Elements the Game Forum - Free Online Fantasy Card Game
Elements the Game => Card Ideas and Art => Topic started by: Ragorak2 on December 15, 2009, 10:09:49 pm
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Time
Time Warp
Cost: 1 time quantam
effect: draw 2 cards
Death
Poison spike
cost: 2 death quantams
effect: put 5 poison counters on target creature
Water
Deep Freeze
cost:7
effect:freeze all enemy creatures
Life
Life Force
cost 2
effect:all damage dealt to target creature is prevented by 1 damage for each creature you control
Earth
tremors
cost 4
effect: deal 2 damage to all non-air enemy creatures
Darkness
Theif
cost 5
creature: 1/1
skill: pay 3 darkness quantams, steal target permanant
Fire
Sacrifice
cost 1
effect: sacrifice target creature you control, deal damage equal to twice the sacrificed creatures attack to a single target
light
healing light
cost 5
effect: heal all creatures you control to maximum health and cure all poison that may be on them.
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Simple, elegant. With a bit of tweaking, these could be very good cards to add in a later patch. =D
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Very nice ideas. Good job.
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Poison is for players, infection is what you'll find on critters.
Time Warp might need a cost increase.
Sacrifice might be difficult to implement (double targeting).
I have no idea what Life Force is supposed to be or do. Could you clarify that?
Deep Freeze and Thief might be a bit too strong (but probably not).
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Time Warp is phenomenally broken - every deck would just run Mark of Time and have six of these babies as well as Electrum Hourglasses and Sundials, for more card advantage than you can shake a stick at. It needs the cost revising upwards or perhaps have it draw only a single card (still powerful, but less broken).
Otherwise these suggestions aren't bad, though.
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Time Warp is phenomenally broken - every deck would just run Mark of Time and have six of these babies as well as Electrum Hourglasses and Sundials, for more card advantage than you can shake a stick at. It needs the cost revising upwards or perhaps have it draw only a single card (still powerful, but less broken).
Otherwise these suggestions aren't bad, though.
I think you misunderstood. OP probably meant that card to be one time use only, not a permanent like Hourglass.
There are these "draw 2 cards" cards in almost every CCG and they are not overpowered. You see even though you draw 2 cards, you have to use one card to do it, so basically you are drawing only one extra card.
Yeah, and about that Deep Freeze. It's totally OP. Just imagine a water deck with 6 x Congeal and 6 x Deep Freeze. Opponents characters would be totally shut down. If you upped the cost to like 10 or something then yeah, I could see it work. OR if the freeze lasted less than 4 turns.
With that Thief I would make a Time/Darkness deck with 3 x Anubis and 6 x Thief. Then just make that Thief immortal and enjoy my victory :)
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Actually, I'm not misreading. Here's my thought process:
Decks get more powerful and consistent the fewer cards they contain, since you can get to your most powerful cards sooner. This is true for most CCGs. Having card draw in your deck is massively powerful, as we know (imagine your rainbow without any, for example). Cheap card draw is even more powerful. That card, as written, allows you to draw three cards for the cost of one draw and a single time quantum. Regardless that it's single use, you could stick six of them in virtually any deck of 30 along with a Mark of Time, and go to town.
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Actually, I'm not misreading. Here's my thought process:
Decks get more powerful and consistent the fewer cards they contain, since you can get to your most powerful cards sooner. This is true for most CCGs. Having card draw in your deck is massively powerful, as we know (imagine your rainbow without any, for example). Cheap card draw is even more powerful. That card, as written, allows you to draw three cards for the cost of one draw and a single time quantum. Regardless that it's single use, you could stick six of them in virtually any deck of 30 along with a Mark of Time, and go to town.
It allows you to draw TWO cards for the cost of one draw and a single time quantum. So basically you pay 1 time quantum to draw one extra card. Just like Hourglass, only this can be used only once.
Also you have to take into consideration the possibility of decking out. With smaller decks like 30, it's sometimes a bad thing to draw many cards. Unless you have (protected) Eternity you might easily deck out if the opponent has a lot of defense.
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Sacrifice might be difficult to implement (double targeting).
I have no idea what Life Force is supposed to be or do. Could you clarify that?
basically for life force, you know how shields have prevent one damage to a player from all sources, well life force will work as preventing X damage to a creature where X is the ammount of creatures you control, except instead of preventing damage from creatures, it should prevent damage from spells and poison(maybe).
sacrifice shouldnt be too dificult to implement, because the moment you sacrifice the creature, it should be dead so you cant sacrifice it again. i think it would mostly be used as a means of bypassing a shield if desperately needed, but having the flexibility of taking out creatures as well
Yeah, and about that Deep Freeze. It's totally OP. Just imagine a water deck with 6 x Congeal and 6 x Deep Freeze. Opponents characters would be totally shut down. If you upped the cost to like 10 or something then yeah, I could see it work. OR if the freeze lasted less than 4 turns.
and i agree it would be a little OP, i would probably prefer the freeze to last 2 turns, with the upgraded version being 3
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I think that all these cards are wonderful, except they are all too cheap! Because the way your thinking, these would be BIG and BADASS cards if played. and big, badass cards need a hefty price to pay.
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Actually, I'm not misreading. Here's my thought process:
Decks get more powerful and consistent the fewer cards they contain, since you can get to your most powerful cards sooner. This is true for most CCGs. Having card draw in your deck is massively powerful, as we know (imagine your rainbow without any, for example). Cheap card draw is even more powerful. That card, as written, allows you to draw three cards for the cost of one draw and a single time quantum. Regardless that it's single use, you could stick six of them in virtually any deck of 30 along with a Mark of Time, and go to town.
It allows you to draw TWO cards for the cost of one draw and a single time quantum. So basically you pay 1 time quantum to draw one extra card. Just like Hourglass, only this can be used only once.
Also you have to take into consideration the possibility of decking out. With smaller decks like 30, it's sometimes a bad thing to draw many cards. Unless you have (protected) Eternity you might easily deck out if the opponent has a lot of defense.
I think you missed that second part, I've extended the highlighting. You're burning three cards into your deck for the price of one draw. That's two extra cards, but you can then factor in the third when you're looking at the draw probabilities for the remainder of your deck. In terms of card advantage, this is massive. Hourglass is a different beast entirely because it's slower, it's vastly more quantum-intensive and (though this is trivial) can be destroyed.
Granted you do run the chance of decking out with only 30 cards. But this is still powerful in any deck, not just small ones. Think how much you would kill to have this card in your Rainbow deck.
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Daxx, to put the card in perspective, its basically a sundial without the stasis, and you dont get a choice if you want to draw the cards or not. however for the cost its kinda hard to tell when you cant actually play it, but i honestly wouldnt be surprised if it got upped to 2 or even 3 time quantams, but the effect itself is fine
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Oh, the effect isn't a problem. It was the cost that I was worried about.
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Change the activation cost of 'Thief' to 3 life instead of 3 quantum. It'd be more synergistic with darkness gaining life all the time. It'd match the darkness theme and match the power of the ability.
EDIT: P.S. I love Sacrifice and Deep Freeze.
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Actually, I'm not misreading. Here's my thought process:
Decks get more powerful and consistent the fewer cards they contain, since you can get to your most powerful cards sooner. This is true for most CCGs. Having card draw in your deck is massively powerful, as we know (imagine your rainbow without any, for example). Cheap card draw is even more powerful. That card, as written, allows you to draw three cards for the cost of one draw and a single time quantum. Regardless that it's single use, you could stick six of them in virtually any deck of 30 along with a Mark of Time, and go to town.
It allows you to draw TWO cards for the cost of one draw and a single time quantum. So basically you pay 1 time quantum to draw one extra card. Just like Hourglass, only this can be used only once.
Also you have to take into consideration the possibility of decking out. With smaller decks like 30, it's sometimes a bad thing to draw many cards. Unless you have (protected) Eternity you might easily deck out if the opponent has a lot of defense.
I think you missed that second part, I've extended the highlighting. You're burning three cards into your deck for the price of one draw. That's two extra cards, but you can then factor in the third when you're looking at the draw probabilities for the remainder of your deck. In terms of card advantage, this is massive. Hourglass is a different beast entirely because it's slower, it's vastly more quantum-intensive and (though this is trivial) can be destroyed.
Granted you do run the chance of decking out with only 30 cards. But this is still powerful in any deck, not just small ones. Think how much you would kill to have this card in your Rainbow deck.
I didn't miss that part. In fact I used the same exact wording.
I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. I don't get where you get this "three cards". The card in question would give you TWO CARDS. You use one card, you draw 2 new cards. That's only 1 extra card (because you used one you had previously).
Lets say I have 7 cards. One of them is Time Warp and I'm using it by paying time quantum. I draw 2 new cards. Now I have 7 - 1 + 2 = 8 cards.
I had 7 cards, now I have 8. That's one extra card. Where is the huge advantage?
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I'm not sure how to explain this any other way. Okay, lets say I have 10 cards in my deck. I draw Time Warp (9 cards) and play it (7 cards). For one draw, I have just gone three cards into my deck, and three cards closer to my shiny dragon that is sitting on the bottom.
The advantage lies in drawing through your deck phenomenally fast, not in card advantage for cards held in-hand.
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I'm not sure how to explain this any other way. Okay, lets say I have 10 cards in my deck. I draw Time Warp (9 cards) and play it (7 cards). For one draw, I have just gone three cards into my deck, and three cards closer to my shiny dragon that is sitting on the bottom.
The advantage lies in drawing through your deck phenomenally fast, not in card advantage for cards held in-hand.
I don't get it.. You still need quantum to pay for that shiny dragon. And there is 8 card hand limit so drawing as fast as you can, is sometimes a bad thing.
This card would be not that different from Sundial really. Only difference is that you would get those cards faster and you would have no defense like Sundial has.
If you think that this card would be overpowered then answer me this: why do all the CCG's have a similar "play card, draw to cards" type of card? Why is Elements so special that in THIS game it's overpowered?
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Never mind, I don't think I'm going to explain this to you properly.
Other games have cards like this. They are balanced with appropriate costs. This one isn't, as written.
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Never mind, I don't think I'm going to explain this to you properly.
Other games have cards like this. They are balanced with appropriate costs. This one isn't, as written.
Up the cost, problem solved.
hmm.. I believe Netrunner has a card like this that costs nothing to use. But I'd have to check to make sure.
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Wow... Netrunner...
Completely forgot about that game!
I think I have some of those cards somewhere burried in a box in my basement :)
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Time Warp is phenomenally broken - every deck would just run Mark of Time and have six of these babies as well as Electrum Hourglasses and Sundials, for more card advantage than you can shake a stick at. It needs the cost revising upwards or perhaps have it draw only a single card (still powerful, but less broken).
Otherwise these suggestions aren't bad, though.
The fact that you think a one-use card that allows you to pay to draw one card--the card that you would have gotten instead of it had you not included the first card in the first place--would be powerful completely invalidates any arguments you could possibly make.
"oh my god he can draw 3 cards in one turn" is not a big freaking deal when you consider that if you look at it like that, one of those cards does absolutely nothing but cost you quanta. All it does is let you pay 1 quantum to get a 1 card advantage. Yes, it's strong, but so are the majority of spell cards in the game.
I'm not sure how to explain this any other way. Okay, lets say I have 10 cards in my deck. I draw Time Warp (9 cards) and play it (7 cards). For one draw, I have just gone three cards into my deck, and three cards closer to my shiny dragon that is sitting on the bottom.
The advantage lies in drawing through your deck phenomenally fast, not in card advantage for cards held in-hand.
Again: If you simply did not have the Time Warp in your deck, you would have had a deck of 9 cards, drawn one, and had 8, and without the 1 time quantum cost. You don't draw some blank card in place of Time Warp that does nothing and was only serving to make you take longer to reach the last card, you draw the one that would have been after it.
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The fact that you think a one-use card that allows you to pay to draw one card--the card that you would have gotten instead of it had you not included the first card in the first place--would be powerful completely invalidates any arguments you could possibly make.
Decks have a minimum of 30 cards. Include six of these (modified so that they draw one card instead of two) in a 30 card deck and you effectively have a deck of 24 cards, for the price of a few time quanta. Therefore, for every other card in the deck the probability of drawing it is higher - you can therefore run a deck much more consistently with more powerful cards.
I feel like I'm bashing my head against a brick wall here. Is this really so hard to understand?
I prefer Scaredgirl's solution of upping the cost, though.
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Decks have a minimum of 30 cards. Include six of these (modified so that they draw one card instead of two) in a 30 card deck and you effectively have a deck of 24 cards, for the price of a few time quanta. Therefore, for every other card in the deck the probability of drawing it is higher - you can therefore run a deck much more consistently with more powerful cards.
I feel like I'm bashing my head against a brick wall here. Is this really so hard to understand?
I prefer Scaredgirl's solution of upping the cost, though.
While smaller decks are better, at some point they will be TOO small.
Lets say you have this 24 card deck. What kind of deck would you build?
Remember you have to be able to..
1. Not to die
2. Do enough damage to kill your opponent
3. Not to deck out.
Can you do this with only 24 cards?
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I'm sure you would be able to do it, if anyone could. With 24 cards, could you design a deck that could kill within 17 draws, given that you know you're likely to be drawing every card in the deck? I bet it's possible.
The potential for a deck to too small aside, my point stands - the consistency at least will be improved and that's the point I was trying to make. As written it was even worse since it could then be applied to any deck to improve consistency, including everything up to 60 cards. Reducing the number of draws would make it potentially appropriate in some situations, and not in others - which is what we're looking for in card design, right?
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To understand daxx's point, Imagine a card that cost ZERO and made you draw ONE card. Now think about it a little.
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From what I see, both Daxx and Scaredgirl have different views of the same card. By view, I don't mean an opinion, but I mean a way that they look at it.
For Daxx, making it draw only one card would give you a two card advantage in terms of drawing, since you'll draw the card for the turn, and then draw another for playing it. If you put six of these into a 30 card deck, then drawing one would pretty much be like losing 1 time quanta on the turn to have your deck size reduced by 1. So, the deck would, in essence, be only 24 cards, which gives the user a HUGE card advantage in terms of speed. However, with a larger deck, leaving the card out would be the same as playing it, since you only draw one card.
With Scaredgirl, she's seeing it as having a card advantage with larger decks. Drawing two cards means that you draw the card you would've drawn if not for the draw card spell, and then you draw another one, which is the prime advantage. Indeed it's standard in many TCG games.
Brainstorm, from Magic: "Draw three cards, then put two cards back on top of the deck" for only one mana. Sirum Visions: "Draw a card, then look at the top two cards of your deck and put one or both on top or bottom of the deck in any order" for one mana. It's a viable card, though I do think that if something like that WERE released, we would need many more cards, so that there are new strategies, and the advantage would be less skewed.
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The Cnidarian has it. ;D
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To understand daxx's point, Imagine a card that cost ZERO and made you draw ONE card. Now think about it a little.
How will that make me understand Daxx's point? What you said here, is exactly what I am saying. :)
Lose one, draw one.. nothing happens. When you lose one card and draw two, that's basically drawing only ONE card, which is what I have been saying all a long. What this card would do is let you draw 1 extra card for the cost of 1 quantum. So it's basically the same thing that Sundial does.
I would understand Daxx's point if there was some invincible 24 card deck that you could design, but I just don't see how it would be possible with the cards we have now. You would pretty much have to take Eternity in order not to deck out, and that would mean you have to take either Quantum or Time Towers. There is nothing in Time that would make you invincible and with small rainbow you will run out of characters fast.
I would probably go with super fast 24 card rainbow deck with 6 Supernovas and mark of Entropy, but I don't see how that would be invincible. If the opponent has a lot of defense I would deck out for sure.
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Daxx, I think your arugment is more effective in other card games, elements already comes very very close to a mimimum playable deck size, I don't know if this card really has the advantage you think it does. Then again maybe i'm just incompetent and don't know enough about deck building. Either way, the cost needs to go up to 2 mana. If I draw 6 of those in my inital hand, being able to play one per turn is too powerful.
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well i beleive there was a card on mtg that cost 1 and you could draw 3 cards, ancestoral recall i beleive, but it was later too powerful due to the ncreasing ammount of cards. 2 isnt nearly as powerful, as you only gain half as many cards, (3-1=2, and 2-1=1, 1 is half as much as 2), plus elements has nowhere near the ammount of cards as mtg so i doubt it will be overpowered. anyways with 30 cards, and 6 of time warp, that should make it really seem more like a 18 card deck, and with having 8 cards in your starting hand, you really only have 10 turns, and that isnt alot of time to kill someone, so time warp really wont be overpowered unless it comes out when zanz has tons and tons of cards
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Ancestral Recall is one of the Power Nine, so... "too powerful" is only barely scratching the surface. Even brainstorm is restricted...
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Ancestral Recall is one of the Power Nine, so... "too powerful" is only barely scratching the surface. Even brainstorm is restricted...
The Power Nine, a set of nine very powerful cards from the earlier sets of Magic: The Gathering, range in price from $400 to $2000 for EACH card, depending on which one it is (just for players who don't know what they are).
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Wasn't Ancestral recall a card that let you recycle your graveyard into your deck?
Or could just be my failing memory :D
Edit- Nevermind, googled it!
I have one of those :)