Post by: maverixk on June 15, 2011, 05:39:45 pm
Post by: Calindu on June 15, 2011, 05:42:30 pm
Post by: Jocko on June 15, 2011, 05:43:40 pm
Post by: Higurashi on June 15, 2011, 05:47:00 pm
Post by: maverixk on June 15, 2011, 05:50:16 pm
Post by: Jappert on June 15, 2011, 05:55:15 pm
Another reason why web, no the most fearsome ability of all, is never discussed is because the two creatures using it (phase and flesh recluses) have a great damage:cost ratio. The creatures are strong for their cost and the web ability is just a little extra something.
Needless to say I voted for no change.
Post by: Toxx on August 09, 2011, 12:57:36 pm
Web is, in my opinion, very useful as it is. It's not so much underused as it is underdiscussed. It hasn' t been subject of discussion much because it's fine as it is.I agree with him. Maybe more would be done with air cards and it's ability in the game future too.
Another reason why web, no the most fearsome ability of all, is never discussed is because the two creatures using it (phase and flesh recluses) have a great damage:cost ratio. The creatures are strong for their cost and the web ability is just a little extra something.
Needless to say I voted for no change.
Post by: Atico on August 09, 2011, 01:53:29 pm
Quote
The delay feature only works if the creature is airborneIdea of buffing Web is good, but we should promote airborne, airborne mustn't be a penalty! So quoted text is very bad idea.
Post by: dragonsdemesne on August 10, 2011, 12:09:27 am
Post by: omegareaper7 on August 10, 2011, 12:37:39 am
I don't think we need a web upgrade, we just need more relevant uses for airborne. Currently, all it does it get around wings and get a bonus from sky blitz. Once we get more cards that refer to airborne, web will be better. I;m not sure when that will be, I have played since March and haven't seen any new cards added yet, but supposedly some new shards are in the works; no idea how long that will be, though.And prevents Guard from damaging them. ::)
Post by: dragonsdemesne on August 10, 2011, 03:56:18 am
Post by: Pineapple on August 10, 2011, 04:16:49 am
Post by: Naesala on August 10, 2011, 10:59:11 pm
Post by: Jocko on August 11, 2011, 02:50:18 am
Post by: maverixk on August 11, 2011, 02:54:01 am
further damage from recently played creatures, but that's just fine.What?
Post by: Pineapple on August 11, 2011, 03:26:30 am
You can't web them until they've already attacked once.further damage from recently played creatures, but that's just fine.What?
Everyone's bringing up how web would be better if airborne was more useful, but if airborne was useful, would this flavor buff make web OP? Why can't we have both?
Post by: Submachine on December 18, 2013, 09:08:42 pm
I think they should both target airborne creatures with 100% accuracy. This ability's point is to prevent SoFree abuse and penetrating through wings, so an airborne creature that is protected by 4+ SoFrees should be able to be targeted too. I know that this would create a loophole in logic, but balance-wise, this may work.
What do you think? I put up a poll.
Post by: farscape on December 18, 2013, 09:17:38 pm
SoFre is OP, so I'd support this. You could claim, that throwing a web does not need precise targeting, i.e. the flying creature flies into the web if its placed anywhere within its trajectory.
Post by: dragtom on December 18, 2013, 09:45:15 pm
Those airborne creatures never saw it coming
I like this idea.
Post by: timetock on December 19, 2013, 05:55:48 am
Post by: Keolino on December 19, 2013, 07:02:47 am
Post by: Submachine on January 18, 2014, 01:47:23 pm
Post by: grimdragon64 on January 18, 2014, 09:06:09 pm
Anyways, if it wasn't 100% already I'm supporting this.
Post by: Pineapple on January 18, 2014, 09:11:30 pm
So it wasn't always 100% accuracy? Huh..
Anyways, if it wasn't 100% already I'm supporting this.
It's 100% accuracy unless the airborne creature is Air and its controller also owns copies of Shard of Freedom.
Post by: Submachine on January 18, 2014, 09:17:08 pm
Edit: for :air creatures only. SoFree only protects airborne :air creatures from targetting, but web still needs to hit those.
Post by: dark ripper on January 18, 2014, 09:20:38 pm
Post by: grimdragon64 on January 18, 2014, 09:39:59 pm
Post by: HiresDaedalus on January 29, 2014, 02:00:42 am
Post by: Zergva on January 29, 2014, 08:07:00 pm
I, Web: Next attacking airborne creature loses it's airborne ability (additive). Can be used multiple times per turn.
II, Web: Every airborne creature loses it's airborne ability. Lasts 1 turn.
And as you can see, there's a bit buffing on this ability. Coz, it's need it.
Post by: Submachine on January 30, 2014, 12:27:09 am
Hmm... It's not really a good idea to make an exception only for 1 card
Say it to this card:
It makes exception for all airborne :air creatures, not just 1 card.
Post by: Zergva on January 30, 2014, 11:44:01 am
Hmm... It's not really a good idea to make an exception only for 1 card
Say it to this card:
It makes exception for all airborne :air creatures, not just 1 card.
The 'can't be evaded' (because the change is equivalent to that) is only for 1 card.
The Holy Light is not for 1 card, but has a potential with 1 card. In upped, it's a cheap CC against :death :darkness with a + healing.
Post by: omegareaper7 on January 30, 2014, 03:44:34 pm
One card that is currently overpowered, and one ability that, as it stands now, is useless to most decks. Made even worse now that most mono/duo airs use shard of freedom.Hmm... It's not really a good idea to make an exception only for 1 card
Say it to this card:
It makes exception for all airborne :air creatures, not just 1 card.
The 'can't be evaded' (because the change is equivalent to that) is only for 1 card.
The Holy Light is not for 1 card, but has a potential with 1 card. In upped, it's a cheap CC against :death :darkness with a + healing.
Post by: Submachine on January 30, 2014, 05:05:12 pm
Post by: Zergva on January 30, 2014, 06:40:09 pm
One card that is currently overpowered, and one ability that, as it stands now, is useless to most decks. Made even worse now that most mono/duo airs use shard of freedom.Hmm... It's not really a good idea to make an exception only for 1 card
Say it to this card:
It makes exception for all airborne :air creatures, not just 1 card.
The 'can't be evaded' (because the change is equivalent to that) is only for 1 card.
The Holy Light is not for 1 card, but has a potential with 1 card. In upped, it's a cheap CC against :death :darkness with a + healing.
I've changed my mind, because if we overbuff the Web ability, the :air + :aether duo will be a terror (chaining 6 Dim. shield and 6 Wings will be 48 turn defense and quintessence on the spider will be a big lock ).
Not a metabreaker, not a big bang, makes a card a bit more useful and I'm always thought that these creatures only got good stats to compensate the ability. So I agree with this slight buff.
Post by: Aneninen on May 16, 2014, 06:41:20 am
I've changed my mind, because if we overbuff the Web ability, the :air + :aether duo will be a terror (chaining 6 Dim. shield and 6 Wings will be 48 turn defense and quintessence on the spider will be a big lock ).
Quint-ing the Spiders slows the things down since you have to draw both cards. The Spiders are not sturdy at all, without immortality they can be taken out easily. Also, the shields themselves can be removed too and the whole concept is worth nothing against Momentum.
Post by: Leodip on May 16, 2014, 12:48:55 pm
I support this BTW
Post by: Espithel on May 17, 2014, 01:16:10 am
I question how much the change will actually do, given how web is given to the two elements who honestly don't need it.
Earth and life are two entirely different stories...
Eh, support.
Post by: Ginyu on August 16, 2014, 05:11:56 pm
Post by: Shinki12345 on September 22, 2014, 05:46:05 pm
Post by: Robsta43 on November 25, 2014, 11:46:58 pm
Then I read the post and realized the proposed buff wouldn't really make web or the creatures that use it any more powerful then they are right now, rather what we have is creating counter play to a currently OP combo that needs counter play. Therefore I agree, yes, do this buff please.
SoFree will still be good against any deck that doesn't have spiders, and against decks that have spiders without :air (such as mono-death rushes).
Post by: bossitron on November 26, 2014, 09:03:37 am
Post by: Platformz on January 10, 2015, 01:50:38 pm
Post by: Espithel on January 13, 2015, 08:19:20 am
I agree "Web" needs buffing, but giving 100% accuracy would just make Wings too powerful. People can play 6 SoFrees (Which is 150%), if "Web" had -75% for the effect of SoFree, having 6 would mean 25% chance to hit :air creatures. There is 100% chance hit on 1-3 SoFrees though. With this it means you get what you wan't but you can't abuse it.
Wings + spider isn't a commonly used deck, regardless of whether SouFflé is in its meta, or not.
Post by: CrockettRocket on January 13, 2015, 05:53:01 pm
I agree "Web" needs buffing, but giving 100% accuracy would just make Wings too powerful. People can play 6 SoFrees (Which is 150%), if "Web" had -75% for the effect of SoFree, having 6 would mean 25% chance to hit :air creatures. There is 100% chance hit on 1-3 SoFrees though. With this it means you get what you wan't but you can't abuse it.
It would be OP in pvp1 sure, where the players dont know how to vs Wings.
Just amass quanta and airbourne creatures. Because we're talking about web, we'll assume you have airbourne creatures. Therfore the web ability wouldnt be OP with 100% accuracy on airborne creatures because its easy to play around wings. However it is very very frustrating as the wings player when you go to web an opponent who laid down a bunch of creatures then half your webs miss, only blocking ~1/4 of their creatures and you get bursted down.
Post by: Platformz on January 14, 2015, 03:57:31 pm
It would be annoying, sure. But note that SoFree isn't used too often. Chances are, you can still end up with a good winning streak in PvP. The Arena, however is a different story.I agree "Web" needs buffing, but giving 100% accuracy would just make Wings too powerful. People can play 6 SoFrees (Which is 150%), if "Web" had -75% for the effect of SoFree, having 6 would mean 25% chance to hit :air creatures. There is 100% chance hit on 1-3 SoFrees though. With this it means you get what you wan't but you can't abuse it.
It would be OP in pvp1 sure, where the players dont know how to vs Wings.Just amass quanta and airbourne creatures. Because we're talking about web, we'll assume you have airbourne creatures. Therfore the web ability wouldnt be OP with 100% accuracy on airborne creatures because its easy to play around wings. However it is very very frustrating as the wings player when you go to web an opponent who laid down a bunch of creatures then half your webs miss, only blocking ~1/4 of their creatures and you get bursted down.
My idea now is for when 6 SoFrees are played, the % increase stops so it won't be really OP. This can open a potential for Fractal.
P.S. Plague and Thunderstorm can be used as CC.
Post by: Sera on January 16, 2015, 01:10:05 pm
And of course, SoFr is in need of a nerf in its current state, and seeing that it's the only card affected by 100% web, I don't see how this is a bad idea.
Post by: Platformz on January 16, 2015, 04:04:13 pm
I guess I support this a bit more now. ;)
Post by: CrockettRocket on January 16, 2015, 06:34:12 pm
also, web is for passives on target creature, not actives.
Post by: omegareaper7 on January 16, 2015, 10:43:31 pm
Making it 100% doesn't make Wings too powerful. It only puts it back to the current meta in the shardless environment. Wings + web is rarely even used in competitive PVP. While on arena, a deck that doesn't have a way around a full block shield will suck anyway (Dim Shield says hello).Decks don't need a card to get around shields to do fine, they are just screwed in the event shields do pop up usually.
And of course, SoFr is in need of a nerf in its current state, and seeing that it's the only card affected by 100% web, I don't see how this is a bad idea.
I agree though, give it 100% chance to remove airborne, no reason not to.
Post by: Platformz on January 17, 2015, 05:32:12 am
Spiders/recluses spit webs out into the air. An air creature "dives" down, dodging the web. So web doesn't, and shouldn't, remove dive.Sorry. I meant that if a creature does get hit by a web, it cannot fly anymore so it cannot use "dive" since it is already on the ground.
also, web is for passives on target creature, not actives.
Also, even if "web" is meant for hitting passives, not being able to fly stops you from diving down from above. Same reason why Sky Blitz does not work on non-flying creatures.
Post by: dawn to dusk on January 17, 2015, 05:41:21 am
cos why not?
yes this is a bad idea and yes i know that full well while posting this
Post by: Platformz on January 17, 2015, 06:00:13 am
target with <3 health will get delayed for 1 turn XDEh. Why not? It sounds good. :D
cos why not?
yes this is a bad idea and yes i know that full well while posting this
Post by: seulintse on May 30, 2015, 03:59:39 am
That being said, I'd like to say that I think using webbed on a pegasus or a wyrm should prevent it from using dive. Also, even though its probably because they (various opponents) are using mitosis and I'm kinda indenial (I don't know if this is working like mitosis says, making it generate a copy of the creatures card, appearing just like it had been summoned from your hand with flying on it, or if players really are using PU | TU on webbed creatures and coming up with flying creautures).
Post by: Treldon on May 30, 2015, 04:49:19 pm
Lack of flying≠Diving
That being said, I'd like to say that I think using webbed on a pegasus or a wyrm should prevent it from using dive. Also, even though its probably because they (various opponents) are using mitosis and I'm kinda indenial (I don't know if this is working like mitosis says, making it generate a copy of the creatures card, appearing just like it had been summoned from your hand with flying on it, or if players really are using PU | TU on webbed creatures and coming up with flying creautures).
I have moved your post here because it can be considered a buff for Web.
That being said, I do not necessarily agree with you. I understand your logic that normally a flying creature would dive onto its target. But another creature could climb a rock, tree, etc and jump onto its target, thus having the same effect. Also, I believe Mutation can create non-flying creatures with Dive ability (need confirmation of it though)
Post by: seulintse on May 30, 2015, 04:55:28 pm
and jump off of it and use "dive" for two air quanta or something or, better yet, use 2 gravity for the same effect... it just, just... no. EDIT: 1. thx for moving the post, treldon, prolly should've looked (this thread is so old its here from the last time I played elements, like seven months ago or something) and 2. I have confirmed (A.K.A. saw it with my own eyes ;P ) that using PU on a webbed creature still gives the copy flying.
Post by: Espithel on May 30, 2015, 05:00:35 pm
I know we're talking about elements here, but by that logic you could have a graviton mercenary climb onto a
(http://i.imgur.com/Uhn07mR.png)
I don't see your point. Jumping off of a massive dragon to dive seems plausible.
Post by: seulintse on May 30, 2015, 05:05:37 pm
Post by: Treldon on May 30, 2015, 05:10:31 pm
Completely plausible. Not necessarily a good idea, but it can be done.
Plus in my example it's nowhere as fatal a dive as from a Massive Dragon. Just an Aerial Takedown or something.
birds IRL (yes, I know elements is an extremely abstract game, and I appreciate that) that dive for their prey, like eagles, tend to use their wings to glide, or at least stop themselves from dying on face-plant-contact. Point is that at least something should be done for creatures still using dive ability after not being able to fly. There's a reason that only flying creatures are affected by sky blitz.
Hawks: they dive onto their target, grab it, then fall down (controlled fall, but still fall) with the prey to the ground, never once releasing it.
But as I said, you don't have to go to fatal heights to increase damage done. If you jump down from the first floor (being the first floor above ground level) onto someone, you can easily survive with no harm. Your target not so much...
Post by: TeRevised on September 01, 2019, 04:31:34 pm
"Target Creature gets -1|0 and loses Airborne state. Dive is thus disabled."
Dive text:
"Double this unit's Attack for this turn if it's Airborne".