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Offline TafferTopic starter

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6 balancing card ideas https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=1698.msg14977#msg14977
« on: December 30, 2009, 06:10:29 pm »
Card name: Madness
Type: Spell/Basic. Upgrades to Schizophrenia.
Cost: 3 Death
Description: Target creature turns against its owner and gets poisoned if not poisoned yet.

Card name: Schizophrenia
Type: Spell/Upgraded. Upgraded version of Madness.
Cost: 3 Death
Description: Target creature turns against its owner.

Details: Would be a good weapon against an overpowered creature. A mad creature attacks at the same time as its owner's creatures but against its owner (this makes possible for the owner to destroy it before its first attack). Upgraded version causes no infection so target creature may survive longer. Can be an interesting situation when you heal and bless the enemy's mad creature while he/she tries to get rid of it.

Card name: Holy Water
Type: Spell/Basic. Upgrades to Holy Rain.
Cost: 1 Water
Description: Removes poison status of target creature

Card name: Holy Rain
Type: Spell/Upgraded. Upgraded version of Holy Water.
Cost: 3 Water
Description: Removes poison status of creatures you own.

Details: This could be a good balancing card of plague cards and creatures of infection ability. This would not ruin poisoning decks because it does not prevent further infections, and, similar to Purify card, this card proves needless if your enemy uses no poisoning. Therefore I don't suppose that more people would use it as many use Purify card.

Card name: Healer
Type: Creature/Basic 2/2. Upgrades to Remedial.
Cost: 2 Life
Description: 2 Water: Purify; Removes the poison status of target creature.

Card name: Remedial
Type: Creature/Upgraded 2/5. Upgraded version of Healer.
Cost: 3 Life
Description: 1 Water: Purify; Removes the poison status of target creature.

Details: Creature version of card above. Should be tested whether keeps balance or not. 2 water cost of active skill and the fact that can cure only one creature in a turn maybe keeps balance.

Card name: Dawning
Type: Permanent/Basic. Upgrades to Sunrise.
Cost: 5 Light
Description: All of the non-darkness/death creatures gain +1/+1

Card name: Sunrise
Type: Permanent/Upgraded. Upgraded version of Dawning.
Cost: 4 Light
Description: All of the non-darkness/death creatures gain +1/+1. Suppresses the effect of Nightfall/Eclipse cards.

Details: I think, it's quite obvious. Its cost is more expensive than Nightfall because this card affects more creatures.

Card name: Amnesia
Type: Spell/Basic. Upgrades to New dawn.
Cost: 4 Entropy
Description: Restores original state of target creature.

Card name: New dawn
Type: Spell/Upgraded. Upgraded version of Amnesia.
Cost: 8 Random quanta
Description: Restores original state of every creature in play, including ones that cannot be targeted.

Details: Now, that's a tricky one. Costs should be balanced if needed. Would restore original attack/health points and abilities. Could be used against an overpowered enemy or on a weakened self creature. The basic version could not be used against burrowed or immortal creatures while upgraded version affects both self and enemy creatures, regardless whether they can be targeted or not. To be consider: If creature is a mutant should it restore the normal state of the current or the original creature (similar question with hatched creatures). I vote for restoring the basic state of the current card, maybe easier for the developer.

Card name: Memento Mori
Type: Spell/Basic. Upgrades to Memento Mori (Upgraded).
Cost: 4 Darkness
Description: Makes an immortal creature mortal.

Card name: Memento Mori (Upgraded)
Type: Spell/Upgraded. Upgraded version of Memento Mori.
Cost: 2 Darkness
Description: Makes an immortal creature mortal.

Details: And finally the trickiest one - I'm not sure whether everyone will find this a good idea but can be interesting. It could be used also on self creatures - for example to give blessing to an already immortal and thus not targetable creature. Immortality can be reset by Anubis or the new Quintessence card. Has no effect on burrowed creatures just on immortal ones.

Celidion

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Re: 6 balancing card ideas https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=1698.msg14980#msg14980
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2009, 06:18:09 pm »
I, for one, like all the ideas. Keep up the good work. :D

bobcamel

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Re: 6 balancing card ideas https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=1698.msg14983#msg14983
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2009, 06:24:54 pm »
Madness and such are overpowered, as it's basically the same as those "steal creature" cards, just without the part when it is moved to your side of field. It practically kills the usefulness of the creature to the enemy. No cost can justify it, or at least not 3.

Holy Water is reasonable, Holy Rain - less. It costs less than a basic Plague and can counter more than one Plague if your creatures withstand it. Also, it's situational, as not many things use creature poison. Just Death, practically, as Bloodsuckers are too weak.

Healer is very alright, Remedial would be if it kept 2/2 instead of a sudden bump to 2/5. Maxwell's Demon doesn't get 1-cost Paradox on upgrade, JUST the HP boost. Or whatever. I'd nerf the upgrade boost on this one, the concept is very alright.

Dawning and Sunrise both are nice things. Sunrise doesn't lose the boost, so it isn't situational, just gets a nice bonus against some decks. Of course, it's quite racist, as it specifically makes Black element weaker, but...

Amnesia is alright, but Immaterial creatures should stay untouchable. That's the very point. As for mutants/hatched, mutants should be returned to the state of the creature they're currently being, not the fodder, as you said, to make it programmable at all, as there is no history on what a creature has been.
'
Memeento Mori, see above. Immaterial stay Immaterial, as you can't target an immaterial creature with any sort of unimmaterializing effect. It's like trying to tranquilize something with a slowdown mixture applied to an arrow when the thing is fast enough to dodge all the arrows. And it defeats the whole point of Immateriality anyway.

Offline TafferTopic starter

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Re: 6 balancing card ideas https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=1698.msg14993#msg14993
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2009, 08:02:00 pm »
Madness and such are overpowered, as it's basically the same as those "steal creature" cards, just without the part when it is moved to your side of field. It practically kills the usefulness of the creature to the enemy. No cost can justify it, or at least not 3.
You may right, Parallel Universe costs 7 so this should be similar. And maybe the upgraded card should cause infection, too, otherwise the mad creature could be made undistroyable by an immortality spell. But killing usefulness of the creature to the enemy is the point. :)
My new suggestion: Madness causes one cumulative poison to the mad creature after each turn while Schizophrenia just simply causes one poison when played. Costs can be around 5-7.

Holy Water is reasonable, Holy Rain - less. It costs less than a basic Plague and can counter more than one Plague if your creatures withstand it. Also, it's situational, as not many things use creature poison. Just Death, practically, as Bloodsuckers are too weak.
I think it is OK that Holy Rain costs less than Plague. Plague can be used against every decks and the more Plague cards you have the better. This is not true for Holy Rain - it is useless if your enemy does not poison your creatures (by Plague, Bloodsucker, Toadfish). I don't think anyone would use more than 2 Holy Rains in a deck and since it is an upgraded card a really big cost must be payed before you can use it. I don't think that it would be the first card to be upgraded.

Healer is very alright, Remedial would be if it kept 2/2 instead of a sudden bump to 2/5. Maxwell's Demon doesn't get 1-cost Paradox on upgrade, JUST the HP boost. Or whatever. I'd nerf the upgrade boost on this one, the concept is very alright.
I figured Healer/Remedial out after Rustler/Leaf Dragon, but you are right, 3 HP upgrade might be too much.

Dawning and Sunrise both are nice things. Sunrise doesn't lose the boost, so it isn't situational, just gets a nice bonus against some decks. Of course, it's quite racist, as it specifically makes Black element weaker, but...
:D

Amnesia is alright, but Immaterial creatures should stay untouchable. That's the very point. As for mutants/hatched, mutants should be returned to the state of the creature they're currently being, not the fodder, as you said, to make it programmable at all, as there is no history on what a creature has been.
'
Memeento Mori, see above. Immaterial stay Immaterial, as you can't target an immaterial creature with any sort of unimmaterializing effect. It's like trying to tranquilize something with a slowdown mixture applied to an arrow when the thing is fast enough to dodge all the arrows. And it defeats the whole point of Immateriality anyway.
Yes, these cards would lead to a conceptional change but I said that they were tricky.  ;) Btw, I recently play with Aether so even I wouldn't like if someone used Mememento Mori against me. But I thought MM would be a good balancing for the new Quintessence card. Maybe too much immortality came in play with last changes.

Just for fun, imagine the next situation: You have a poisoned creature, which you make immortal. In this state your creature will definitely die in a few turns because immortality does not remove poison and you are unable to heal it since it cannot be targeted. But by Memento Mori you can make it mortal and thus you can heal it to prevent its death. A paradox scenario, indeed.  :D

bobcamel

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Re: 6 balancing card ideas https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=1698.msg14995#msg14995
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2009, 08:18:55 pm »
Actually, the creature can still use its ability, so... Alright then. Still, it's much better with 7 cost.

Your explaination on Holy Rain convinced me. I wasn't sure myself.

So, what are you changing the Remedial's HP to? Or, you can make the heal 2 Water and the HP 5, no problem.

Memento Mori is just a plain no. Immateriality just removes the possiblity of killing or freezing a creature, but there are other ways of stopping them.

Offline TafferTopic starter

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Re: 6 balancing card ideas https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=1698.msg15004#msg15004
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2009, 09:12:10 pm »
If Healer can be devoured by an Otyugh, it would be unfair if Remedial couldn't be devoured by an Elite Otyugh. So 4 HP is enough.  :) And it heals with 1 water. This wouldn't be a commonly used skill, anyway.

Well, I supposed that the community will not welcome the idea of Memento Mori. While basically I agree with this concept I have to mention that MM would not be so powerful as it seems. Similarly to Purify or Holy Water, it would be useless against many decks and could be used only when a creature has immortality. In fact, if Quintessence has been an old card like Enchant Artifact, this idea would haven't come into my mind. On the other hand, if Enchant Artifact was a new card, maybe I would suggest another idea against permanent protection. Hmm, what about a new card, named Dissolve...  :D

Celidion

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Re: 6 balancing card ideas https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=1698.msg15014#msg15014
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2009, 11:34:27 pm »
Don't mind bobcamel, he shuns all cards that remove immortality.

bobcamel

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Re: 6 balancing card ideas https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=1698.msg15016#msg15016
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2009, 11:49:58 pm »
Because it is meant to be so.

PuppyChow

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Re: 6 balancing card ideas https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=1698.msg15066#msg15066
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2009, 08:02:54 am »
I, too, think that a card to remove immortality is not needed. The whole point of immaterial is to be UNTARGETABLE. You can still shield from it and such.

I like the card name though :).


Delreich

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Re: 6 balancing card ideas https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=1698.msg15148#msg15148
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2009, 10:07:03 pm »
Madness and such are overpowered, as it's basically the same as those "steal creature" cards, just without the part when it is moved to your side of field. It practically kills the usefulness of the creature to the enemy. No cost can justify it, or at least not 3.
You may right, Parallel Universe costs 7 so this should be similar. And maybe the upgraded card should cause infection, too, otherwise the mad creature could be made undistroyable by an immortality spell. But killing usefulness of the creature to the enemy is the point. :)
My new suggestion: Madness causes one cumulative poison to the mad creature after each turn while Schizophrenia just simply causes one poison when played. Costs can be around 5-7.
New suggestion sounds good.

New Dawn should not be random quanta, that's way too cheap. 8 entropy might be OK, though. Functionally, I think it should be as if everything was rewound and re-played, and should affect immaterial critters. Naturally immaterial critters stay immaterial, Anubis and Quintessence effects are undone.
Amnesia obviously wouldn't work on immaterial critters, as it's written now. It targets normally, and immaterial critters can't be targeted normally.

I'm not convinced there's a need for Memento Mori; it seems a bit narrow. I suppose it's OK, I just can't see it being used.

The others all look fine.


I, too, think that a card to remove immortality is not needed. The whole point of immaterial is to be UNTARGETABLE. You can still shield from it and such.
I'm not entirely sure how you would shield from a quinted oty or such...

Celidion

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Re: 6 balancing card ideas https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=1698.msg15204#msg15204
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2010, 06:14:24 am »
Bob and Puppy, the only reason you don't like removing immaterial is because you use decks that abuse it. Flying Glories, Quintessence, etc.

bobcamel

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Re: 6 balancing card ideas https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=1698.msg15218#msg15218
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2010, 12:06:25 pm »
Hah! I don't use any deck. The last thing I did on my account was farming gods with SG's with some more cards added so it was less effective. I don't even own a Morning Glory, not even one. Nor the Quintessence.

Stilt, the concept is simply ridiculous. See my arrow-tranquilizer-superspeed being example.

 

anything
blarg: