Poll

Name change to...

Don't change it
1 (16.7%)
Parting Gift
2 (33.3%)
Llama
1 (16.7%)
You suck, so I'm not voting
1 (16.7%)
Whoever picked the option above is a liar
1 (16.7%)

Total Members Voted: 6

*Author

Offline skyironswordTopic starter

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Re: Fade | Disintegrate https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49065.msg1075240#msg1075240
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2013, 12:28:15 am »
Compare with miracle: min 15 cost unupped
Fade:

min: cost = 2, 1 discard; heal = 15
max: cost = 2, 7 discard; heal = 105

At 7 cards, the effect is 1 hp greater than miracle in absence of total hp gaining cards.  Therefore, we need to ask if 15+ quanta is a similar (or slightly greater, given miracle's added life gain utility) cost to fade.  In other words, is the opportunity cost of 7 random cards equal to 13+ quanta.  IMO it is not.  If you are stalling, most likely you will have a larger hand than if you are rushing.  These cards would have some added benefit, which would be greater than approx. 2 quanta/card in most stalls imo, especially since in absence of denial, quanta become more plentiful late game.  ...but fade can be used in absence of a pure stall!  Let's consider using this in a deck that tends to empty its hand quickly then.  At 2 cards (including fade) in hand, compare to heal: 2 :light + discard for 15 hp < 3 :life for 20 hp.  At 2 cards, 2 :light + 2 discard for 30 hp < 3 :life for 20 hp imo.  The opportunity cost of losing your hand is not worth the quanta saved imo. 

I admit, it's a wickedly cool mechanic, and props for the idea.  I don't think the utility is there though.

Unfortunately, it doesn't include fade. Check out the notes. The main reason for this card is to be able to save some games when your hand is jammed, and the low cost makes it splashable. Also, it doesn't drain all your :light.

Offline regen2k9

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Re: Fade | Disintegrate https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49065.msg1075255#msg1075255
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2013, 12:52:32 am »
Compare with miracle: min 15 cost unupped
Fade:

min: cost = 2, 1 discard; heal = 15
max: cost = 2, 7 discard; heal = 105

At 7 cards, the effect is 1 hp greater than miracle in absence of total hp gaining cards.  Therefore, we need to ask if 15+ quanta is a similar (or slightly greater, given miracle's added life gain utility) cost to fade.  In other words, is the opportunity cost of 7 random cards equal to 13+ quanta.  IMO it is not.  If you are stalling, most likely you will have a larger hand than if you are rushing.  These cards would have some added benefit, which would be greater than approx. 2 quanta/card in most stalls imo, especially since in absence of denial, quanta become more plentiful late game.  ...but fade can be used in absence of a pure stall!  Let's consider using this in a deck that tends to empty its hand quickly then.  At 2 cards (including fade) in hand, compare to heal: 2 :light + discard for 15 hp < 3 :life for 20 hp.  At 2 cards, 2 :light + 2 discard for 30 hp < 3 :life for 20 hp imo.  The opportunity cost of losing your hand is not worth the quanta saved imo. 

I admit, it's a wickedly cool mechanic, and props for the idea.  I don't think the utility is there though.

Unfortunately, it doesn't include fade. Check out the notes. The main reason for this card is to be able to save some games when your hand is jammed, and the low cost makes it splashable. Also, it doesn't drain all your :light.

Oh, I know it doesn't include fade, but your max hand size is 8, so the max discard is 7  :)  The light drain was only a reference to miracle.

Hmm...good point on saving your game when your hand is jammed.  I didn't think of that.  Still...in most cases, your hand won't be jammed so, I wonder if this would be too situational and just benefit fractal decks, vs. denial, and of course, bad RNG.
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Offline skyironswordTopic starter

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Re: Fade | Disintegrate https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49065.msg1075264#msg1075264
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2013, 01:18:49 am »
It benefits by splashing it with just a mark. And it's better than miracle because it doesn't drain your quanta, which is what I was trying to say.

Offline regen2k9

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Re: Fade | Disintegrate https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49065.msg1075281#msg1075281
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2013, 01:47:42 am »
It benefits by splashing it with just a mark. And it's better than miracle because it doesn't drain your quanta, which is what I was trying to say.

The ability to splash Fade is a very good point, and after considering it, I'd actually agree with you and say it's a viable card.  I still think the cost is too high (including discards in the concept of "cost") but I can definitely see more merits than I saw before now.  Good call  :)
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Offline skyironswordTopic starter

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Re: Fade | Disintegrate https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49065.msg1075453#msg1075453
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2013, 08:58:30 pm »
Funny, because half the people on here say it heals too much, and the other half say too little. :P

 

blarg: