Charge | Supercharge

[Pineapple]

NAME: Charge ELEMENT: Aether COST: 3 TYPE: Spell ATK|HP: TEXT: Generate 3 quanta of the target creature's element and produce an element-specific effect.	NAME: Supercharge ELEMENT: Aether COST: 3 TYPE: Spell ATK|HP: TEXT: Generate 4 quanta of the target creature's element and produce an element-specific effect.

ART: pineapple IDEA: pineapple NOTES: Submission for "Revive the Archive 2" Original Card: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,35381 "Other" creatures will generate 3/4 random quanta (as opposed to 3/4 quanta of the Other element). Element of Targeted Creature Un-upgraded Effect Upgraded Effect Target creature's ability becomes Psion. Target creature's ability becomes Psion. Fly your equipped weapon. Fly your equipped weapon Nightmare the target creature. Nightmare the target creature. Generate a death effect. Generate two death effects. Target creature becomes delayed for 6 turns and gains +0/+20. Target creature becomes delayed for 6 turns and gains +0/+20. Mutate the target creature with a chance to kill. Mutate the target creature. Target creature gains +5/-5. Target creature gains +6/-6. Target creature gains Gravity Pull. Target creature gains Gravity Pull. Adrenaline the target creature. Adrenaline the target creature. Gain the "Sanctuary" status for 1 turn. Gain the "Sanctuary" status for 1 turn. Draw 1 card. Draw 1 card. Generate a Flooding that lasts 1 turn. Generate a Flooding that lasts 1 turn. Other Nova effect. Nova effect. SERIES:

[esran]

wait. whoa. stop right there. way too strong in aether. since aether is where wisdom is usable anyway, it overshadows wisdom in price, and produces its quanta right back. try balancing these affects. i havent looked at all of them but some are clearly better than others, and most are too good for 3 when it also generates that much.

[Pineapple]

wait. whoa. stop right there. way too strong in aether. since aether is where wisdom is usable anyway, it overshadows wisdom in price, and produces its quanta right back. try balancing these affects. i havent looked at all of them but some are clearly better than others, and most are too good for 3 when it also generates that much.

Aren't you forgetting something? Wisdom not only gives +4/+0 (pretty much a rage potion without the hp cost) but also has arguably higher versatility for ignoring shields.

Creature	Attack	Charge	Wisdom	Comments
Spark	3	x	o	Doesn't count because it only survives 1 turn.
Immortal	4	o	x
Phase Dragon	8	o	x
Phase Recluse	4	x	o	Finally, a creature!
Psion	4	x	o	Yeah, doesn't really count because Psion already has Psion.
Sapphire Charger	4	x	o	Yeah, doesn't really count because Charger already has Momentum.
Graviton Mercenary	3	x	o	Second creature!
Colossal Dragon	7	x	o	Third, and this time it's pretty nice.
Otyugh	0	x	o	Because a 0|3 with Momentum is so powerful.
Graviton Fire Eater	0	x	o	I just love them Aether-Gravity-Fire trios.
Any targetable creature + Quintessence	0~15	o	x

If anything, I need to change the Gravity part because Momentum'd Colossal Dragons + Aether is so OP.

What I was going for was that the card should be balanced as a whole instead of for each individual part. The varying effects (from good to bad) are a balancing mechanism. If you're planning to pull off a combo using one of the beneficial effects, then you would be restricted to using a duo. If you're planning to pull off a combo using harmful effects against your opponent, then you better have amazing fortune-telling powers. In addition, most of the effects are similar to cheap spell that don't require to draw and pay quanta for a creature.

Last but not least, it has been brought to my attention that card ideas are meant to be balanceable ideas, not balanced ideas. In fact, card ideas to be implemented into the game usually have to be re-balanced in light of pragmatic usage. The community rarely agrees on balance (just see the Buff/Nerf section), so tweaking a card idea's balance night after day is rarely a rewarding process.

[asymmetry]

THe concept is interesting but the triggered elemental effects seem... uneven... and forced.

[Pineapple]

THe concept is interesting but the triggered elemental effects seem... uneven... and forced.

They're meant to be uneven. If every effect was "a beneficial 2-cost spell", then the card would be a substitute for every single 2-cost spell it mimics. I don't want that; I want Charge to be an embodiment of Aether, not an embodiment of Rainbow (see Mindgate).

Could you extrapolate on what you mean by "forced"?

[rickerd]

Why do get some elements a good effect and other a bad effect?

[Pineapple]

Why do get some elements a good effect and other a bad effect?

They're meant to be uneven. If every effect was "a beneficial 2-cost spell", then the card would be a substitute for every single 2-cost spell it mimics. I don't want that; I want Charge to be an embodiment of Aether, not an embodiment of Rainbow (see Mindgate).

[asymmetry]

Even being an embodiment of a muffin, if it priorizes certain elements above others it's unbalanced... that leads me to

Could you extrapolate on what you mean by "forced"?

Awkward, un-natural. Also, why would  generate quanta or help other elements? synergically speaking it seems like the most selfish element to me. (not a complaint! it nails the theme!)

[Pineapple]

Even being an embodiment of a muffin, if it priorizes certain elements above others it's unbalanced...

Then what about Nightfall/Eclipse? Ghost of the Past (when nightmare'd)? You haven't shown why "prioritizing" elements makes it unbalanced more than situational.

Could you extrapolate on what you mean by "forced"?

Awkward, un-natural. Also, why would  generate quanta or help other elements? synergically speaking it seems like the most selfish element to me. (not a complaint! it nails the theme!)

Could you actually explain why this mechanic seems "forced"? All you did was list synonyms, which still makes this subjective. I don't believe it's forced, so what makes you right and me wrong?
The theme is charging something, like a battery. Charge does not help other elements, but rather manipulates other elements to benefit the Elemental. That fits your interpretation as "selfish", does it not? The idea of charging a battery is firmly fixed in Aether, as are non-atmospheric electricity (Lightning, Psion) and "technological" advancements (Mindgate, Dimensional Shield, Fractal).

[asymmetry]

Yeah Nightfall... Charge targets cretures so i'd expect aether cards to do aether stuff... I think this chromatic mechanic, (let alone "charge" and its syntactic link to aether you just explained) fits more in an Other card.
The effects feel unbalanced to me, if you use it to an advantage then great! To me it just doesn't fit. Don't ask me to rationalize it, it's just a feeling this card gives me.

I don't believe it's forced, so what makes you right and me wrong?

There is no right or wrong, why polarize everything?
All I wrote here is subjective, man; if it helps you polish the card, cool... if you think it's silly then silly it is.

[Hyroen]

THe concept is interesting but the triggered elemental effects seem... uneven... and forced.

I'm not sure about uneven but I think what asymmetry is getting at with the term forced is that the element-specific effects seem like they were just placed there from a list of effects that mostly already exist and don't quite thematically represent what charging implies.

How is it that when an Air creature is charged that your weapon gets affected? Why would a charged Earth creature all of a sudden be able to Guard, as opposed to any other skill? Why would a charged Time creature help you draw a card?

I get the feeling that some of these effects are within the realm of a reasonable representation of the creature being charged whereas others are just pushing the boundaries -hard- and others are just outside of this realm.

I think you may want to just replace some effects with ones that are not in the game. Sometimes innovation goes hand in hand with thematic representation.

[Pineapple]

THe concept is interesting but the triggered elemental effects seem... uneven... and forced.

I'm not sure about uneven but I think what asymmetry is getting at with the term forced is that the element-specific effects seem like they were just placed there from a list of effects that mostly already exist and don't quite thematically represent what charging implies.

How is it that when an Air creature is charged that your weapon gets affected? Why would a charged Earth creature all of a sudden be able to Guard, as opposed to any other skill? Why would a charged Time creature help you draw a card?

I get the feeling that some of these effects are within the realm of a reasonable representation of the creature being charged whereas others are just pushing the boundaries -hard- and others are just outside of this realm.

I think you may want to just replace some effects with ones that are not in the game. Sometimes innovation goes hand in hand with thematic representation.

Hm? You're not charging a creature, you're using a creature as a battery to charge yourself. That's why it's you getting quanta, not the creature. In my interpretation, this transfer of energy releases an aura of excess energy that spreads across the field. Sometimes, it specifically affects the battery (Aether, Earth, Entropy, Fire, Gravity, Life, Water). Sometimes, it specifically affects the one charged (Air, Time, Other). Sometimes, it specifically affects something outside the system (Darkness, Death). There are 13 different types of batteries, and that's why different things can happen with each type. If you can look at things from all angles, there should always be one interpretation that makes sense.

And let's pretend I would change the card so that all the mechanics are new and fresh. Each mechanic could then be isolated as a card idea. You know how much bickering and quibbling the community does over a single card idea's theme and balance, right? Now there will be that much...times thirteen. With used mechanics, at least it's easy to balance (positive effects are +spell cost, negative effects are -spell cost, total should be 0), and no one can argue about what goes in what element.

I don't think you guys understand the card idea. The idea, as presented, is a 3-cost Aether spell with the effect "Generate 3 quanta of the target creature's element and produce an element-specific effect." It doesn't say "over-used element-specific mechanic" or "innovative element-specific mechanic" because it can mean both of those. If you believe that there exists a more balanced form of the table in the Notes, then that only proves that there exists a set of element-specific effects that are (in your eyes) balanced, which means that this idea is balance-able (or already balanced). And for a card's balance, that's all you need.