BUG W/ GOLDEN HOURGLASS! MUST FIX!!!

[de_spy]

Please just read the game rules first: http://elementsthegame.com/rules.html (http://elementsthegame.com/rules.html)

Point 4:

4- You win a game when your opponent's HP are reduced to zero or when he has no more cards to play.

The other way around: you lose, when you have no more cards to play!

So this obviously is no bug - it was just your fault to try to draw another card...

[Kaythal]

I'm pointing out something that I'm sure the designer didn't want to have happen. 

I don't understand how can you be so SURE. Do you live in his head? Can you read his mind?

I'm giving you a precedent: in MTG if you activate an artifact that makes you draw and you don't have any more cards, you lose. How can you be SURE Zanz doesn't want to do the same here?

[Macintosh]

This game is based on strategy, and it's your mistake if you draw and kill yourself, saving your opponent from your sure victory.

[RyzukiSenshi]

I was playing a game against an AI opponent.  It was late in the game, the opponent had less than 10 health, and I had around 10 creatures out; he was going to die at the end of my turn and it was my turn.  I had zero cards left in my library and, not realizing this, I clicked on the Golden Hourglass to draw a card and it instantly made me lose the game.  I'm almost certain this has to do with the fact that the code doesn't check to see if the drawing of a card happens at the beginning of a turn (it simply sees that there are no more cards to draw when one is trying to be drawn, which, in most cases, would be in the beginning of a turn resulting in a loss).  The player shouldn't be allowed to try and draw a card if there are no cards left in said player's library.  This really isn't too much of a problem as it most likely wouldn't happen very often, but the fact that it CAN happen is no good.

[RyzukiSenshi]

This has nothing to do with strategy.  This isn't something I'm just ranting about because I don't like it.  I'm pointing out something that I'm sure the designer didn't want to have happen.  I couldn't really care less if it stays the way it is because I won't let it happen to myself again.  I'm just trying to help the designer make the game better based on how I'm sure he wants it to work.  A player shouldn't lose a game just because he accidentally clicked the Golden Hourglass when there were no cards to draw, especially since it's possible to click on it by mistake when it's not even the card you meant to click on.

[RyzukiSenshi]

Please just read the game rules first: http://elementsthegame.com/rules.html

Point 4:
Quote
4- You win a game when your opponent's HP are reduced to zero or when he has no more cards to play.

The other way around: you lose, when you have no more cards to play!

So this obviously is no bug - it was just your fault to try to draw another card...

No, I guarantee you that's not the way the designer intended it to work.  That's just poor wording on his part (or he just didn't explain it enough).  It makes no sense to be able to kill yourself, even if by accident, just by trying to draw a card using an ability when there are none to draw.  It's the same with Magic: The Gathering; there are tons of cards that allow the player to draw more cards during his turn, but you just wouldn't be able to use them if you didn't have any cards left in your library.  It's an issue with the fact that this game is digital; it's not possible to take something back that you can't possibly do (and shouldn't be able to do in the first place).  Clearly, this game is far from being "finished" and most likely never will be since it is theoretically infinitely expandable, so there will obviously be bugs like this at such an early stage in the games life, especially when it's a hard-to-find bug such as this.  The rules will continue to develop and become more detailed as the development of the game progresses.

[Site Administrator]

WELL DONE FOR SHOUTING YOUR TITLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But surely it would be common sense that you can't draw a card when you have no cards to draw? Although I do agree, it should check, because you could be about to win when you do it. How annoying would that be?

[BiJay]

It's the same with Magic: The Gathering; there are tons of cards that allow the player to draw more cards during his turn, but you just wouldn't be able to use them if you didn't have any cards left in your library.

That's wrong. You can play spells or activated abilities if you have no cards in your library to draw a card. If the spell or ability resolves you lose the game. (I'm a magic pro player so you can trust me.)

[Kaythal]

Maybe it's coz i had a bad day, but I cannot stay quiet...

Do you guys (the author and who's following him) realize you're just saying: "I'm too dumb to check how many cards i have left, can you please make a more complicated program that can play for me? So i can pwnzor with ma uber deck!!!111"

[Mikhail Mengsk]

Come on, an ability/card/spell that allows you to draw a card should simply don't work if you have no cards to draw...

[Tobriand]

There are all sorts of reasons why this should not be fixed. The most obvious is that it's not a bug - it's just a place where the player is unshielded... like using a cutthroat razor, it's much more dangerous, but the result feels more genuine.

However, there's also another reason: Future cards.
In particular, assuming Elements stays alive long enough to start developing expansions to the slightly insane degree that MTG has done, sooner or later there are bound to be cards which force your opponent to draw (and if they're suipposed to be offensive, probably discard) cards, cards which allow you to play as your opponent for the next turn (and thus sabotage them), cards which allow you to draw from your opponent's deck rather than your own, and most importantly, cards which damage an opponent at the end of THEIR turn, rather than at the beginning of yours (because they might then have an opportunity to play one of the draw-effecting cards prior to losing at the end of their turn, and turn the game around). All not needed at this stage in Elements' life, but all making for very interesting play as both creators and players get bored with the current selection.

Keep the safety barriers off...