Backfire | Shocking Backfire

[CuCN]

Does an Oty have less HP than itself?

You gave the example of a Nymph Queen targeting itself, even though it would normally not be a valid target. This would extend to an Oty being able to target itself even when it would usually be impossible.

Also, Mindgate doesn't target, so it should behave as a normal activation, not add a copy of itself.

[Espithel]

Mindgate targets the top card of the player's deck, right?

And, yes... An otyguh should be able to eat itself.


Still coming up with the list x.x

[iDaire]

Mindgate targets the top card of the player's deck, right?

And, yes... An otyguh should be able to eat itself.


Still coming up with the list x.x

That would mean any number within the HP range is less than itself.
Why?
 If X is HP and O is Otyugh HP, X < O for Devour to work. However, if X = O, X can't be < O, therefore Otyugh can't work.
Elaborate.

[Espithel]

Adding to the full explanation:

When a creature targets itself, it ignores anything that would otherwise prevent it from targetting itself.


Otyguh's devouring effect prevents it from targetting it from eating things with lower HP.
As a result, this is ignored when the effect goes.


... Yay, this is the second most confusing card I've ever made!

[iDaire]

Adding to the full explanation:

When a creature targets itself, it ignores anything that would otherwise prevent it from targetting itself.


Otyguh's devouring effect prevents it from targetting it from eating things with lower HP.
As a result, this is ignored when the effect goes.


... Yay, this is the second most confusing card I've ever made!

That's broken. Drop that function.

[Espithel]

What would you do in place of it?

We need some way of treating effects that can't target themself.

[iDaire]

What in elements would having an effect that can target the user be useful besides immaterial creatures?
Unless you can give a wide example on how your function can be useful, I will simply conclude that it is not and therefore has no need in elements.

[OdinVanguard]

Hmm... I see where you are trying to go, but I think it will be a bit limited...
I think It might be more fun to have it force creatures and permanents to use their abilities on a random target on the same side instead of just on themselves.
That could certainly be a thorn in the sides of parasite and Maxwell demon decks.... and it would let otyughs and scarabs backfire successfully as well.

I actually would very much like to try out this spell if it worked that way.

[Espithel]

What in elements would having an effect that can target the user be useful besides immaterial creatures?
Unless you can give a wide example on how your function can be useful, I will simply conclude that it is not and therefore has no need in elements.

Whilst this card is slightly vague, yes, I do expect a slight element of "This is a new card, let's see what it can do" from people.

Because it triggers every activated ability, that is multiple card draws from hourglasses, multiple mitoses a turn, insta fa kaff to pulvy, otyguh, lobotomizer, the CC nymphs, and many other annoying cards forcibly burrow/unborrow shriekers...
This card has uses.

It should still be compared to lobo, though.

Hmm... I see where you are trying to go, but I think it will be a bit limited...
I think It might be more fun to have it force creatures and permanents to use their abilities on a random target on the same side instead of just on themselves.
That could certainly be a thorn in the sides of parasite and Maxwell demon decks.... and it would let otyughs and scarabs backfire successfully as well.

I actually would very much like to try out this spell if it worked that way.

Well, if you could choose between freezing the squid that's freezing all of your shriekers and dragons, or freezing the abyss crawlers next to it, you'd probably choose the squid.

Although, yes, having the card choose between random things on the field would be quite nice, but it would be a nerf to an already not-uber-strong card.

Although, I guess the positive uses, like hourglass, can get a little silly and powerful, so sure, I'll definitely consider it.

[OdinVanguard]

Well, if you could choose between freezing the squid that's freezing all of your shriekers and dragons, or freezing the abyss crawlers next to it, you'd probably choose the squid.

Although, yes, having the card choose between random things on the field would be quite nice, but it would be a nerf to an already not-uber-strong card.

I think it would actually be a buff. There are a lot of abilities that won't allow the user to target itself. Devour, for instance... also: upped maxwells demon, lobotomize (on electrocutor / lobotomizer), snipe (on owl's eye), destroy (on creatures), earthquake (on trident)... etc.

Thats at least 6 different abilities, which affects more than six cards since some abilities listed show up on more than one card.
So its not so much a choice of "do I want that squid to freeze itself" as it is, "do I want this card to even have any effect at all"

I suppose you could alternately go with having a creature or permanent choose a random target on its side only when it cant target itself. That would work pretty well too.

As it is worded now, it would suck that there are so many situations where this card would have no useful effect whatsoever.

[Espithel]

Destroy on creatures will kill the creature.
Trident will kill itself.
Lobo will lobo itself.
Upped maxwell's demon will also kill itself.

Trident, maxwell's and lobo's inability to target itself normally is otherwise ignored so the thing has an effect, which I dislike but it does the job.

The card ignores how the card targets and forces the card to target itself, even if it otherwise can't.

[OdinVanguard]

Hmm... I guess that works... Seems kind of kluky though.

In any event, if that is your intent, it would be good to put a note in the OP so people will know since that is not all that intuitive.