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Offline SnoWeb

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Re: Turquoise Nymph | Aether Nymph https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=10275.msg267072#msg267072
« Reply #120 on: February 08, 2011, 04:36:44 pm »
How it works is every time a card is played there is a 1/1000 chance of it being recorded.  Honestly, when it comes to ultra rare cards though, the data is next to useless since 1)We dont know the spread of hat % of the community has them and 2)Many will use them JUST because they are rare.
Thanks a lot. I agree with what you said about ultra rare cards.
AI have a question, still. Does these data include when AI plays a card? What about the relic farms in T50?

Offline jmdt

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Re: Turquoise Nymph | Aether Nymph https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=10275.msg267073#msg267073
« Reply #121 on: February 08, 2011, 04:40:11 pm »
Well we could always give the aether nymph more attack.

Even then, the card or anubis needs a wholesale rework for both to be viable.

Offline 10 men

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Re: Turquoise Nymph | Aether Nymph https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=10275.msg267079#msg267079
« Reply #122 on: February 08, 2011, 04:53:48 pm »
Let's redeclare Parallel Universe to be Aether's Alchemy card.
Then make Turquise Nymph
9 :aether
creature - 5/2
4 :aether: PU
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Offline EvaRia

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Re: Turquoise Nymph | Aether Nymph https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=10275.msg268178#msg268178
« Reply #123 on: February 10, 2011, 04:20:24 pm »
Hmm, since I made my metagame balance thread, let's take a more in depth look at using it.

Anubis and Aether Nymph are a very useful comparison.

Let's compare parameters.

Anubis is balanced, and sees use. Aether nymph is not.

Anubis's parameters:

5 attack
8 HP
1 :aether immortalize

Aether nymph comparison.
8 attack (+3 cost)
2 HP (-1 or 2 Cost)
Mono ability (+1 cost)
Ability cost is 3 :aether (-2 or 3 Cost)
 Aether nymph is balanced cost-wise to anubis.

Ideas for metagame balance:

Aether nymph is unbalanced because of low cost and expensive effect, and fragility.

Cost --> 9 :aether
Ability cost --> 2 :aether
HP --> 4

This makes it slightly harder to play, but easier to use and a bit more hardy.

Cost --> 9 :Aether
Add ability immortality (+3)
Attack --> 6 (-2)

or

Add ability immortality (+3)
Attack --> 5 (-3)

This turns aether nymph immortal, and lowers stats considerably. This makes it more of a pure immortalizer rather than an alternate attacker as well.

Cost 8 :aether --> 9 :aether
Ability Cost --> 1 :aether (+3)
Attack --> 5 (-3)
HP --> 5 (+1)

This makes Aether nymph's ability much more useable, at the cost of sacrificing it's attack power.


Just some ideas, there are plenty more ways to balance it.

Re: Turquoise Nymph | Aether Nymph https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=10275.msg276283#msg276283
« Reply #124 on: February 22, 2011, 03:09:27 pm »
@ddevans96: You realize that creatures in elements have summoning sickness, right? It can use its ability only after being in play for the one turn necessary for literally any damage-dealing creature control except for thunderstorm to kill it, and if your opponent has any in his hand, that's precisely what he or she will do.

I think that immortality is the way to go here specifically because of Anubis. An existing card already has the same exact ability, which can't be said for literally any other nymph. I think a more fitting ability would be to generate a copy of a target card in your hand (mix between fractal and PU), but it's the only one I have and I would actually rather have it be immortal. It makes perfect sense, since aether has two creatures with the same passive applicable skill unlike any other creature of any other element (charger is the only gravity creature with momentum, no life creatures have adrenaline, etc.). The purple nymph also has only 2 defense (upgraded, 1 unupped), but its ability gives a much higher advantage since it's the absolutely most powerful damage-reducing creature control in the game, and 1/3 cheaper than the card.

It just makes a lot of sense to me, and I know I'd actually use it if I didn't have to quint it, since at that point it's worth making a little more room in my deck and just using actual quints.
I believe I'll target Dimensional Shield...
It would be an awesome lockdown ability, and Eternity, Nymph & Shield in Hand could very well be a lockdown with enough quants.

I like the idea of her coming into play as an immortal and then having a secondary ability (Mindgate, Quint, Fractal? (for a fair chunk o' quants)

Offline Higurashi

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Re: Turquoise Nymph | Aether Nymph https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=10275.msg276351#msg276351
« Reply #125 on: February 22, 2011, 04:49:29 pm »
Let's redeclare Parallel Universe to be Aether's Alchemy card.
Then make Turquise Nymph
9 :aether
creature - 5/2
4 :aether: PU
Genius. Hard to balance though, considering Quint. I wouldn't want Quint to go.
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Offline Sir Valimont

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Re: Turquoise Nymph | Aether Nymph https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=10275.msg276375#msg276375
« Reply #126 on: February 22, 2011, 05:27:21 pm »
Let's redeclare Parallel Universe to be Aether's Alchemy card.
Then make Turquise Nymph
9 :aether
creature - 5/2
4 :aether: PU
Genius. Hard to balance though, considering Quint. I wouldn't want Quint to go.
The problem is Deja Vu. It's a Time card that does not implicate Aether in any way ... in fact its only defining quality is replication. In many ways the Parallel Universe effect, as it stands, therefore, is really a shared spell between the elements.

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Re: Turquoise Nymph | Aether Nymph https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=10275.msg276431#msg276431
« Reply #127 on: February 22, 2011, 06:36:51 pm »
Let's redeclare Parallel Universe to be Aether's Alchemy card.
Then make Turquise Nymph
9 :aether
creature - 5/2
4 :aether: PU
Genius. Hard to balance though, considering Quint. I wouldn't want Quint to go.
The problem is Deja Vu. It's a Time card that does not implicate Aether in any way ... in fact its only defining quality is replication. In many ways the Parallel Universe effect, as it stands, therefore, is really a shared spell between the elements.
I like the idea, as long as it's balanced.
Deja Vu is inferior to Twin Universe in every way except quanta cost and card advantage though. Duplicating buffed Scarabs for example is much more useful than a buffed Deja Vu which will have no ability after splitting (although combined, they are at their best, Twin Universe buffed Dejas).

But most of all: Deja Vu is less like Twin Universe on a stick than Anubis is Quintessence on a stick.....

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Re: Turquoise Nymph | Aether Nymph https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=10275.msg276644#msg276644
« Reply #128 on: February 22, 2011, 11:37:59 pm »
I believe that  :aether has two major types of spells: quint and some sort of copying mechanism. (A third, minor one, is lobotomy... I won't include that into this discussion.)

If we compare:
CardQuint-typeCopy-type
Quintessence :aether
Fractal :aether
Parallel Universe :aether
Mindgate :aether
Phase Shield :aether
Copying stuff wins 3-2 over quintessence... I think the nymph's ability should be either PU or Mindgate...

Re: Turquoise Nymph | Aether Nymph https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=10275.msg276808#msg276808
« Reply #129 on: February 23, 2011, 03:11:32 am »
^^
can't be mindgate
nymph abilities can only be a spell ability
so... only quint, fractal, and PU

Offline ZephyrPhantom

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Re: Turquoise Nymph | Aether Nymph https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=10275.msg276870#msg276870
« Reply #130 on: February 23, 2011, 04:50:47 am »
Although most people seem to be on the "change dat ability" bandwagon, I thought I'd just throw this out for discussion's sake.
Let's look at the other buffs:
-Reduce the summoning cost - Erm no, quint on a stick is pretty strong in all cases. Even if stats lowered the cost would still remain pretty high.  It also goes out of theme with all the nymphs costing 8-9 quanta.
-Increase the health - Maybe if you made it 4 to survive Rof and maybe slow down plague, but I'm not sure how else this helps.
-Decrease the ability cost - While this would work (see Arctic Squid), it might overshadow Anubis a bit much if this is done.
-Come into play immortal - I like this because this strikes as a double-edged sword - it prevents most CC from being used, but it also prevents a combo with SoR.  Also it is fitting thematically, I think a nymph would have enough power to be immortal the moment it is played.
-Change the ability -  While it's definitley an interesting suggestion, I'm not exactly a big fan of it. Sure, it may be similar to Anubis, but it's mono, which can make a difference sometimes.
  • Quint - The current one.
  • Fractal - Out of the question. Too expensive.
  • Phase Shield - Not related to the Nymph at all. It's also pretty strong, possibly OP since you could pretty much be invicible from physical damage for an upkeep for 4 :aether.
  • Mindgate - This feels redundant since we already have a permanent that can do it. For those of you who point to :time 's 4 different methods of drawning, let me note that they are all useful in different situations. Precog is a quick draw, Sundial blocks damage, Hourglass is the generic drawer, and Nymph is a decent attacker that also gives the added benefit of viewing your opponent's hand.  On the other hand, the only difference between this proposed change and Mindgate is what cards they are vulnerable to.
  • TU - *points to Mitosis* I have a valid explanation for that one, especially since PU can carry over stat buffs as well as copy from the opponent's side unlike Mitosis. Please don't.
  • Copying a card to hand - See phase shield. Upkeep is increased, but by the time you get this combo rolling you should still have enough quanta (Initially copy your pillars to increase eventual quanta gain, then copy shields)
As for stats -
Creature Value = Attack + HP modifier  + Ability Value + Bonus
Unupped
Attack = + 7
HP = + 0 (1-5)
Ability Value= +3, but -1 for expensive ability cost. Final Value : +2
Bonus?: Aether generally gets -1 cost for creatures.
Final Value : 8
Upped adds +1 with the attack increase, but that is negated by the -1 for upgrading.   
Aether nymph is overpriced.

Usage Status:
Turquoise Nymph has been used about 6000 times.
Aether Nymph has been used about 2000 times (but then again Upgrading nymphs = bad to most people)
Combined this is 8000 times.
Anubis in both forms has been used about a total of 111000 times.
Quintessence has been used 376000 times.

So what does Anubis have that Nymph doesn't? High HP.
What does Quint have that Nymph doesn't? Speed.

If Nymph was given Immaterial, it would make it much more defendable, and since rares are supposed to be slightly more powerful than normal cards, it makes sense.
Alternatively, Nymph's Quintessence could be given the status "this can be used multiple times per turn",  bump the ability cost to 4-5 and lower the attack to 3. This would make it extremely fast when it hits the field, and better than Anubis. Got a problem with it doing that? Well, CC it the moment it comes out or play a damage shield. That's how Immortals die.
One more alternative would just be lower the attack and raise the HP. I'm not sure how well this would go, but then it'd be at least on par with Anubis.

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Re: Turquoise Nymph | Aether Nymph https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=10275.msg276876#msg276876
« Reply #131 on: February 23, 2011, 05:01:51 am »
The usage statistics are skewed when comparing Anubis to the Turquoise Nymph because the nymph is a rare. I think the card is actually balanced; let me explain. If you play silence the same turn you play the aether nymph, the aether nymph can not be hit by spell CC. With the lobotomizer you remove skills that could harm it. Since 1.26, the Turquoise nymph has a much easier time immortalizing itself. However, just because it is balanced doesn't mean it needs a change. It's rather unfair that the Turquoise nymph is the only nymph whose skill is shared by another creature. Either Anubis or the nymph should get a new skill. I say the nymph because Anubis is more common and would affect more people.
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