*Author

oki

  • Guest
Bugs/Imbalance https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=24.msg753#msg753
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2009, 10:09:30 pm »

Alright it is clearly imbalanced as I ran into a combination which cannot be countered and fills up Bone Wall with new charges. I did about 30 dmg per turn and still lost. That and the targeting bug make Deflagration almost useless in a few critical situations. There are also quite a few additional bugs.


oaky180

  • Guest
Bugs/Imbalance https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=24.msg1046#msg1046
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2009, 10:09:31 pm »

If you spam monsters you can take it down in one turn. Like a FFQ deck for instance. Rainbow decks work very well too.

Macintosh

  • Guest
Bugs/Imbalance https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=24.msg1253#msg1253
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2009, 10:09:32 pm »

i think the FFQ ability is adding up so when they decide to use it they can use it how ever many times it could have been used but wasnt in past turns.
That may be the explanation. If it's not a bug I'd suggest to lower health of the Firefly Queen from 7 to 6 to make it easier to kill her then while she is stocking up charges.
FFQ's charges don't stack up. If you don't use it, you can't use it multiple times. That would be a bug, although I have never seen it happen.

oki

  • Guest
Bugs/Imbalance https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=24.msg1254#msg1254
« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2009, 10:09:32 pm »

Still the only card that can disable a deck completely and can be filled up with additional charges, which it will. Should either be increased to 5 charges with deflagration, and/or additonal charges reduced from 2 to 1 charges per creature. Preferably Deflagration should just work like with any other artifact.


oki

  • Guest
Bugs/Imbalance https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=24.msg1784#msg1784
« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2009, 10:09:34 pm »

Made screenshots of the FFQ exploit.

In the round before the screenshot was made I used Fire Storm to remove a few of his creatures, and there was only one FFQ left on the board. Suddenly 7 new creatures come into play, which as you may notice could've not been cast. 7 cards in the hand.

http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/7246/emeralds1.png

In the next round 7 additional creatures come into play, and 3 additional Emphatic Bonds. 6 cards in the hand.

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/89/emeralds2.png

de_spy

  • Guest
Bugs/Imbalance https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=24.msg2016#msg2016
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2009, 10:09:35 pm »

I'm saying nothing new, but it really would be too easy if a strategy or deck would exist which is good in every situation without any weaknesses.
So your deck seems to have problems against bone wallers, but that's okay, cos bone walls also have a huge weakness against fireballs, drain life or ice bolts. You can also slow a bone wall deck down with the abilities and effects of devourers, earth quakes, steal or deflag if you use them against such targets as boneyard, pillars and so on. Try to stop the production of those small creatures and you'll have much less problems ;]

de_spy

  • Guest
Bugs/Imbalance https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=24.msg2017#msg2017
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2009, 10:09:35 pm »

Made screenshots of the FFQ exploit.

In the round before the screenshot was made I used Fire Storm to remove a few of his creatures, and there was only one FFQ left on the board. Suddenly 7 new creatures come into play, which as you may notice could've not been cast. 7 cards in the hand.

http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/7246/emeralds1.png

In the next round 7 additional creatures come into play, and 3 additional Emphatic Bonds. 6 cards in the hand.

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/89/emeralds2.png
Did this happen in a PvP-game? If yes, this obviously happened due to desynchronisation...

JTWood

  • Guest
Bugs/Imbalance https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=24.msg2018#msg2018
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2009, 10:09:35 pm »

Would suggest to increase it to 5 charges, or maybe 3 as a compromise, and also display a warning so that a card is not wasted.
I was frustrated the first time I realized that deflag doesn't work on Bone Wall, but I think it's important for balance to the game.

The only thing I think is overvalued about Bone Wall is that it adds 2 walls per creature death.

oki

  • Guest
Bugs/Imbalance https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=24.msg2019#msg2019
« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2009, 10:09:35 pm »

Changing either one is fine.

oki

  • Guest
Bugs/Imbalance https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=24.msg2020#msg2020
« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2009, 10:09:35 pm »

I agree that every deck has a weak matchup, maybe more, but Bone Wall is the only one where it's imbalanced. You can neither destroy the creatures nor Bone Wall. Previously Phase Shield was a bit of a weak matchup. It can be destroyed, but if there were 6 of them in the deck it was difficult to counter still. Fortunately the new card Sundial is a bit of a soft counter as it basically disables 2 of the 3 turns.

oki

  • Guest
Bugs/Imbalance https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=24.msg2021#msg2021
« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2009, 10:09:35 pm »

The problem with Bone Wall is that it's very easy to fill up. The situation is that I have creatures on the board, and the opponent has creatures on the board, usually many small HP creatures, and plays Bone Wall. I cannot destroy his creatures because that will fill up Bone Wall, so they will keep attacking me while my creatures are busy with Bone Wall. There are also quite a few other cards which the opponent can use to fill it up himself. No hard counter for that, which is imbalanced. Shields are a bit too good in general, but that's what Deflegration is for, if it would work with Bone Wall.

Removing 3 charges with Deflagration would already help slightly.

Tobriand

  • Guest
Bugs/Imbalance https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=24.msg2022#msg2022
« Reply #23 on: December 15, 2009, 10:09:35 pm »

On the bone wall issue, it doesn't feel too imbalanced to me, but that could be because I expect to swarm sooner or later. Bone wall is weak to the number of creatures, not the quantity of damage anyway... if you're relying on, say, 5 heavily boosted creatures then essentially your deck is weak against a bone-wall. On the other hand, if you play a bone wall deck, then your deck is very weak indeed to a swarm deck - 24 fireflies eat through that wall like no tomorrow.

Finding a hole in your deck isn't a reason to cry imbalance, but it is a reason to try and tune your deck to take account of weaknesses you've discovered in it. Add a boneyard or two and a rain of fire, or some plague abilities, and you'll soon eliminate your enemies' creatures, and the subsequent influx of skeletons will batter any increase in their wall like crazy. Or add a steal, steal one bone wall, and then destroy all their creatures (plague or whatnot)... you'll be nearly as well protected as your opponent is.

That said, one thing I do find silly is the way the AI continually does try and deflagrate and steal bone walls if you have them, when it often has much better targets to choose from given bone wall's difficulty to destroy with spells.

Of course, as and when a card of the flavour "return target, and cards initially identical to target to their owners' decks" comes into existence, if bone wall is immune to THAT, *then* I'll be surprised. That would be incorrect.

 

blarg: