Congeal weapon and steal. [Not a bug]

[edunavas]

I don´t know where to post. Well I´t not a bug, but I have siome doubts about this:



I was playing against AI3, he had 2 voodoo dolls, he played pandemonium while I was doing something else, when I saw he was only with one doll and my weapon was congeal, I don´t know how he congeal his doll and at the same time it disapeared. Next turn (the turn it´s on the picture) he stole my weapon.
Questions:

1. My weapon slot wasn´t supposed to clear?
2. If I play another weapon it get congeal?

[Glitch]

When voodoo doll freezes your weapon, it really freezes you as an elemental.  This means that stolen weapons remain unfrozen, your weapon slots is frozen, and new weapons will be frozen.  Intentional.

[Ignion]

So, I did some search on this forum and found a couple of different threads about this. I myself encountered the very same error and took a screenshot, but I guess I don't need to post mine since someone else already did.

What I want to contribute to this is that I DISAGREE WITH PEOPLE SAYING IT'S NOT A BUG OR INTENTIONAL.

If you read the description of Pandemonium, it says, "A random effect is inflicted to every creature on the field."

A "weapon slot" is NO WAY A CREATURE. I can see someone constructing an argument that some weapons may be considered a creature (like maybe Vampire Stiletto which kinda looks alive). However, I'll say this again, a "WEAPON SLOT" IS NOT A CREATURE. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY A BUG.

If this is not a bug, the description of Pandemonium must be changed.

[BluePriest]

It is Voodoo dolls effect. Weapon and status are inflicted on your opponent. That is the effect of voodoo doll. Pandemonium freezes voodoo doll so voodoo doll freezes your weapon.

[Ignion]

Then how come your weapon slot does not get frozen when you don't have any weapon in it? I've dueled with this AI many times, and when I don't have any weapon in it (I don't use any weapon right now), the AI's Voo Doo Doll gets frozen and stays that way. My weapon slot has never got frozen empty.

Also, if this is a function of Voo Doo Doll's ability, how come it never freezes the shield slot?

(I'm not saying your explanation is wrong. It makes sense to me. But, it looks to me like there are some minor tune ups to be done about this because there are some inconsistency)

[BluePriest]

Voodoo only freezes the weapon slot of there is already a weapon in it. The reason he has an empty frozen slot is because the weapon was stolen while frozen.

[Ignion]

THat wasn't my point.

I know why he had the empty frozen slot. I've had it happen to myself (only, my weapon did not get stolen, but I used Animate Weapon).

Please read my post carefully and respond accordingly.

[OldTrees]

1)
Then how come your weapon slot does not get frozen when you don't have any weapon in it? I've dueled with this AI many times, and when I don't have any weapon in it (I don't use any weapon right now), the AI's Voo Doo Doll gets frozen and stays that way. My weapon slot has never got frozen empty.
2)
Also, if this is a function of Voo Doo Doll's ability, how come it never freezes the shield slot?

(I'm not saying your explanation is wrong. It makes sense to me. But, it looks to me like there are some minor tune ups to be done about this because there are some inconsistency)

1) Good Point. Typically an Elemental (you) would keep their sword arm away from danger unless armed. Once Armed the offenses of the weapon allow the Voodoo Doll to freeze the Arm when it is in range.

2) You can defend with a frozen shield arm (hence the shield isn't impaired and thus not marked but a frozen symbol)

[Ignion]

Yea, I see the current "system," but it doesn't "makse sense" to me.
Because we are saying "it's the weapon slot that is frozen, so there is nothing wrong" and at the same time "the weapon slot does not get frozen if a weapon is not in it." The two statements create a semi-paradoxical issue.

I also can see how unfair this would be to a Voo Doo Doll user. I don't use Voo Doo Dolls, but if I did, I wouldn't think it'd be fair for my Voo Doo Doll to get frozen and remained that way when it is supposed transfer all damages and status to the opponent (not being faithful to the card description).

Some may say, "well, there's no point freezing a weapon slot if there is nothing in it." Well, I disagree. If I was a Voo Doo Doll user, who just used pandemonium and got my own doll frozen unjustly, and then if my opponent played a weapon card right after that, I would be pissed because that is not how it is supposed to carry out by definition. The weapon slot should be frozen anyway, and my opponent could play a weapon card but its effect should have to wait until the slot is unfrozen.

As far as the shield explanation, I'm not 100% persuaded. It sounds convincing enough, but the freezing effect is supposed freeze effect/ability too. For example, when your weapon slot is frozen and let's say that you have Eagle's Eye, you can't activate its effect, can you? So, why shouldn't that apply to shields too? To give an example, Dissipation Shield uses quanta to absorb damages. Shouldn't that be subject to the freeze effect?

[k3jeff]

Yea, I see the current "system," but it doesn't "makse sense" to me.
Because we are saying "it's the weapon slot that is frozen, so there is nothing wrong" and at the same time "the weapon slot does not get frozen if a weapon is not in it." The two statements create a semi-paradoxical issue.

I also can see how unfair this would be to a Voo Doo Doll user. I don't use Voo Doo Dolls, but if I did, I wouldn't think it'd be fair for my Voo Doo Doll to get frozen and remained that way when it is supposed transfer all damages and status to the opponent (not being faithful to the card description).

Some may say, "well, there's no point freezing a weapon slot if there is nothing in it." Well, I disagree. If I was a Voo Doo Doll user, who just used pandemonium and got my own doll frozen unjustly, and then if my opponent played a weapon card right after that, I would be pissed because that is not how it is supposed to carry out by definition. The weapon slot should be frozen anyway, and my opponent could play a weapon card but its effect should have to wait until the slot is unfrozen.

As far as the shield explanation, I'm not 100% persuaded. It sounds convincing enough, but the freezing effect is supposed freeze effect/ability too. For example, when your weapon slot is frozen and let's say that you have Eagle's Eye, you can't activate its effect, can you? So, why shouldn't that apply to shields too? To give an example, Dissipation Shield uses quanta to absorb damages. Shouldn't that be subject to the freeze effect?

Voodoo Doll would be massively OP if shields were affected.
Imagine getting past RoL Hope, or Fire Bucklers, and worst mirror shield!

[OldTrees]

Yea, I see the current "system," but it doesn't "makse sense" to me.
Because we are saying "it's the weapon slot that is frozen, so there is nothing wrong" and at the same time "the weapon slot does not get frozen if a weapon is not in it." The two statements create a semi-paradoxical issue.

I also can see how unfair this would be to a Voo Doo Doll user. I don't use Voo Doo Dolls, but if I did, I wouldn't think it'd be fair for my Voo Doo Doll to get frozen and remained that way when it is supposed transfer all damages and status to the opponent (not being faithful to the card description).

Some may say, "well, there's no point freezing a weapon slot if there is nothing in it." Well, I disagree. If I was a Voo Doo Doll user, who just used pandemonium and got my own doll frozen unjustly, and then if my opponent played a weapon card right after that, I would be pissed because that is not how it is supposed to carry out by definition. The weapon slot should be frozen anyway, and my opponent could play a weapon card but its effect should have to wait until the slot is unfrozen.

As far as the shield explanation, I'm not 100% persuaded. It sounds convincing enough, but the freezing effect is supposed freeze effect/ability too. For example, when your weapon slot is frozen and let's say that you have Eagle's Eye, you can't activate its effect, can you? So, why shouldn't that apply to shields too? To give an example, Dissipation Shield uses quanta to absorb damages. Shouldn't that be subject to the freeze effect?

I can see it freezing the slot when there is no weapon there would also make sense (hence "good point")

Voodoo Doll copies the damage and status effects not transfers.

Shields do not have activated abilities yet. If they have some in the future maybe. All weapon abilities are stopped because they are either activated abilities or trigger when the frozen Elemental would have attacked.

[Ignion]

k3Jeff,

I don't agree with that. Freeze effect only lasts 3 turns.
Getting past RoL/Hope? I think that'd be great actually. Great games give more ways to counter each other's strategies, not limit.