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TheDarkAzura

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Re: Anti-Heal // Reverse Heal https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4883.msg48510#msg48510
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2010, 12:46:24 am »
What do you think it could be, then?

It could make it into the game, still I don't see how it could be used correctly.

Kurohami

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Re: Anti-Heal // Reverse Heal https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4883.msg48521#msg48521
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2010, 12:56:20 am »
I don't like the idea, it's kind of like antimatter applied on the elemental instead of the creature. The reason why I don't like it is because it's just too evil. Think about it, when you can no longer use miracle, bonds and shard without fear, and the bonds and shards that are out before this card come into play are hard to get rid of, so if you didn't know the other person has the card, you are screwed.

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Re: Anti-Heal // Reverse Heal https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4883.msg48530#msg48530
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2010, 01:13:13 am »
1 card to kill fire queen / ferox, awesome

or even better, use alfratoxin to make a prefect defense...
So his field is packed with creatures, like 6 bonds, nice!

Way OP

Re: Anti-Heal // Reverse Heal https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4883.msg48542#msg48542
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2010, 01:42:08 am »
I don't know if I'm misunderstanding, but a lot of these complaints just seem absolutely ridiculous. 

Yeah, it does beat Fire Queen/Ferox... if you can get it out before they swarm you to death.  If you survive to  the point that they have enough bonds and creatures out that it would really be a game-changer, any 40-card or so Rainbow would already have the game on lockdown pretty much.  The real gain is against Miracle, since it doesn't trigger the spell until right before it's about to die... playing this card on the turn you get it within killing range would make the game super easy.  Mirror Shield pretty much shuts down Octane completely, and that doesn't make it broken. 

I don't play much PvP, but I don't imagine that a lot of decks rely on Empathic Bond for any sort of major healing.  It does make for interesting strategy though, playing this as you get the enemy within killing range to prevent life-saving Miracles or having their own shards finishing them off.  I don't really like this idea, I think maybe it should apply to healing spells (making Shards of Gratitude immune), as there is next to nothing a person can do about it if they have 2-3 shards out and you play this card... it's 10-15 unblockable, unpreventable damage for 6 death quanta unless they're packing creatures with destroy/deflags/pulvy.  Preventing Miracle/Heal/Holy Flash/Drain Life/Stone Skin from saving a person seems pretty legitimate and not OP to me.  I also think this would apply to SoD, seeing as its effect takes place upon playing. 

icybraker

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Re: Anti-Heal // Reverse Heal https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4883.msg48546#msg48546
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2010, 01:47:00 am »
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if you can get it out before they swarm you to death
It costs 7 :death. Even a Rainbow deck could get easily get that much quanta, given healing and shields, before they get wiped out.

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If you survive to  the point that they have enough bonds and creatures out that it would really be a game-changer, any 40-card or so Rainbow would already have the game on lockdown pretty much.
Ferox and Fire Queen spam Bonds and creatures VERY quickly. With enough Shards and good shields, you can survive for quite a while (a single Permafrost and 2 Shards kept my health at a standstill against a full field while I was fighting Fire Queen), but these gods can have enough creatures and healing for Anti-Heal to be effective before mid-game.

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playing this card on the turn you get it within killing range would make the game super easy.
One reason why I think this card is overpowered. 99 damage with Miracle.



Kurohami

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Re: Anti-Heal // Reverse Heal https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4883.msg48550#msg48550
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2010, 01:55:41 am »
Or 199 if your opponent is false god, this can possibly make Rainbow much more beatable since he uses miracle the same minor as Miracle, but I still don't like the card.

Offline killsdazombies

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Re: Anti-Heal // Reverse Heal https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4883.msg48555#msg48555
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2010, 02:09:55 am »
What do you think it could be, then?

It could make it into the game, still I don't see how it could be used correctly.
If you dont have anything HELPFUL to say or have an ounce of thought put into it please dont post.

this card would i think (if its not OP) helpful when fighting life or light, there about to die so on the last turn bam throw this down and you win i believe this would be a helpful card for a death-mono or a rainbow deck.

no it wouldn't "stop all healing" because many decks are built around healing, just because a card can counter that doesn't mean that all healing cards now suck because they still are very good cards.

icybraker

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Re: Anti-Heal // Reverse Heal https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4883.msg48557#msg48557
« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2010, 02:14:59 am »
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no it wouldn't "stop all healing" because many decks are built around healing, just because a card can counter that doesn't mean that all healing cards now suck because they still are very good cards.
Agreed.

To further this point: This card only stops healing for 1 turn. Thus, placing it against Ferox with full health would most likely never kill it; just hurt it considerably. Although I would never want to see such a potent card placed in the real game, if it was, healing cards would still be around. How many people would carry Anti-Heal in their T50 or PvP decks? Not that many; healing isn't used a whole lot, and neither will Anti-Heal.

Offline DemagogTopic starter

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Re: Anti-Heal // Reverse Heal https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4883.msg48558#msg48558
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2010, 02:18:02 am »
Perhaps instead of screaming, "OMG, OP!!!" and running for the hills, yall could offer suggestions. The only people that have done that so far are Wally and Spoons. Go ahead and change the type of healing the card affects, I don't care. Go ahead and change the cost to 20 and consume the rest, I don't care. The reason for this suggestion is there is no counter to healing. Everything should have a counter. Especially miracle. Basically full health for only 12 quanta? Combine that with SoD's and six or more light towers and you'll beat the vast majority of decks out there. I think miracle should be a protected permanent, and for each one you have, the next miracle you play is less effective.

icybraker

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Re: Anti-Heal // Reverse Heal https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4883.msg48559#msg48559
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2010, 02:21:42 am »
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The reason for this suggestion is there is no counter to healing.
...Actual damage?

I see what you mean here, but I just feel as if you can approach this differently. You're not going to stop Miracle from being overpowered by making an even more overpowered card.

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Combine that with SoD's and six or more light towers and you'll beat the vast majority of decks out there.
You can pretty much say the same for any well-made deck. Vreely's Golem killer more or less single-handedly won the tourney for me. A Shrieker deck can breeze through T50 like no other. Mono-Aether can "beat the vast majority of decks out there."

But, again, your words do have a true side to them. Miracle IS overpowered, there's no denying that; I'm simply saying that this card idea, as it stands, is not the solution to this.

Re: Anti-Heal // Reverse Heal https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4883.msg48563#msg48563
« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2010, 02:30:40 am »
Fire Queen and Ferox are already sort of a joke.  The only reason to lose to them is on a bad draw where you can't get a Dim Shield out before they kill you or something along those lines.  If you get your ability to stall going with a few towers, you're going to win.  I guess I can imagine a situation where this is a complete game-changer against FQ, but so is an early quinted Oty or access to Fire Storm/Bone Wall at the same time.  That's 5 Quantum(+1 a turn), or 10 quantum (distributed among two elements) in a rainbow for the same effect.  Rainbows already need death quantum for Bone Wall (necessary to protect your permanents/late game defense) and Graveyard (to ensure that you have something to mutate if you have to eat your own fireflies).  I feel like this card is alright, but I think it's more than a stretch to say it's overpowered.  It's really situational and fairly expensive as well, you have to be sure they need their healing the following turn and there's nothing they can do to delay if you really want it to be a game-changer.

The thing I'm not sure we're realizing is that it will NEVER actually do 99 damage.  It will, however, prevent a player/CPU from playing Miracle, meaning you have a chance to kill them.  This card can be countered by the opponent playing a sundial the same turn it is played.  This means your creatures won't attack, and they can use their Miracle the following turn. 

I like the card, except I feel like SoG should be immune to its effects.  I think it's alright to have it effect EB, although it's a similar effect, because it takes so much work to actually get more than a few EBs out.

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Re: Anti-Heal // Reverse Heal https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4883.msg48570#msg48570
« Reply #23 on: April 05, 2010, 02:40:31 am »
How about instead of dealing damage, all healing is negated for a turn? That would be kind of complicated though... either it has to be the first card you play so you can't use healing on the turn you play it, or it has to be in effect through your turn after you played it. Then again, I think that would be the case as well with the damaging version. I just didn't think about it before.

 

blarg: