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Bright Side | Silver Lining https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18949.msg241668#msg241668
« on: January 06, 2011, 04:03:04 pm »
NAME:
Bright Side
ELEMENT:
Light
COST:
4 :light
TYPE:
Permanent
TEXT:
When the status of a creature under your control changes, this card generates  :light and 1 quantum matching your mark
NAME:
Silver Lining
ELEMENT:
Light
COST:
4 :light
TYPE:
Permanent
TEXT:
When a creature or weapon damages your HP, this card generates  :light and 1 quantum matching your mark
ART:
Jennifer Renee/Graur Codrin (www.freedigitalphotos.net)
IDEA:
StudioSeraphim
NOTES:
These cards provide a source of quanta that can be played alongside or as an alternative to regular pillars/pendulums, and also, as the name implies, provide an upside to taking damage/status effects.

Bright Side will generate one  :light quantum and one quantum matching your mark every time (this can occur multiple times per turn) one of your creatures is affected by any of the following status changes: Freeze, Infection, Momentum, Burrow, Adrenaline, Delay, Gravity Pull, Devour or Quintessence. Effects or spells not listed will not trigger this permanent’s ability.

Its upgraded form, Silver Lining, has the same ability with a different trigger condition. Instead of status changes to your creatures, SL is activated every time an enemy creature/weapon launches a successful attack i.e. causes damage to your HP. Again, the effects the cumulative, but are based upon the number of times damage is taken, rather than the strength of those attacks.

The cards could form an effective combo with Miracle, or in an FFQ deck with Rustlers and a Life mark, or could be used to give you an edge when facing decks like Mono Entropy, which tend to use a lot of Pandemoniums etc. I’m not set on the costs, and I’m unsure if those I have suggested are sufficiently balanced for the game at the moment, so suggestions on that would be much appreciated. Thoughts?

Offline Werdbooty

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Re: Bright Side | Silver Lining https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18949.msg241690#msg241690
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2011, 04:37:01 pm »
I was just thinking of a Light card akin to this last night. Good show! As for the card itself, it looks ready, tho I might think of decreasing the cost and dropping the "and 1 quantum matching your mark." Maybe :light :light is produced instead? Like, I said, this is all stuff I was going over last night. :light generation can be a tricky thing to balance, yet still keep the card uselful.
"A kind of synthesis, but with some elements that perhaps you wouldn't have expected in advance. I always like that when that happens, when something comes that is more than the sum of the parts." —Evan Parker

Re: Bright Side | Silver Lining https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18949.msg241709#msg241709
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2011, 04:59:59 pm »
Thanks for the feedback!

I'm not sure if removing the quantum generation based on your mark would be a smart move, though. I hadn't really pictured the cards as useful solely to Light users, as they would be if their only purpose was to generate Light quanta, and I think only generating quanta of your own alignment might be a slightly underpowered ability. Not meaning to dump all over your suggestion lol, but I think the dual quanta generation is a solid premise already.

If that were the case and the ability were to remain unchanged, would you still consider dropping the costs? I think 4 :light is a fairly reasonable cost, considering the usefulness to decks of all builds, who may not have access to a lot of  :light. If you think it needs changing though, I'll be happy to alter it to someting more balanced.

Offline Werdbooty

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Re: Bright Side | Silver Lining https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18949.msg241716#msg241716
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2011, 05:17:30 pm »
lol I just use alot of Light quanta in my decks, hence the suggestion.

As it stands, I think the card is quite balanced. The cost should definitely remain the same if the 2 quanta generation stays. If you really want me to nitpick (it's what I do), I'd almost want to see if the unupped version would pay off more in the long run (quanta-wise). eg; how often does a creature's status change during the course of a match? Perhaps a swap between the unupped & upped versions? Just suggestions, mind you!

Otherwise, looks great! See what the curators say  :)
"A kind of synthesis, but with some elements that perhaps you wouldn't have expected in advance. I always like that when that happens, when something comes that is more than the sum of the parts." —Evan Parker

Re: Bright Side | Silver Lining https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18949.msg241721#msg241721
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2011, 05:33:29 pm »
Nitpicking is good, it homes in on the weak points and shows where more work is needed!

I don't actually know which would be classed as 'more useful' - I guess it depends on what sort of deck you're facing. I can't speak for the False Gods, because I haven't fought any yet. But in most matches I've fought vs. AI3 and T50, I've been attacked a lot more overall than I've been statusbombed. I haven't done any proper research into that, but I'd probably say that attacks = quanta would generate the most. But the upside to Bright Side is that you can trigger it yourself by playing cards like Momentum, Adrenaline, Basilisk Blood etc.

So you reckon this is ready to be nominated for the Crucible, or is there anything you'd change?

Offline Werdbooty

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Re: Bright Side | Silver Lining https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18949.msg241746#msg241746
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2011, 06:08:56 pm »
You could try nominating, just to see what the higher ups have to say. They usually catch things the community misses.
"A kind of synthesis, but with some elements that perhaps you wouldn't have expected in advance. I always like that when that happens, when something comes that is more than the sum of the parts." —Evan Parker

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Re: Bright Side | Silver Lining https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18949.msg241758#msg241758
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2011, 06:20:34 pm »
Looks nice. A nice variation of Solar Shield. It seems about on par for the upgraded version. The unupped is too hard for me to judge.
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Re: Bright Side | Silver Lining https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18949.msg242976#msg242976
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2011, 06:14:49 am »
CURATOR COMMENT
-You need to provide a specific link to your card art, rather than a 'freeimage.com' page. Curators and members should be able to see your art source when they click on the link, rather than going on a goose chase in order to find the picture that you used. ^^;


While Bright Side has a nice mechanic (regarding status changes granting a bonus), Silver Lining doesn't bring that much to the table compared to Solar Shield. Yes, having more quanta generated for your mark is wonderful, especially when you're splashing odd elements (Darkness and Water). Still, I feel that it mimics a shield way too much in that it requires you to be attacked, rather than Bright Side's status influences (all of which make sense, minus the Devour thing to me*). I personally believe that Light has way too many forms of quanta generation (Ray of Light, Luciferin, Towers/Pendulums, Solar Shield); if you gave another mechanic to Bright Side instead of generating  :light quanta and your mark's quanta, it might stand out a bit more.

More importantly, the subject of your card went from 'creature status effects' to 'being dealt direct physical damage' - how did that happen? I would stick with Bright Side's status mechanic for both cards, and give another bonus (maybe awarding you extra HP or healing you perhaps?), but that's just my suggestion. (Before you argue, I know that Chaos Seed -> Chaos Power is a major exception to having radical upgrade changes, but Entropy is just a stupid element when it comes to consistency, no pun intended. ;) )

* = Speaking of status changes, when you say 'affected by Devour', do you mean that if your creatures are actually eaten by something, that Bright Side triggers? Or is it the other way around?


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Re: Bright Side | Silver Lining https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18949.msg243223#msg243223
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2011, 06:17:33 pm »
This might be getting away from the idea a little, but maybe an alternate causal effect to the status change & damage conditions? Or perhaps if the unupped only kicked in when your opponents' creatures are affected, the upped could be global? Just ideas :)
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Re: Bright Side | Silver Lining https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18949.msg243930#msg243930
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2011, 03:08:22 pm »
I like the idea.  The idea of the card is unique and I love how the name matches the card perfectly.  This could become very useful in light oriented decks, such as rustlers.  Silver lining + solar shield= lots of light quanta.  However, I believe that the costs are a bit too low, or the upgraded one at least.  The upgraded one can gain back all of the quanta used to play it in 1-2 turns.  I think the costs should be 4/5 or 5/6.  If they were 4/5, I would suggest having the quanta for the mark happen only once a turn if the effect is triggered to avoid the card becoming OP.  Also, to avoid being OP, I do not believe that this should have a stacking ability and should work like nightfall if there are 2 or more on the field.  Imagine having 3 Silver Linings on the field, with 5 enemy creatures and a weapon.  Right now, you would be getting 18 light quanta and 18 quanta of your mark in 1 turn, which is way too much.  With what I have suggested, you would have gained 6 light quanta and 1 quanta of your mark, which is more fair and less OP.  On the card art side of this, I am not really sure why the picture is a cloud, but also cannot think of anything else that it could be.
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Re: Bright Side | Silver Lining https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18949.msg246707#msg246707
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2011, 05:17:38 pm »
Wow, that's a lot of helpful feedback ^^ I don't have time to update the suggestion at the moment, but I'll make the changes necessary later on tonight. I'm thinking of scrapping the mechanic for Silver Lining, and making the effect 'When the status of a creature under your control changes, this card generates  :light and restores 3 (5?) HP.' That means that the upped version will follow the (mostly praised) setup of Bright Side, and add an effect to make it worth the extra 1500 :electrum.

Any thoughts on that, before I get back later, would be much appreciated.

 

blarg: