Elements the Game Forum - Free Online Fantasy Card Game
Elements the Game => Game Suggestions and Feedback => Buff This Card! => Topic started by: Taffer on March 08, 2011, 09:09:40 pm
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I didn't want to duplicate the same poll and the same problem many times so I decided to make a single combined topic.
(http://images.wikia.com/elementsthegame/images/d/d3/ShardBlue.png)(http://images.wikia.com/elementsthegame/images/5/5a/Green_Shard.png)(http://images.wikia.com/elementsthegame/images/f/fd/Yellow_Shard.png)
(http://images.wikia.com/elementsthegame/images/1/11/Relic.png)(http://i.imgur.com/PAPtY.png)(http://images.wikia.com/elementsthegame/images/e/ec/Relic_%28Upgraded%29.png)
I know the purpose of these cards and I don't want to make them precious cards to play. My only problem that there is a misleading cost information on them so you can believe that you can play them. Who didn't place the first won shard into a deck to try it? ;) (Not counting the ones who read the forum... or the wiki... or know the trainer... ok, don't answer!) ;D
It's clear that they must not worth to use them in a deck but I think that they should be playable. Just to do something or just for fun. Anyway, how could it be that you cannot play a card? :P
My suggestions:
Shards should just demonstrate the capabilities of their upgraded version, without any real usefulness:
Blue Shard: Add 2 HPs to your maximum life points.
Green Shard: Heal yourself for up to 1 HPs at the end of every turn. (should be a permanent card, similarly to the upgraded version)
Yellow Shard: The target creature's skill cost is reduced by 1 if it is >= 2
In my opinion Relics should generally remain what they are: valuable cards to sell them instead of playing with them. But I think they could represent their "once valued artifact" nature by turning into a random mark card if played:
- 40% to turn into a mark card matching your element
- 30% to turn into another random mark card
- 30% to turn into a quantum pillar/tower
So with an unupped relic you would have a small chance to produce an indestructible pillar-like card but apart from that it would be quite unreliable. Though it would be fun, I guess. :D
UPDATE:
I have locked the voting. It seems (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,28840.144.html) that new shards will come in play so every element will have a specific shard. The old ones will be moved to existing elements. Good news:
- All 12 shards will be usable unupped, but the upped versions will be easier/better to use
I hope that also Relic will meet a similar change soon. ;)
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Oh, but you CAN play them. Just that the effect is different than the card text:
"When you play this card it goes back into your hand"
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But what you're proposing doesn't seem half bad either.
EDIT: On further thoughts, it might be bad as then we'd have all the new "Buff this card" topics...
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Calling the artifacts "shards" seems to suggest they're a piece of something. Maybe they could be 1-quantum spells that do nothing on their own -- but playing enough shards in one turn (four?) would have the same effect as playing the upgraded version of one of those shards (either picked at random, or whichever type most of them were).
It probably isn't possible to do anything like that with the relics -- it seems they don't remember what card they replaced in the slots. Maybe they could provide another way of earning "a few coins" -- playing one would have a negative effect (although that could just be the loss of some quanta, and the fact that you could have drawn a useful card instead), but if you managed to play it and still win, you'd get a bigger electrum reward.
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They have a sort of unintentional use as a Pestal/BH counter, if all the right variables are hit >.>"
I'm not to sure about giving them watered down abilities though, maybe they should be able to be played on the field and each one can add +5 electrum to your winnings?
( 6 * 5 ) + ( 6 * 5 ) + ( 6 * 5 ) + ( 6 * 5 ) = 120 :electrum
not that you can put all of them on the field at once hahaha
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I like the idea.
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Calling the artifacts "shards" seems to suggest they're a piece of something.
That thought inspired me, too. They are just not grown (or what can a shard do :) ) so they are highly ineffective.
It probably isn't possible to do anything like that with the relics -- it seems they don't remember what card they replaced in the slots.
Yes, in most cases relics were nymphs and not marks but generating nymphs were too powerful. That's why I suggested just generating a random mark card.
Maybe they could provide another way of earning "a few coins" -- playing one would have a negative effect (although that could just be the loss of some quanta, and the fact that you could have drawn a useful card instead), but if you managed to play it and still win, you'd get a bigger electrum reward.
I like this version, too. Maybe they should be permanents and the negative effect could be destroying a random pillar (if you have any). But in this case they would be valuable cards to play that I wanted to avoid originally (think the ones who have sold all of their relics - don't make them mad at you :) )
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I agree totally with shards suggestions!
(maybe green shard would be 'you may gain 1 hp at the end of turn'50%chance; shard of readiness 'reset target creatures ability')
Relics maybe should worth more money.They can do something like add 2random quanta|3 random quanta.
So that at least they pay for themselves^^
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i definitely think that relic should do something. i find it annoying when i come across these after beating an opponent as i am far past the point where 65 electrum will be any help. if not for noobs then for all the mid range players and veterans, please give it a minor ability. or at least let it upgrade into something.
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for relic, i believe that you should be able play relic and target it with reverse time. if it is targeted with reverse time, then it becomes a random creature, so that way it has a point, AND you could include it in a skeleton/reverse time deck :D
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For the Shards, I think they are good as is, though the ideas you propse aren't bad ideas. What I think Zanz was intending with them being useful only upgraded is that he doesn't want to make such effects too versatile. He even said that Gratitude and Divinity in his opinion were starting to cause issues like healing being less of an elemental thing as intended. Though I'm a little fond of Gratitude I can agree on that.
for relic, i believe that you should be able play relic and target it with reverse time. if it is targeted with reverse time, then it becomes a random creature, so that way it has a point, AND you could include it in a skeleton/reverse time deck :D
I like that, it would be like Nymph Tears on a Quantum Pillar, spawning a random Nymph or turning into a random Mark.
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Agreed with relic suggestions.
adding a mark/pillar sounds perfect; and up them also means something :)
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I think that the relic should cost more when sold at the bazaar.
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for relic, i believe that you should be able play relic and target it with reverse time. if it is targeted with reverse time, then it becomes a random creature, so that way it has a point, AND you could include it in a skeleton/reverse time deck :D
Per the card's text flavor it should turn into a random creature or permanent.
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They are fine as they are.... Shards: You learn after 1 game, that you have to wait for upgrade. Relic: Great source of money. I was always very happy to get a few relics as a new player. Don't think it should be changed.
As for the proposed changes, you'd need more consistency:
SoD->Blue Shard : 20->2 : Down to 10%
SoG->Green Shard: 5->1 : Down to 20%
SoR->Yellow Shard: Idk the average cost for creature abilities, but I think it's pretty close to 2. Hence 2->1 : Down to 50%
Thats some great inconsistency. I don't think you can ever find a good way to balance them, besides leaving them as they are.
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They are fine as they are.... Shards: You learn after 1 game, that you have to wait for upgrade. Relic: Great source of money. I was always very happy to get a few relics as a new player. Don't think it should be changed.
As for the proposed changes, you'd need more consistency:
SoD->Blue Shard : 20->2 : Down to 10%
SoG->Green Shard: 5->1 : Down to 20%
SoR->Yellow Shard: Idk the average cost for creature abilities, but I think it's pretty close to 2. Hence 2->1 : Down to 50%
Thats some great inconsistency. I don't think you can ever find a good way to balance them, besides leaving them as they are.
Using the same logic you can show similar "inconsistency" among the new scorpions or nymphs. I don't think that balancing the percentages would make much sense; my only goal was not to make them valuable cards to play. It seems that yellow shard would be more powerful than the others but in truth it wouldn't have any effect on most creatures.
It is clear that recent state of these cards is inconsistent: they are marked as spells and they have cost but you are unable to play them as they remain in your hand. If you vote for consistency but without any effect, then choose poll option 2 or 3.
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What do you mean, inconsistency among scorpions and nymphs? They seem pretty balanced. By your suggestions, the only Shard, which would make sense to use, would be the Yellow Shard, the others are just waste of space in the deck.
I voted option one. Consistent without any effect. You learn to wait for them.
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What do you mean, inconsistency among scorpions and nymphs?
No, I don't mean they are inconsistent. I said inconsistency could be shown among them using similar logic. But forget it, I admit that it wasn't a good example. ;D
I voted option one. Consistent without any effect.
I'm telling you a secret: I created option one to isolate a "control group" of voters. I thought that inconsistency of these cards is so obvious that (until now) I considered members of this group the ones who just clicked without even reading the post. Since you have apparently read it, I have to rethink the whole thing. :P
But seriously, how can you consider a card to be consistent when it tells you that it's a spell for 1 random quantum and it still cannot be played? If it's agreed that shards and relics aren't for playing, then I think option 2 or 3 would be the only reasonable choices.
My suggestions tried to be some "not too breaking changes" :D just for fun. So you are right, they should remain just "waste of space in the deck" until they are upgraded. I'm really surprised that they are more accepted than I awaited... :D
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It might be bothering for new players, 'oh cool, a rare' and then 'crap, this is useless...'.
However having useless spells (when all are consistently useless) is better than buffing 1 out of the 3. Only SoR would have some use in your new suggestion. So I think it's the best to leave them as they are.
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voted for making them 1-cost spells that do nothing. might seem stupid, but at least they will no longer clog up the hand of players than put them in their deck. (Let the unupped shard farms pop all over T50!)
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Maybe Relic could have like a Pandemonium affect, except on one creature. It starts as a spell, then you choose a creature, and the potion of a random element affects it, ranging from rage pot to liquid shadow.
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I believe Zanzarino has stated that Relics will never, EVER become useful. This is so that people can sell them without fear that they will ever have a use. Disagree with Relics suggestion, agree with shards (although yellow shard may be too powerful).
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I have locked the voting due to the recently announced shard changes, see update in OP.
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if Relic is meant to be sold,let's at least it be worth of 303 :electrum (one third of a nynph).
With it selling at 65 I'd rather keep them and grind 20 minutes;I'd sell them only if i need of quick cash to up a card, and you need 23 unupped relics and 1 :electrum to upgrade a card!
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I think all shards should stay the same but I kinda like the idea with the relics, I would like all the relics to stay as is for now for a possible better usefullness in the future then what you have said
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If nothing else, the price of the upgraded Relic needs a boost.
You can sell it for 1025, and that's 131 lower than even a tower sells for.
Please?
(edit: spelling error fixed)
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Is it possible to get an upgraded Relic other than by upgrading it yourself? If not, it definitely needs a buff -- since it can't be played and sells for less than the 1500 :electrum spent to upgrade it, its existence serves only to trick some players into losing 540.
I remember when unupped Relics used to sell for 101 :electrum instead of 65. Maybe the upped Relics could sell for 1601 -- it's still a square plus the quanta cost of 1, and would allow players to decide whether they want 65 per Relic now or 101 per Relic once they can upgrade a card (or if they're close to 1500 :electrum, how many Relics to sell unupped in order to collect the bonus on the rest).
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You can get upped relics from any FG that uses nymphs, such as Dark Matter, Serket and Dream Catcher.
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This is irrelevant now with the release of Beta.
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This is irrelevant now with the release of Beta.
That's why I closed the vote. Mission accomplished. :D
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Every shard needs a massive thematic buff. A little piece of rock which arbitrarily does x effect is literally the most boring card idea I have ever seen in my life. Why are so many of these being made? All of them cost :rainbow and most of them aren't even affiliated with any element- their cost is even devoid of anything interesting (which also promotes rainbow decks and those dreadful quantum pillars but that's another story).
I mean some of these abilities are kind of interesting, couldn't they be worked in in a cool way?
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NOOOOO!!!! Some shards are arguably the most powerful shards in the game!
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Shards are hopelessly overpowered. If we buff them, there's a larger chance they will be banned from leagues and tournaments. I think all of the shards should be free and twice as powerful!
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All shards are being tied to an element. Currently we can see the :darkness :death :entropy :life :light :time :water shards.
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Wow did any one of you besides OldTrees even read anything but the title. I said thematic buff. I think they need to be made more interesting, not more powerful.
I like that they're being affiliated with certain elements more, and I didn't deny this in the OP, but that doesn't change the fact that they're still boring as ass.
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A thematic buff could be just a refined explanation of how they are able to do what they do. We will not need to change the mechanics.
Currently they are neutral objects whose effects can be magnified by exposure to particular elements. Most of them are associated with a Virtue. Nothing else (thematically) about them has been explained
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I just can't wait to see what he comes up for the :air shard. It can be made very interesting to finally take use of the adavantage of being :air or very dull.
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For Relics, this has been the idea floating around in my head for a while:
Change the sale price of the upgraded Relic so that it is more than the sale price of the unupgraded relic plus 1.5k electrum (not a lot more, maybe ~50 or 60). Then, if you do not have the money to upgrade it right away, the choice is yours - do you need the money now, or can you wait to get to 1500 electrum so that you can get extra profit from it?
EDIT: I was too late.
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My idea: Make the sale prices of upgraded relics 1.5k so people who get them from FGs can replace them with a upped card of their choosing while not letting them make a profit upping and selling relics.
blarg: