit that theme very nicely:

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Offline ChemMan13

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Re: Card Watcher | Card Watcher https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47073.msg1109240#msg1109240
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2013, 04:02:31 am »
So theoretically, if this in in play, and you have the quanta to use this card (only every other turn) the opponent can only play one card per turn, or only play cards every other turn? An turn one or two one of these would mean that the opponent has to decide if he/she wants to play more than one card (a pillar most likely) or not play the next round. It would be far too easy to completely shut down your opponent to the point of not playing anything. I suggest that this card only be activated by only monsters and spells as this would be very overpowered especially in unupped play as pillars would cripple a deck. Would the effects of this card stack? If so, could the opponent be silenced for more than one turn in a row? I don't want to seem hostile toward this card, but it is far too controlling, for such a low cost repeatable use card, and i suggest a major nerf of this idea if it is too be taken seriously in card development.

Offline PineappleTopic starter

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Re: Ring of Echoes | Ring of Echoes https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47073.msg1109292#msg1109292
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2013, 01:46:04 pm »
V2 Marker.

@OdinVanguard: I hope you don't mind the liberties I took with the card art. Don't hesitate to correct how I've credited you in the table.

@dragtom: An initial cost of 3 quanta to do nothing but sit there is not "really cheap"; it's quite a big waste of quanta and deck space. While making it affect the next turn instead of the previous turn would lead to a little more strategy in choosing whether to activate the card or save quanta, in most viable decks that would run this card the ability cost would only serve as an upkeep. The thing is that on average no more than 20% of an opponent's turns have them playing more than one card, and that's including the first two turns that this card probably won't come out during. I'd argue that because this card can rarely use its effect, it can't handle the burden of a pseudo-upkeep. Also, even on the turns where this card does end up silencing your opponent, you're not doing much (see the general note below).

@ChemMan13: Note that most decks after the first turn have only 2 cards left in their hand, and most decks only draw 1 card per turn. It is highly unlikely that the opponent will consistently have more than 1 card to play per turn for a string of consecutive turns, given that after a single turn of playing maybe 3-4 cards most decks would be physically unable to play more than 1 card per turn.



There are 2 things about this card that make it weak in general.

1. It has drawbacks that the spell Silence doesn't have, other than being a permanent ability (affected by summoning stasis and PC). It cannot be chained alone, because if the opponent is silenced, then he plays 0 cards that turn, and so the opponent cannot be silenced by this card for the next turn. At a bare minimum the opponent can only be silenced once every other turn. Denial cards are horrendously less effective if they cannot be consistently chained, because unlike control cards they do nothing to the threat. Imagine if Black Hole, Discord, or Devourer only worked once every other turn as as a group. In fact, morso than it being unable to be chained, this card cannot even activate until after your opponent has laid out the threat. This card sucks in the one thing it does: denial.

2. The decks that this card works best against are not easily affected by this card. Namely:

Fractal Decks: The usual routine is the Fractal, play all copies of the creature in your hand, and feel the quanta scarcity next turn. Even if you were to Silence the opponent right after they play all their creatures, they probably wouldn't have enough quanta to Fractal again anyways. Many Fractal decks have a 2-turn rhythm anyways, and this card would minimally affect those. And even if you do Silence the opponent, that doesn't stop the army of attackers from beating your face in.

TimeBows and your generic SN Domin: This is my personal opinion, but I believe that most heavy-draw Timebows gain card advantage not so they can dump a bunch of cards in one turn if they wanted to, but because they want a large range of spells to use at any time. Sure, they also want to dump creatures and permanents with useful abilities, but that also doesn't help this card. Even if you silence the opponent after they dump a bunch of pillars, a quinted otyugh, and a protected pulvy/eternity, he'll probably still be able to respond with abilities alone.

Immolation/Cremation and assorted Rainbow Rush Decks: This card does nothing against big monsters in your face.

Combo decks like RT-Ghostmare, Neuro Decks, Flying Weapon decks: This card does nothing against a hand full of ghosts, 80 poison counters, and Titans being thrown at you.

And another note is that all these decks that you would use this card against have extreme hand or quanta advantage, insofar as they have been deemed overpowered for a very long time (Fractal, Supernova, Immolation). If this card affects the meta at all, then can you call it "breaking", or should you call it "healing"?

 

anything
blarg: