Post by: BluePriest on July 27, 2010, 10:24:44 pm
Anubis-Nymph
5/8 > 7/2
2 :aether > 3 :aether (Ability cost)
8 :time > 9 :aether (summon cost)
When comparing the upgraded versions,
Anubis-Nymph
5/8 > 8/2
1 :aether > 3 :aether (Ability cost)
8 :time > 9 :aether (summon cost)
Also, a quint costs 4 :aether upgraded only 3) By the time you get the quantum to play the nymphs ability once, you had the quantum to play the quint 3-4 TIMES. And with only 2-3 life, most damaging spells could kill it before it has a chance to protect itself. And you have to wait a turn before playing its ability where as you can play all 3 quints in one turn (and yes, I know, you have to get 3 cards to play the quints, where as you can play the nymphs ability as many times as you want, but this hardly makes it better as most of the time I need to wait til I get a quint and a nymph so im sure it doesnt die right away or is rewound so i need to get 9 more quantum before replaying it).
Also, you may say that it is mono aether, so you dont need to splash another element, phase spider is the only non-immortal card in :aether
Post by: tyranim on July 27, 2010, 10:35:06 pm
Post by: BluePriest on July 27, 2010, 10:49:54 pm
Post by: tyranim on July 27, 2010, 10:51:30 pm
Post by: ddevans96 on July 27, 2010, 11:29:54 pm
Post by: JJ 52 on July 28, 2010, 12:55:30 am
(http://elementscommunity.org/images/Cards/TurquoiseNymph.png)(http://elementscommunity.org/images/Cards/Upgrade.png)(http://elementscommunity.org/images/Cards/AetherNymph.png)According to the picture it gets an extra attack, not an extra defense.
Anubis-Nymph
5/8 > 7/2
2 :aether > 3 :aether (Ability cost)
8 :time > 9 :aether (summon cost)
When comparing the upgraded versions,
Anubis-Nymph
5/8 > 7/3 (wow, one extra def)
1 :aether > 3 :aether (Ability cost)
8 :time > 9 :aether (summon cost)
Also, a quint costs 4 :aether upgraded only 3) By the time you get the quantum to play the nymphs ability once, you had the quantum to play the quint 3-4 TIMES. And with only 2-3 life, most damaging spells could kill it before it has a chance to protect itself. And you have to wait a turn before playing its ability where as you can play all 3 quints in one turn (and yes, I know, you have to get 3 cards to play the quints, where as you can play the nymphs ability as many times as you want, but this hardly makes it better as most of the time I need to wait til I get a quint and a nymph so im sure it doesnt die right away or is rewound so i need to get 9 more quantum before replaying it).
Also, you may say that it is mono aether, so you dont need to splash another element, phase spider is the only non-immortal card in :aether
Post by: BluePriest on July 28, 2010, 01:07:39 am
Post by: JJ 52 on July 28, 2010, 01:25:51 am
ooops, my mistake, one extra attack isnt anything to brag about eitherI would actually rather have it have more hp :P but i like the idea of it coming into play immortal better.
Post by: finkel on July 28, 2010, 01:45:53 am
I think that immortality is the way to go here specifically because of Anubis. An existing card already has the same exact ability, which can't be said for literally any other nymph. I think a more fitting ability would be to generate a copy of a target card in your hand (mix between fractal and PU), but it's the only one I have and I would actually rather have it be immortal. It makes perfect sense, since aether has two creatures with the same passive applicable skill unlike any other creature of any other element (charger is the only gravity creature with momentum, no life creatures have adrenaline, etc.). The purple nymph also has only 2 defense (upgraded, 1 unupped), but its ability gives a much higher advantage since it's the absolutely most powerful damage-reducing creature control in the game, and 1/3 cheaper than the card.
It just makes a lot of sense to me, and I know I'd actually use it if I didn't have to quint it, since at that point it's worth making a little more room in my deck and just using actual quints.
Post by: ddevans96 on July 28, 2010, 01:50:49 am
@ddevans96: You realize that creatures in elements have summoning sickness, right? It can use its ability only after being in play for the one turn necessary for literally any damage-dealing creature control except for thunderstorm to kill it, and if your opponent has any in his hand, that's precisely what he or she will do.I see your point, but I really hate the idea of one nymph being immaterial and all the others not being that.
I think that immortality is the way to go here specifically because of Anubis. An existing card already has the same exact ability, which can't be said for literally any other nymph. I think a more fitting ability would be to generate a copy of a target card in your hand (mix between fractal and PU), but it's the only one I have and I would actually rather have it be immortal. It makes perfect sense, since aether has two creatures with the same passive applicable skill unlike any other creature of any other element (charger is the only gravity creature with momentum, no life creatures have adrenaline, etc.). The purple nymph also has only 2 defense (upgraded, 1 unupped), but its ability gives a much higher advantage since it's the absolutely most powerful damage-reducing creature control in the game, and 1/3 cheaper than the card.
It just makes a lot of sense to me, and I know I'd actually use it if I didn't have to quint it, since at that point it's worth making a little more room in my deck and just using actual quints.
And Titan also has momentum, but it's not a creature unless you fly it, so I guess that doesn't count.
Post by: BluePriest on July 28, 2010, 02:09:04 am
Morning glory the only weapon that is indestructible. Why shouldnt there be a nymph that is indestructible, like all the rest
I see your point, but I really hate the idea of one nymph being immaterial and all the others not being that.
And Titan also has momentum, but it's not a creature unless you fly it, so I guess that doesn't count.
Post by: ddevans96 on July 28, 2010, 02:10:18 am
Because it would unbalance the entire concept of nymphs.Morning glory the only weapon that is indestructible. Why shouldnt there be a nymph that is indestructible, like all the rest
I see your point, but I really hate the idea of one nymph being immaterial and all the others not being that.
And Titan also has momentum, but it's not a creature unless you fly it, so I guess that doesn't count.
Post by: BluePriest on July 28, 2010, 03:06:04 am
Light nymph is strong attack and defense. Aether Nymph Is moderate attack, and horrible defense. :light 1 :aether 0
Light Nymph requires nothing for its ability, Aether nymph requires 3 :light 2 :aether 0
The card that has light Nymphs ability has the same cost. Same with the Aether Nymph :light 2 :aether 0
Light Nymphs ability synergizes PERFECTLY with its element, and the cards in it. Aether Nymph has no synergy with its cards, and only 1 card in all of aether is benifited from it. :light 3 :aether 0
Light Nymph is the ONLY creature that can use its ability. Aether nymph has competition, and that competition can use it more efficiently, and is better than Aether nyph in virtually every way. :light 4 :aether 0
Idk, personally, that doesn't seem balanced to me.
Post by: ddevans96 on July 28, 2010, 03:18:58 am
Post by: dragonhuman on July 28, 2010, 05:27:00 am
well aether nymph doesn't need to be buffed, what if you just nerfed anubis? less health less attack for it hmm?
Post by: BluePriest on July 28, 2010, 12:04:20 pm
Post by: tyranim on July 28, 2010, 08:56:31 pm
Post by: macgawel on July 28, 2010, 10:00:50 pm
Even if anubis was only a 3/2 creatures, I would still rather use him than Aether nymph. Not only does his ability only cost 1 :aether .but since he is a :time creature, then you only require 3 :aether to get a quinted anubis out onto the field, where as for the turquoise nymph you need 12 :aether to get it out onto the field quintedYes, but to use Anubis, you need to use two types of quanta.
Nymphes can be used in mono decks...
Post by: tyranim on July 28, 2010, 10:03:02 pm
Post by: BluePriest on July 28, 2010, 10:42:08 pm
theres only one creature that can be quinted into survival in a mono aether deck, other than the nymph itselfwhich is exactly why I disregard this "advantage" the nymph has over anubis.
Post by: cookiepirate on August 02, 2010, 08:26:22 pm
i think this is the worst :aether card
i voted for less summoning cost
yes most of the :aether cards have a fairly high cost, but i think 9 quant is TOO high
i think maybe 8 or 7 will do
Post by: icecoldbro on August 05, 2010, 07:37:14 am
needs to come in inmortal
Post by: miggui on September 19, 2010, 10:28:22 pm
9 :aether to summon 1/2 4 :aether twin universe (basic)
9 :aether to summon 1/4 4 :aether twin universe (upgraded)
the high cost, low stats and non-immunity to offensive shields, in my opinion, more than make for the eternal, lower cost of the strongest spell in her quantum - twin universe (remember, that's exactly what all other nymphs - except light - do).
Post by: Ssomeonee on September 23, 2010, 02:02:48 pm
Decreasing the ability cost is fine.
Post by: willng3 on September 23, 2010, 02:20:10 pm
Post by: Daytripper on September 23, 2010, 03:22:02 pm
dark/death:
No high stats, but can kill off enemy creatures 1 by 1
earth: Petrifies over and over, not deadly but good. No high stats
purple: antimatter, can ruin your whole creature field! No high stats
fire: :Likewise, can kill all creatures with offensive rage. No high stats
gravity: Black hole in a bottle, can kill your entire game. No high stats
Air nymph: can do some decent damage in a few turns with gas. Attack is decent.
Light: Supporting ability for hope + high stats!
Time: High stats and a decent ability.
Water: Terrible nymph, the arctic squid is a better nymph than that thing. Already replied there.
Then comes aether. It miserably fails because the ability is so common. Nymphs ARE expensive, you don't get around that. If they get competition they lose easily. But what they offer should be good and fun. Immortality is lame, I say, resurrect the dead for aether nymph!
Post by: Fallower on September 24, 2010, 06:35:04 am
Give it something cool like a fractal or PU ability. :P
Post by: Daytripper on September 24, 2010, 09:56:30 am
Post by: Fallower on September 24, 2010, 12:54:22 pm
But oh well, these are all overpowered ideas.
Post by: Daytripper on September 24, 2010, 01:42:46 pm
Post by: lava golem on September 24, 2010, 02:38:36 pm
summoning cost: 7 :aether
Attack: 6
Defense: 3
Skill: 2 :aether
how does that look
Post by: miggui on September 24, 2010, 08:09:02 pm
Post by: Ryli on September 24, 2010, 09:30:30 pm
What we also have to remember is the 8hp of anubis, meaning it can deal with most CC for a turn.
Post by: EvaRia on September 24, 2010, 09:34:24 pm
Not that serious an idea but putting it out there.
Post by: Ryli on September 24, 2010, 09:36:34 pm
Aether nymph should ressurect the dead? xDxDxDFractal is in the 'nerf this card' section for a reason! Don't give to creatures like you'd give a child pencils and a peice of paper.
Give it something cool like a fractal or PU ability. :P
Parallel Universe is fine alone, but a reccuring dejavu for the nymph is just wrong.
Turn 1 - 1 nymph
2 - 2 nymphs
3 - 4 nymphs
You see where this goes? and with 7/8 attack that is no laughing matter.
Post by: Fallower on September 25, 2010, 01:13:10 am
Resurrecting is not that bad, you could even limit it to one unit at the time, and give them 2 or 3 turns to ''wake up'' again...Elements doesn't even have a graveyard for dead creatures yet, so that won't work as of now.
Quote
Fractal is in the 'nerf this card' section for a reason! Don't give to creatures like you'd give a child pencils and a peice of paper.I was thinking about a weaker version of fractal, like giving you one card only. xD
Parallel Universe is fine alone, but a reccuring dejavu for the nymph is just wrong.
Turn 1 - 1 nymph
2 - 2 nymphs
3 - 4 nymphs
You see where this goes? and with 7/8 attack that is no laughing matter.
And the PU will have to be almost as expensive as the real card. o.0 And maybe with some kind of life depletion so you can't do it infinitely. But I already gave up on these ideas anyway. :P
Post by: miggui on September 25, 2010, 02:50:44 am
"my" PU nymph doesn't have 7/8 attack, it has 1 (and the same 2 lifes). therefore PUing it would only let you PU more than once per turn, but wouldn't give you an edge at attacking unless you had a very strong non- :aether card in play. so you must have a LOT of :aether quanta (since you need 4 per turn per nymph), you have to protect your nymph since it's very fragile (and if you quint, you can't PU itself), and you must have another quantum in your deck for you to actually use the nymph. with so many drawbacks, I don't think it's overpowered.Aether nymph should ressurect the dead? xDxDxDFractal is in the 'nerf this card' section for a reason! Don't give to creatures like you'd give a child pencils and a peice of paper.
Give it something cool like a fractal or PU ability. :P
Parallel Universe is fine alone, but a reccuring dejavu for the nymph is just wrong.
Turn 1 - 1 nymph
2 - 2 nymphs
3 - 4 nymphs
You see where this goes? and with 7/8 attack that is no laughing matter.
Post by: Fallower on September 25, 2010, 06:05:57 am
Post by: miggui on September 25, 2010, 03:13:25 pm
Nah, PU is actually super strong if it could be used multiple times, especially since it depends on the creatures in the field. You could essentially have 10 creatures with over 20 attack just for 40 :aether. The standalone card itself isn't so strong, but the ability to give multiples of each creature gives you ridiculous field advantage. And that is why "my" nymph dies eventually after creating a few copies. ;)well, you COULD create a hell of an army with something as simple as aflatoxin + fallen druid. and the druid costs 5 :entropy to play and 1 :life to mutate and has a stable 3/3 stats. there's the random factor, but IMO it's as overpowered as having a 9 :aether 1/2 card with a 4 :aether PU ability. you need to:
a) spend 9 :aether to play it
b) spend probably something around 10 non- :aether quanta to play a really strong card
c) spend 4 :aether per turn to duplicate it (or the nymph)
d) hope your opponent doesn't have an offensive shield, oty/scarabs, antimatter, aflatoxin/parasite, owls eye, shockwave, lightning, lobotomize or even quint.
maybe it should have 1/1 stats and 1/2 when upgraded, like the nymph queen, but I still don't think it's impossible to have a PU nymph (we have an antimatter nymph, don't we?)
Post by: Fallower on September 25, 2010, 04:01:04 pm
Post by: miggui on September 26, 2010, 01:02:39 am
Mmm alfatoxin costs 6 :death, fallen druid 5 :entropy, ability costs 1 :life, and theres no guarrantee that you'd get a high attack creature, an especially low chance too. 3 elements, with alfatoxin taking a long time to set up.the nymph would cost 9 :aether, the ability would cost 4 :aether and you'd need a very expensive card from another 'color'. it's one less color and no random, but a lot more quanta...
Post by: Fallower on September 26, 2010, 03:51:09 am
Post by: miggui on September 26, 2010, 05:22:20 am
Post by: Fallower on September 26, 2010, 07:24:07 am
Post by: miggui on September 26, 2010, 11:43:41 am
Post by: Fallower on September 26, 2010, 11:59:25 am
Post by: Ryli on September 26, 2010, 12:01:50 pm
:P Sure is with quint also an :aether card.What he said. Throw them down together and it's impossible to kill without specific shields.
I also like the current ability as you can use it on opponents creatures (especially useful when I've faced voodoo decks. What use is it if they can't use pandemonium, gravity pull, basilisk blood, etc on it)
Post by: Szklarzified on October 04, 2010, 09:07:40 pm
Post by: Kurohami on October 04, 2010, 09:12:39 pm
Post by: Krahhl on October 04, 2010, 09:24:36 pm
I think making it come into play immortal is a good idea, but it's attack would have to be lowered. 8 attack for 9 :aether and the ability to immortalize creatures is rather OP compared to 10 attack for 14 :aether and no ability other than immaterial. Keep it's health at 2 so it'll still die against fire buckler/spine carapace.
Post by: Fallower on October 05, 2010, 01:42:15 am
Post by: Krahhl on October 05, 2010, 01:54:41 am
Post by: Ryli on October 06, 2010, 11:30:51 am
Post by: SnoWeb on October 06, 2010, 11:57:14 am
I agree.
Immortal, the nymph would still be highly vulnerable to fire buckler/torn carapace. However, she would become (in some extend) better than the common card Annubis, what a nymph should be ...
Post by: EmeraldTiger on October 10, 2010, 09:07:24 pm
maybe if created by :water nymph or nymph's tears no immaterial.
Post by: Sir Valimont on October 10, 2010, 10:40:56 pm
1) Make Turquoise Nymph come into play immortal. The problem with this is that its attack power is then too high -- it basically makes Phase Dragon useless. I would suggest reducing its attack power to about 5, +immortality.
2) Change Turquoise Nymph's stats. As it is, the nymph is one of the few targetable Aether creatures, and its health is so low that it is too easy to kill while vulnerable. The most logical change, in my opinion, would be to actually keep the low health and reduce the nymph's cost -- but of course that would mess with the nymph theme, as they always cost 8 or 9 quanta across all the elements. So instead perhaps the best solution is a change in stats to 6 | 4 and 7 | 4.
Post by: ddevans96 on October 10, 2010, 11:26:12 pm
Post by: miggui on October 11, 2010, 02:00:39 am
of course the current ability is nice, no one said it's useless. the point is, nymphs are supposed to have unique, game-changing abilities, and aether nymph has an ability another card has, with thrice the cost and a quarter of its life.:P Sure is with quint also an :aether card.What he said. Throw them down together and it's impossible to kill without specific shields.
I also like the current ability as you can use it on opponents creatures (especially useful when I've faced voodoo decks. What use is it if they can't use pandemonium, gravity pull, basilisk blood, etc on it)
Post by: Ryli on October 11, 2010, 12:43:37 pm
It can be game changing with this strategy.of course the current ability is nice, no one said it's useless. the point is, nymphs are supposed to have unique, game-changing abilities, and aether nymph has an ability another card has, with thrice the cost and a quarter of its life.:P Sure is with quint also an :aether card.What he said. Throw them down together and it's impossible to kill without specific shields.
I also like the current ability as you can use it on opponents creatures (especially useful when I've faced voodoo decks. What use is it if they can't use pandemonium, gravity pull, basilisk blood, etc on it)
You play nymph which can't be killed --> every card you creature can't be killed --> you beat that guy whose deck relies on kill and stall tactics to win.
No antimatter, no aflatoxin, no bolt cards, no firestorm, no reverse time, no freeze/delay, no otyugh, etc
How many decks rely on one or a combination of these to win? Most rainbow stalls do. Water stalls, Fire stalls, Entropy stalls, Death stalls. Ther's too many to name.
And what's unique about it? It's not off element like anubis.
Post by: SnoWeb on October 11, 2010, 04:24:02 pm
You play nymph which can't be killed --> every card you creature can't be killed --> you beat that guy whose deck relies on kill and stall tactics to win.It works this way also with phase dragon and quintessence!
No antimatter, no aflatoxin, no bolt cards, no firestorm, no reverse time, no freeze/delay, no otyugh, etc
How many decks rely on one or a combination of these to win? Most rainbow stalls do. Water stalls, Fire stalls, Entropy stalls, Death stalls. Ther's too many to name.
Post by: Krahhl on October 11, 2010, 07:18:01 pm
It can be game changing with this strategy.The thing is, with such a high cost, any water stall, fire stall, entropy stall, and death stall wouldn't really function because of the amount of aether they would have to add in. In a rainbow, getting so much quanta will still be an issue, but then you might as well take an anubis instead.
You play nymph which can't be killed --> every card you creature can't be killed --> you beat that guy whose deck relies on kill and stall tactics to win.
No antimatter, no aflatoxin, no bolt cards, no firestorm, no reverse time, no freeze/delay, no otyugh, etc
How many decks rely on one or a combination of these to win? Most rainbow stalls do. Water stalls, Fire stalls, Entropy stalls, Death stalls. Ther's too many to name.
And what's unique about it? It's not off element like anubis.
Yes, the nymph as the advantage of being a mono card, but what use is that when aether only has 2 non-immaterial creatures? If you immortalize a phase recluse, you're spending a total of 7 :aether for 7 attack. That's better than an elite immortal's 5 attack for the same cost, but the spider requires itself and the nymph. And there's no guarantee the nymph will survive its first turn to immortalize itself, so that's probably another quintessence needed for a three-card combo. I'd rather just play the immortal as a single card knowing that it's automatically immortal.
Post by: Dan43 on October 11, 2010, 11:07:45 pm
Post by: Krahhl on October 12, 2010, 02:29:05 am
Post by: EvaRia on October 12, 2010, 02:31:03 am
I mean, quint itself is only 3 quanta, so I think it should only cost like 2 quanta.
Coming into play immortal is unnecessary, although it could use a little bit of an HP buff.
Post by: miggui on October 15, 2010, 01:49:40 pm
and what's the use about not being off-element? no :aether can be quinted besides the nymph! she is expensive to play, expensive to use the ability and needs to be quinted in the same turn as she is played because her chances to die are huge! so only to play her you need 13 :aether, 12 at best. that's a lot of quanta for a card that can't benefit monoquanta decks at all.It can be game changing with this strategy.of course the current ability is nice, no one said it's useless. the point is, nymphs are supposed to have unique, game-changing abilities, and aether nymph has an ability another card has, with thrice the cost and a quarter of its life.:P Sure is with quint also an :aether card.What he said. Throw them down together and it's impossible to kill without specific shields.
I also like the current ability as you can use it on opponents creatures (especially useful when I've faced voodoo decks. What use is it if they can't use pandemonium, gravity pull, basilisk blood, etc on it)
You play nymph which can't be killed --> every card you creature can't be killed --> you beat that guy whose deck relies on kill and stall tactics to win.
No antimatter, no aflatoxin, no bolt cards, no firestorm, no reverse time, no freeze/delay, no otyugh, etc
How many decks rely on one or a combination of these to win? Most rainbow stalls do. Water stalls, Fire stalls, Entropy stalls, Death stalls. Ther's too many to name.
And what's unique about it? It's not off element like anubis.
Post by: 7wavemaster on October 17, 2010, 12:47:46 am
Post by: Krahhl on October 17, 2010, 06:57:32 pm
This might be considered OP but how about changes its ability to PU(8 :aether) and TU(7 :aether0.
I don't think the ability should be changed. Every nymph's ability is the same as the "ultimate spell" card of its element. It's just how nymphs are, and immortality isn't a bad skill for aether, however limited its usefulness may be in a mono deck.Besides, your suggestion would cost too much aether. No one is going to have that much quanta; they'd just use the actual spell instead.
Post by: Ryli on October 17, 2010, 08:06:52 pm
Post by: Xrbeta on October 22, 2010, 08:31:20 pm
Post by: miggui on October 22, 2010, 10:01:40 pm
the 'ultimate spell' of aether isn't quint, it's PU. or maybe fractal. but definitely not quint. with that in mind, I'd use your argument to pump my idea of a 1/1 (1/2 upped) 4 :aether PU nymph :)This might be considered OP but how about changes its ability to PU(8 :aether) and TU(7 :aether0.I don't think the ability should be changed. Every nymph's ability is the same as the "ultimate spell" card of its element. It's just how nymphs are, and immortality isn't a bad skill for aether, however limited its usefulness may be in a mono deck.Besides, your suggestion would cost too much aether. No one is going to have that much quanta; they'd just use the actual spell instead.
Post by: miggui on October 22, 2010, 10:05:20 pm
Nobody is thinking out of the box. I've lost count of how many times I've saved my ass by using my eternity on a mutant nymph against the FGs with my timebow.your point being that the creature is so useless you like to 'give' copies of it to your opponent? that's not the purpose of a nymph, is it? =P
Post by: QuantumT on October 22, 2010, 10:16:19 pm
and what's the use about not being off-element? no :aether can be quinted besides the nymph! she is expensive to play, expensive to use the ability and needs to be quinted in the same turn as she is played because her chances to die are huge! so only to play her you need 13 :aether, 12 at best. that's a lot of quanta for a card that can't benefit monoquanta decks at all.With the nymph being on-element, it means that if you want to quint creatures from a different element (besides time), you only need 2 elements. Unless the second element is time, using anubis will require 3 elements.
Post by: Krahhl on October 23, 2010, 02:12:50 am
the 'ultimate spell' of aether isn't quint, it's PU. or maybe fractal. but definitely not quint. with that in mind, I'd use your argument to pump my idea of a 1/1 (1/2 upped) 4 :aether PU nymph :)"Ultimate spell" doesn't mean the spell that's the most useful or powerful, but the spell that has some sort of vial/bottle thing in the picture. Antimatter, Aflatoxin, Black Hole, Basilisk Blood, Epinephrine, Rage Elixir, Nymph's Tears, Luciferase, Unstable Gas, Precognition, Liquid Shadow, and Quintessence.
With the nymph being on-element, it means that if you want to quint creatures from a different element (besides time), you only need 2 elements. Unless the second element is time, using anubis will require 3 elements.Sure, but you would need a lot of aether towers to power that nymph, as well as the nymph itself. It's much easier to use quintessence.
Post by: Ryli on October 23, 2010, 11:10:42 am
What do you mean by give copies.Nobody is thinking out of the box. I've lost count of how many times I've saved my ass by using my eternity on a mutant nymph against the FGs with my timebow.your point being that the creature is so useless you like to 'give' copies of it to your opponent? that's not the purpose of a nymph, is it? =P
If you mutate your skeleton into, say, a aether nymph with heal. You use eternity on it and you play it. If it came auto-immaterial then it can't be killed off easily and can protect all mutants played after. Very useful against control heavy or TU Spam Gods, who will pick a badass mutant (especially a momentumed one, and tear you apart with an OTK). Even with the current no auto immaterial it's pretty powerful.
The same works with all nymphs in mutation based rainbows, just with their ability instead.
Post by: glowing ice on October 23, 2010, 04:29:10 pm
Post by: QuantumT on October 23, 2010, 08:08:46 pm
Post by: Krahhl on October 23, 2010, 08:40:36 pm
Post by: QuantumT on October 23, 2010, 09:58:14 pm
Yeah the stats would definitely be lowered. I think 3-4|2 would be good, so it's less than an immortal, but not so low that its ability is its only use, since the quanta cost is still significant.A lot of the nymphs with good abilities have ability as their only use.
Post by: Krahhl on October 23, 2010, 10:11:11 pm
Post by: miggui on October 26, 2010, 01:13:15 am
I'd rather use anubis and :time mark than the nymph and :aether or the other quanta's mark. it's cheaper, more reliable and, well, I don't need to wait and pull a nymph on the oracle to use it.and what's the use about not being off-element? no :aether can be quinted besides the nymph! she is expensive to play, expensive to use the ability and needs to be quinted in the same turn as she is played because her chances to die are huge! so only to play her you need 13 :aether, 12 at best. that's a lot of quanta for a card that can't benefit monoquanta decks at all.With the nymph being on-element, it means that if you want to quint creatures from a different element (besides time), you only need 2 elements. Unless the second element is time, using anubis will require 3 elements.
Post by: miggui on October 26, 2010, 01:14:58 am
we demand PU-in-a-bottle NOW! :Dthe 'ultimate spell' of aether isn't quint, it's PU. or maybe fractal. but definitely not quint. with that in mind, I'd use your argument to pump my idea of a 1/1 (1/2 upped) 4 :aether PU nymph :)"Ultimate spell" doesn't mean the spell that's the most useful or powerful, but the spell that has some sort of vial/bottle thing in the picture. Antimatter, Aflatoxin, Black Hole, Basilisk Blood, Epinephrine, Rage Elixir, Nymph's Tears, Luciferase, Unstable Gas, Precognition, Liquid Shadow, and Quintessence.
Post by: miggui on October 26, 2010, 01:18:40 am
well, if you mutate your skeleton into anything, it'll necessarily turn into something more useful than it was... that doesn't mean the card's good.What do you mean by give copies.Nobody is thinking out of the box. I've lost count of how many times I've saved my ass by using my eternity on a mutant nymph against the FGs with my timebow.your point being that the creature is so useless you like to 'give' copies of it to your opponent? that's not the purpose of a nymph, is it? =P
If you mutate your skeleton into, say, a aether nymph with heal. You use eternity on it and you play it. If it came auto-immaterial then it can't be killed off easily and can protect all mutants played after. Very useful against control heavy or TU Spam Gods, who will pick a badass mutant (especially a momentumed one, and tear you apart with an OTK). Even with the current no auto immaterial it's pretty powerful.
The same works with all nymphs in mutation based rainbows, just with their ability instead.
Post by: miggui on October 26, 2010, 01:21:15 am
If it's going to come into play immortal, I think the stats need to be nerfed down to something like 2-3/1. Coming into play immortal with a strong ability to boot would be just too much otherwise.considering that the main issue on the nymph in my opinion is that its ability doesn't pay itself for the cost, why would one think that an immortal 3/1 3 :aether immortality would be good enough? if it was immortal 1/1 1 :aether it'd be good enough for me, otherwise I'd still pick anubis/quint over her...
Post by: QuantumT on October 26, 2010, 01:36:51 am
considering that the main issue on the nymph in my opinion is that its ability doesn't pay itself for the cost, why would one think that an immortal 3/1 3 :aether immortality would be good enough? if it was immortal 1/1 1 :aether it'd be good enough for me, otherwise I'd still pick anubis/quint over her...Coming into play immortal would be HUGE. At this point, the only things that come into play immortal have lackluster stats for how much they cost, and have no abilities at all. This would be coming into play immortal with the ability to give that to other creatures.
Part of the reason Anubis doesn't see a ton of play even though it's 'so good,' is because by the time I save up the quanta to play it, my opponent will have a myriad of options on how to get rid of it, or I'll just be dead. Coming into play immortal would at least alleviate the former of these, and making your own creatures immortal against a rush generally isn't all that helpful anyway.
Post by: Szklarzified on November 21, 2010, 11:56:25 am
And i still think it is underpowered.
Should come into play immortal or :aether :aether for it's skill.
Post by: Rainmaker on December 06, 2010, 12:32:40 am
Please, take into consideration that nymphs are supposed to be delicated creatures (low hp); yet their abilitys are supposed to be the best availables within an elements
Take a look at the toher nymphs and you will see that pretty much all are balanced:
Cost for playing: 8~9 quanta
cost of ability: 3~4 quanta
Health: below 5~2
attack: low
Post by: miggui on December 12, 2010, 05:31:18 am
For the fact, Entropy nymbh cost 9 entropy, and its ability 4.there's no comparison between antimatter and immortality. and half the nymphs have 4 or more lifepoints, they're not necessarily fragile.
Please, take into consideration that nymphs are supposed to be delicated creatures (low hp); yet their abilitys are supposed to be the best availables within an elements
Take a look at the toher nymphs and you will see that pretty much all are balanced:
Cost for playing: 8~9 quanta
cost of ability: 3~4 quanta
Health: below 5~2
attack: low
Post by: BluePriest on December 12, 2010, 09:01:04 pm
For the fact, Entropy nymbh cost 9 entropy, and its ability 4.Im really tired of people saying nymphs are meant to be fragile or have a high cost ability...
Please, take into consideration that nymphs are supposed to be delicated creatures (low hp); yet their abilitys are supposed to be the best availables within an elements
Take a look at the toher nymphs and you will see that pretty much all are balanced:
Cost for playing: 8~9 quanta
cost of ability: 3~4 quanta
Health: below 5~2
attack: low
(http://elementscommunity.org/images/Cards/GoldenNymphUpgraded.png)(http://elementscommunity.org/images/Cards/LightNymph.png)
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on December 13, 2010, 12:32:53 am
the cost for the ability should only cost 1 aether quanta, or even free
Post by: BluePriest on December 13, 2010, 12:47:54 am
this is probably the weakest nymph over all...definitly not free. i think the main problem is its health. The cost should be reduced by 1 and then it should have 4-5 health. Or keep its health and come in immortal.
the cost for the ability should only cost 1 aether quanta, or even free
Post by: Krahhl on December 13, 2010, 12:56:23 am
Post by: BluePriest on December 13, 2010, 03:19:14 am
I still think the best solution would be to make its attack around 3-5ish, stay at 2 health, and come into play immortal. Might need some cost balancing with nymph tears though.If its atk was lower with coming in immortal, I think it would be perfect.
Post by: Camoninja on December 29, 2010, 12:39:44 am
This might be too good for spark fractals. But if it weren't, it would make up for being inferior to the anubis.
Post by: johannhowitzer on December 29, 2010, 12:45:52 am
Turquoise Nymph is really a mono-Anubis, keep that in mind. It has better attack, same summoning cost, ability works in mono decks. Only real downside is the health, which given the easy Quintessence combo, should only be a problem when facing harmful shields.
I think it's fine the way it is. In fact, I wish I had one, I'd put it to good use. Yes, by the time you can play this you'd have been able to play 2-3 Quints, but you have to DRAW 2-3 Quints before you can play them. Once one of these is on the field, you can just keep on using it. Otherwise, what would be the point of people using Anubis to begin with?
Post by: EvaRia on December 29, 2010, 12:58:23 am
Considering :aether also has Quintessence, the nymph entering the field immortal is unnecessary.You've missed a lot of the earlier arguments.
Turquoise Nymph is really a mono-Anubis, keep that in mind. It has better attack, same summoning cost, ability works in mono decks. Only real downside is the health, which given the easy Quintessence combo, should only be a problem when facing harmful shields.
I think it's fine the way it is. In fact, I wish I had one, I'd put it to good use. Yes, by the time you can play this you'd have been able to play 2-3 Quints, but you have to DRAW 2-3 Quints before you can play them. Once one of these is on the field, you can just keep on using it. Otherwise, what would be the point of people using Anubis to begin with?
People have argued that yes, you can put it in a mono deck. But Aether only has 1 creature other than the nymph that CAN be quinted, and that is phase spider.
There's just about no point in quinting phase spider either. The other creatures are either already coming into play immortal, or die immediately.
I think the problem could be solved just by giving aether more creatures. that way, it will see more use.
Post by: johannhowitzer on December 29, 2010, 01:35:11 am
Post by: EvaRia on December 29, 2010, 01:39:20 am
That's why I'm saying, it's not that the card itself is bad, it's just that it fits a very unique niche and could be increasingly more useful as the card pool increases.
Also,
Considering :aether also has Quintessence, the nymph entering the field immortal is unnecessary.
Turquoise Nymph is really a mono-Anubis, keep that in mind. It has better attack, same summoning cost, ability works in mono decks. Only real downside is the health, which given the easy Quintessence combo, should only be a problem when facing harmful shields.
I think it's fine the way it is. In fact, I wish I had one, I'd put it to good use. Yes, by the time you can play this you'd have been able to play 2-3 Quints, but you have to DRAW 2-3 Quints before you can play them. Once one of these is on the field, you can just keep on using it. Otherwise, what would be the point of people using Anubis to begin with?
Post by: johannhowitzer on December 29, 2010, 01:41:57 am
Turquoise Nymph's "niche" is only as small as Quintessence's. They serve the same purpose and require exactly the same type(s) of quanta. Nymph goes in a deck where you think you might want more than a couple Quints.
Post by: EvaRia on December 29, 2010, 03:05:21 am
Woops. Well, I knew what I meant in my head. If you, reading from somewhere else in the internet, cannot tell what is in my head, then... poo on you!It's a little slimmer than Quints, for a similar reason as Poseidon vs. EQ.
Turquoise Nymph's "niche" is only as small as Quintessence's. They serve the same purpose and require exactly the same type(s) of quanta. Nymph goes in a deck where you think you might want more than a couple Quints.
Nymphs require a large amount of quanta, as such, you need to generate a fairly large amount of quanta in order to fuel it, compared to quints. Also, most people have at most 1 or 2, and if your strategy requires you to quint a creature no matter what, it's safer to go with a large amount of quints rather than 1 or 2 nymphs.
This means that the nymph's current use is like Poseidon: Great to have just in case you might need it in like a rainbow deck, because it's better to have one than not, but hard to build a strategy around it specifically.
Post by: The D0m1nat0r on December 30, 2010, 08:04:27 pm
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on December 30, 2010, 08:08:35 pm
Would it be overpowered if it had lightning as its ability? Maybe a 2/4 with lightning for 3 Aether would be good (as it is similar to the red nymph-creature control)? Only problems here are the non-alchemy aspect and the fact that it can target players (although this might not be such a bad idea).The nymphs should stay in-theme, and therefore quinting is best. I think both Upped and unupped should receive a lower ability cost of -1 :aether.
Post by: The D0m1nat0r on December 30, 2010, 08:13:47 pm
I agree with the lower ability cost-it would be able to 'compete' better with anubis.
Post by: Ekki on February 07, 2011, 03:50:09 pm
Turquoise nymph is clearly overshadowed by anubis, thus it needs something to be different, because all the cards should be equal a.k.a. in balance, no matter rarity. Or maybe anubis needs an effect change.
I still believe that the nymph needs to come into play immortal (and a little nerf in attack, or Phase Dragon... you know).
Post by: SnoWeb on February 07, 2011, 04:13:00 pm
I personally would change it's ability to something you can not have with a common card. None of the other nymphs have a normal card that has the same ability (rage, nymph tears, black hole, BB, precog, adrenaline, luciferin, antimatter, aflatoxin, UG and liquid shadow). As it is, Anubis is better so what is the interest of having a turquoise nymph? I'm sure we can have a balanced turquoise nymph that is an interesting card on its own.
I know (because he said it during his interview with vrt - here (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,20705.msg280987#msg280987)) that Zanzarino does not pay attention to the polls. I just hope he'll here (our) my call: please Zanz, do something with the turquoise nymph that is different from "a less good but more rare than Anubis" card ...
Post by: BluePriest on February 07, 2011, 04:45:45 pm
Post by: johannhowitzer on February 07, 2011, 05:01:50 pm
Code: [Select]
5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5ib 5ib 5ib 5id 5id 5if 5if 5if 5if 5ig 5ig 5ig 61o 61o 61o 61o 621 621
Post by: Krahhl on February 07, 2011, 08:16:09 pm
But I think it'd be more efficient to just take out the nymph's tears and a few water pillars, replacing them with more quints. That way you can simply play a creature and quint it, rather than wait for a nymph, then quint it, then use it to quint other creatures.
Post by: SnoWeb on February 08, 2011, 07:24:57 am
Post by: xdude on February 08, 2011, 07:39:02 am
I personally would change it's ability to something you can not have with a common card. None of the other nymphs have a normal card that has the same ability (rage, nymph tears, black hole, BB, precog, adrenaline, luciferin, antimatter, aflatoxin, UG and liquid shadow). As it is, Anubis is better so what is the interest of having a turquoise nymph? I'm sure we can have a balanced turquoise nymph that is an interesting card on its own.Ability won't change. All Nymphs have the same skill as their alchemy card. I think the change must come in stats, and perhaps to Anubis' skill.
Post by: SnoWeb on February 08, 2011, 07:48:19 am
Ability won't change. All Nymphs have the same skill as their alchemy card. I think the change must come in stats, and perhaps to Anubis' skill.Is there just one alchemy card? Aren't TU, Fractal, Silence and thunderbolt also alchemy cards? Anyway, I don't really think that these would be too good abilities for a nymph. If "the change must come in stats, and perhaps to Anubis' skill", then I would go for a change in Anubis skill.
Post by: Kael Hate on February 08, 2011, 08:01:21 am
Quintessence is Aethers 1 and only Alchemy card.Ability won't change. All Nymphs have the same skill as their alchemy card. I think the change must come in stats, and perhaps to Anubis' skill.Is there just one alchemy card? Aren't TU, Fractal, Silence and thunderbolt also alchemy cards? Anyway, I don't really think that these would be too good abilities for a nymph. If "the change must come in stats, and perhaps to Anubis' skill", then I would go for a change in Anubis skill.
Personally I think we should create a new Alchemy card like the elements got and the Nymph pick up that Ability.
Some ideas...
QuickSilver
- Gain X Quanta matching target permanents type
- Copy Targert Permanent
- Copy Target Creature, with Doomed 2
- Delay Target Creature or Permanent
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on February 08, 2011, 08:44:18 am
alchemy cards are cards with flasks on them (no kidding, all of them have a container of sorts...)... and they are nymph's abilities, each element has only one alchemy cardAbility won't change. All Nymphs have the same skill as their alchemy card. I think the change must come in stats, and perhaps to Anubis' skill.Is there just one alchemy card? Aren't TU, Fractal, Silence and thunderbolt also alchemy cards? Anyway, I don't really think that these would be too good abilities for a nymph. If "the change must come in stats, and perhaps to Anubis' skill", then I would go for a change in Anubis skill.
also, @Kael Hate, talk about nerf... anti FG will be made pretty hard...
Post by: Kael Hate on February 08, 2011, 11:30:19 am
also, @Kael Hate, talk about nerf... anti FG will be made pretty hard...Explain.
I don't intend to remove Quintessence, just add another to replace it on the Nymph.
Post by: zse on February 08, 2011, 12:44:54 pm
| :rainbow | Un-upped | Upped |
| :entropy | 1 | 1 |
| :gravity | 2 | 4 |
| :fire | 6 | 2 |
| :darkness | 3 | 9 |
| :aether | 5 | 7 |
| :life | 10 | 3 |
| :air | 4 | 10 |
| :time | 9 | 6 |
| :water | 7 | 8 |
| :light | 12 | 5 |
| :death | 8 | 11 |
| :earth | 11 | 12 |
[sarcasm]
This data clearly proves it: :aether Nymph being only the 5th most used un-upped Nymph and the 7th most used upped Nymph needs buffing badly - since clearly nobody is using this at all at the moment. :'(
[/sarcasm]
*edit: couple of errors on list was corrected*
Post by: SnoWeb on February 08, 2011, 12:46:48 pm
Also from this list:
| Anubis | Turquoise | |
| unupped | 22 | 3 |
| upped | 17 | 1 |
A common card is better than a nymph ...
We don't say it needs a buff. It needs a change!
Post by: zse on February 08, 2011, 02:10:33 pm
This shows that for the same use Anubis is more used (probably because it is better).Anubis, common card: used more because it is better.
A common card is better than a nymph ...
We don't say it needs a buff. It needs a change!
Turquoise Nymph, Ultra-rare card: used less because it is totally useless, and thus needs to be changed.
[/sarcasm]
If Turquoise Nymph is really so bad, and is being totally overshadowed by Anubis, how you explain the fact that :time :water :light :death and :earth Nymphs are used even less than it.
If this card wasn't used at all, then maybe it should be changed. But since it is already around 5th to 7th most used Nymph, it clearly shows that Turquoise is played in some decks regardless for the fact that it has similar ability than Anubis. Do we really want to see Turquoise Nymph "changed" like Light Nymph was? Do you?
Post by: Ekki on February 08, 2011, 02:33:32 pm
Well, Light Nymph is a bad example, since it's the most used unupped Nymph...This shows that for the same use Anubis is more used (probably because it is better).Anubis, common card: used more because it is better.
A common card is better than a nymph ...
We don't say it needs a buff. It needs a change!
Turquoise Nymph, Ultra-rare card: used less because it is totally useless, and thus needs to be changed.
[/sarcasm]
If Turquoise Nymph is really so bad, and is being totally overshadowed by Anubis, how you explain the fact that :time :water :light :death and :earth Nymphs are used even less than it.
If this card wasn't used at all, then maybe it should be changed. But since it is already around 5th to 7th most used Nymph, it clearly shows that Turquoise is played in some decks regardless for the fact that it has similar ability than Anubis. Do we really want to see Turquoise Nymph "changed" like Light Nymph was? Do you?
Now about Turquoise... Quintescence is a really used and useful ability, it's obvious that people will use it, so I disagree in the use of numbers to balance. If you look at Quantum Tower you will see that it's 2x more used than the second most used card, but that doesn't mean that it's OP, since it's the best quanta generator for rainbows... Well, Turquoise Nymph fails at quinting. And it's practical. You have to hold a fragile, 8 :aether (or was it 9?) creature for 1 turn to start quinting at a cost of 3 :aether (like upped quint), and you won't need that many quints.
The Nymph is used because quint is a must in most rainbows, but for PvP it's unuseful (balancing happens in PvP, not in PvE). johannhowitzer's deck shows that Nymph's Tears is a good buff for the Nymphs, since a Turquoise Nymph would have been unuseful there, and yet, using quints in that place would have been better IMO.
Post by: Atico on February 08, 2011, 03:57:06 pm
Well, Light Nymph is a bad example, since it's the most used unupped Nymph...The most unused ;) Light Nymph has got 12th place
Post by: SnoWeb on February 08, 2011, 04:28:42 pm
Anubis, common card: used more because it is better.I'm just expressing my opinion. I can not see any good reason to abuse sarcasm here.
Turquoise Nymph, Ultra-rare card: used less because it is totally useless, and thus needs to be changed.
[/sarcasm]
If Turquoise Nymph is really so bad, and is being totally overshadowed by Anubis, how you explain the fact that :time :water :light :death and :earth Nymphs are used even less than it.
If this card wasn't used at all, then maybe it should be changed. But since it is already around 5th to 7th most used Nymph, it clearly shows that Turquoise is played in some decks regardless for the fact that it has similar ability than Anubis. Do we really want to see Turquoise Nymph "changed" like Light Nymph was? Do you?
Again I don't know were your data are from. I mean I see the link but nothing is indicated there to how these data were collected. They show that :time :water :light :death and :earth Nymphs are used even less than :aether. I clearly think that :time :water :light and :earth Nymphs are better than :aether one. My opinion seem to be pointing in a different direction than your numbers. What could explain this discrepancy? As you like numbers, let's have a look at Sir valimont data on the amount of nymph in the community: here (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,13173.0.html). It shows that the 4 nymphs that are the less present are :time :water :light and :death. On the contrary, :aether is the fifth. Can we see a pattern here?
Concerning the :light nymph. I thought the original version was a bit weak. However, it was used by some players in their Rol-Hope. I think it is now better (the card having more personality). They obviously see it as a nerf ... Same facts => Two opinions ...
Again, I don't think a buff on :aether nymph is the solution. I said it, it could generate abuses with nymph tears. Kael's proposition is more in the direction I was looking. Now I'm sure that here again more than one opinion is possible.
Post by: BluePriest on February 08, 2011, 04:33:51 pm
Post by: SnoWeb on February 08, 2011, 04:36:44 pm
How it works is every time a card is played there is a 1/1000 chance of it being recorded. Honestly, when it comes to ultra rare cards though, the data is next to useless since 1)We dont know the spread of hat % of the community has them and 2)Many will use them JUST because they are rare.Thanks a lot. I agree with what you said about ultra rare cards.
AI have a question, still. Does these data include when AI plays a card? What about the relic farms in T50?
Post by: jmdt on February 08, 2011, 04:40:11 pm
Even then, the card or anubis needs a wholesale rework for both to be viable.
Post by: 10 men on February 08, 2011, 04:53:48 pm
Then make Turquise Nymph
9 :aether
creature - 5/2
4 :aether: PU
Post by: EvaRia on February 10, 2011, 04:20:24 pm
Anubis and Aether Nymph are a very useful comparison.
Let's compare parameters.
Anubis is balanced, and sees use. Aether nymph is not.
Anubis's parameters:
5 attack
8 HP
1 :aether immortalize
Aether nymph comparison.
8 attack (+3 cost)
2 HP (-1 or 2 Cost)
Mono ability (+1 cost)
Ability cost is 3 :aether (-2 or 3 Cost)
Aether nymph is balanced cost-wise to anubis.
Ideas for metagame balance:
Aether nymph is unbalanced because of low cost and expensive effect, and fragility.
Cost --> 9 :aether
Ability cost --> 2 :aether
HP --> 4
This makes it slightly harder to play, but easier to use and a bit more hardy.
Cost --> 9 :Aether
Add ability immortality (+3)
Attack --> 6 (-2)
or
Add ability immortality (+3)
Attack --> 5 (-3)
This turns aether nymph immortal, and lowers stats considerably. This makes it more of a pure immortalizer rather than an alternate attacker as well.
Cost 8 :aether --> 9 :aether
Ability Cost --> 1 :aether (+3)
Attack --> 5 (-3)
HP --> 5 (+1)
This makes Aether nymph's ability much more useable, at the cost of sacrificing it's attack power.
Just some ideas, there are plenty more ways to balance it.
Post by: DoomedProphet on February 22, 2011, 03:09:27 pm
@ddevans96: You realize that creatures in elements have summoning sickness, right? It can use its ability only after being in play for the one turn necessary for literally any damage-dealing creature control except for thunderstorm to kill it, and if your opponent has any in his hand, that's precisely what he or she will do.I believe I'll target Dimensional Shield...
I think that immortality is the way to go here specifically because of Anubis. An existing card already has the same exact ability, which can't be said for literally any other nymph. I think a more fitting ability would be to generate a copy of a target card in your hand (mix between fractal and PU), but it's the only one I have and I would actually rather have it be immortal. It makes perfect sense, since aether has two creatures with the same passive applicable skill unlike any other creature of any other element (charger is the only gravity creature with momentum, no life creatures have adrenaline, etc.). The purple nymph also has only 2 defense (upgraded, 1 unupped), but its ability gives a much higher advantage since it's the absolutely most powerful damage-reducing creature control in the game, and 1/3 cheaper than the card.
It just makes a lot of sense to me, and I know I'd actually use it if I didn't have to quint it, since at that point it's worth making a little more room in my deck and just using actual quints.
It would be an awesome lockdown ability, and Eternity, Nymph & Shield in Hand could very well be a lockdown with enough quants.
I like the idea of her coming into play as an immortal and then having a secondary ability (Mindgate, Quint, Fractal? (for a fair chunk o' quants)
Post by: Higurashi on February 22, 2011, 04:49:29 pm
Let's redeclare Parallel Universe to be Aether's Alchemy card.Genius. Hard to balance though, considering Quint. I wouldn't want Quint to go.
Then make Turquise Nymph
9 :aether
creature - 5/2
4 :aether: PU
Post by: Sir Valimont on February 22, 2011, 05:27:21 pm
The problem is Deja Vu. It's a Time card that does not implicate Aether in any way ... in fact its only defining quality is replication. In many ways the Parallel Universe effect, as it stands, therefore, is really a shared spell between the elements.Let's redeclare Parallel Universe to be Aether's Alchemy card.Genius. Hard to balance though, considering Quint. I wouldn't want Quint to go.
Then make Turquise Nymph
9 :aether
creature - 5/2
4 :aether: PU
Post by: TheonlyrealBeef on February 22, 2011, 06:36:51 pm
I like the idea, as long as it's balanced.The problem is Deja Vu. It's a Time card that does not implicate Aether in any way ... in fact its only defining quality is replication. In many ways the Parallel Universe effect, as it stands, therefore, is really a shared spell between the elements.Let's redeclare Parallel Universe to be Aether's Alchemy card.Genius. Hard to balance though, considering Quint. I wouldn't want Quint to go.
Then make Turquise Nymph
9 :aether
creature - 5/2
4 :aether: PU
Deja Vu is inferior to Twin Universe in every way except quanta cost and card advantage though. Duplicating buffed Scarabs for example is much more useful than a buffed Deja Vu which will have no ability after splitting (although combined, they are at their best, Twin Universe buffed Dejas).
But most of all: Deja Vu is less like Twin Universe on a stick than Anubis is Quintessence on a stick.....
Post by: kosyu on February 22, 2011, 11:37:59 pm
If we compare:
| Card | Quint-type | Copy-type |
| Quintessence | :aether | |
| Fractal | :aether | |
| Parallel Universe | :aether | |
| Mindgate | :aether | |
| Phase Shield | :aether |
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on February 23, 2011, 03:11:32 am
can't be mindgate
nymph abilities can only be a spell ability
so... only quint, fractal, and PU
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on February 23, 2011, 04:50:47 am
Let's look at the other buffs:
-Reduce the summoning cost - Erm no, quint on a stick is pretty strong in all cases. Even if stats lowered the cost would still remain pretty high. It also goes out of theme with all the nymphs costing 8-9 quanta.
-Increase the health - Maybe if you made it 4 to survive Rof and maybe slow down plague, but I'm not sure how else this helps.
-Decrease the ability cost - While this would work (see Arctic Squid), it might overshadow Anubis a bit much if this is done.
-Come into play immortal - I like this because this strikes as a double-edged sword - it prevents most CC from being used, but it also prevents a combo with SoR. Also it is fitting thematically, I think a nymph would have enough power to be immortal the moment it is played.
-Change the ability - While it's definitley an interesting suggestion, I'm not exactly a big fan of it. Sure, it may be similar to Anubis, but it's mono, which can make a difference sometimes.
- Quint - The current one.
- Fractal - Out of the question. Too expensive.
- Phase Shield - Not related to the Nymph at all. It's also pretty strong, possibly OP since you could pretty much be invicible from physical damage for an upkeep for 4 :aether.
- Mindgate - This feels redundant since we already have a permanent that can do it. For those of you who point to :time 's 4 different methods of drawning, let me note that they are all useful in different situations. Precog is a quick draw, Sundial blocks damage, Hourglass is the generic drawer, and Nymph is a decent attacker that also gives the added benefit of viewing your opponent's hand. On the other hand, the only difference between this proposed change and Mindgate is what cards they are vulnerable to.
- TU - *points to Mitosis* I have a valid explanation for that one, especially since PU can carry over stat buffs as well as copy from the opponent's side unlike Mitosis. Please don't.
- Copying a card to hand - See phase shield. Upkeep is increased, but by the time you get this combo rolling you should still have enough quanta (Initially copy your pillars to increase eventual quanta gain, then copy shields)
Creature Value = Attack + HP modifier + Ability Value + Bonus
Unupped
Attack = + 7
HP = + 0 (1-5)
Ability Value= +3, but -1 for expensive ability cost. Final Value : +2
Bonus?: Aether generally gets -1 cost for creatures.
Final Value : 8
Upped adds +1 with the attack increase, but that is negated by the -1 for upgrading.
Aether nymph is overpriced.
Usage Status:
Turquoise Nymph has been used about 6000 times.
Aether Nymph has been used about 2000 times (but then again Upgrading nymphs = bad to most people)
Combined this is 8000 times.
Anubis in both forms has been used about a total of 111000 times.
Quintessence has been used 376000 times.
So what does Anubis have that Nymph doesn't? High HP.
What does Quint have that Nymph doesn't? Speed.
If Nymph was given Immaterial, it would make it much more defendable, and since rares are supposed to be slightly more powerful than normal cards, it makes sense.
Alternatively, Nymph's Quintessence could be given the status "this can be used multiple times per turn", bump the ability cost to 4-5 and lower the attack to 3. This would make it extremely fast when it hits the field, and better than Anubis. Got a problem with it doing that? Well, CC it the moment it comes out or play a damage shield. That's how Immortals die.
One more alternative would just be lower the attack and raise the HP. I'm not sure how well this would go, but then it'd be at least on par with Anubis.
Post by: RootRanger on February 23, 2011, 05:01:51 am
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on February 23, 2011, 05:20:55 am
The usage statistics are skewed when comparing Anubis to the Turquoise Nymph because the nymph is a rare. I think the card is actually balanced; let me explain. If you play silence the same turn you play the aether nymph, the aether nymph can not be hit by spell CC. With the lobotomizer you remove skills that could harm it. Since 1.26, the Turquoise nymph has a much easier time immortalizing itself. However, just because it is balanced doesn't mean it needs a change. It's rather unfair that the Turquoise nymph is the only nymph whose skill is shared by another creature. Either Anubis or the nymph should get a new skill. I say the nymph because Anubis is more common and would affect more people.so... your argument that the nymph is balanced is because it can immortalize itself safely?
um... that doesn't mean anything, even if it's immortalized, it's still the weakest nymph (maybe better than nymph queen)
I would take an anubis over the nymph anyday
Post by: RootRanger on February 23, 2011, 05:23:48 am
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on February 23, 2011, 05:26:34 am
I'm saying a lot of the poll is skewed because it was pre-silence.perhaps, but does silence help nymph that much?
I say no... sure it allows it to immortalize itself, but again, even when immortal, this nymph is inferior to almost all other nymphs
Post by: RootRanger on February 23, 2011, 05:43:55 am
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on February 23, 2011, 05:50:33 am
Post by: willng3 on February 23, 2011, 05:53:13 am
Silence helps remarkably well. Unless your opponent has a card in play with an active ability that kills, you can Silence and then play the Nymph without worrying at all. I ran a deck with 3 Nymphs, 6 Silence, and 6 Phase Shields, plus a few TUs and was able to successfully grind T50 (not the farms, actual decks), granted it was slow. I honestly didn't realize the buff Silence gave to Turquoise Nymph at the time of its release. However, in many cases this would amount to the same as holding a Quintessence in your hand and using it on the Nymph after playing it. Still think it needs a buff, however, if only slightly.I'm saying a lot of the poll is skewed because it was pre-silence.perhaps, but does silence help nymph that much?
I say no... sure it allows it to immortalize itself, but again, even when immortal, this nymph is inferior to almost all other nymphs
Post by: zse on February 23, 2011, 07:37:28 am
Don't you guys see how making :aether Nymph have Parallel Universe ability would become as much overshadowed by Mitosis as the Quint-ability is now overshadowed by Anubis?
Only difference from change 'Nymph Quint -> PU' would be making :aether :darkness :entropy Nymph's Tears decks much worse. Do we really need to kill that deck-type just to make this card different from what it is now?
Post by: johannhowitzer on February 23, 2011, 01:00:18 pm
I think PU-Nymph would be abuse-able. Try a :fire :aether or :life :aether combo with 22 copies of Fahrenheit/Adrena-Staff and see what happens... the former is 22 damage every 5 fire quanta, while the latter is 440 healing per turn. I believe PU isn't on a stick for a reason.
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on February 23, 2011, 01:49:24 pm
Post by: 10 men on February 23, 2011, 02:06:52 pm
Don't you guys see how making :aether Nymph have Parallel Universe ability would become as much overshadowed by Mitosis as the Quint-ability is now overshadowed by Anubis?Not to those who like exponential sequences...
Quote
I think PU-Nymph would be abuse-able. Try a :fire :aether or :life :aether combo with 22 copies of Fahrenheit/Adrena-Staff and see what happens... the former is 22 damage every 5 fire quanta, while the latter is 440 healing per turn. I believe PU isn't on a stick for a reason.Sure it's abusable, if the opponent doesn't like control cards and you're good at pulling 4-card combos...
Post by: Kaos. on February 23, 2011, 02:12:31 pm
Post by: Higurashi on February 23, 2011, 02:15:16 pm
So what does Anubis have that Nymph doesn't? High HP.Not the primary reason people use it over Nymph. The primary reason is this: it costs :time to summon and :aether to use, therefore reducing the load on :aether for cards like Fractal or TU for Flying Eternities or what have you.
The secondary reason is this: Anubis' ability costs 2 when unupped, 1 when upped. Nymph's costs 3 both upped and unupped. There's no reason to spend that much :aether when you can even out the quanta distribution.
Anubis is the only creature that's doing a Nymph's job and doing it better. It is, indeed, the real problem. Not the Nymph. That said, Quint overshadows both, but if you wanted continuous Quint, I think Nymph is the only creature that should rationally be capable of that. Regardless of whether Anubis changed or not, it still needs an ability cost reduction, however.
Napalm and I wanted to make Anubis a mid-range attacker for Time, but it's getting Ghost now. Sure, it's expensive, but it's another attacker which is just what Time needed. So, when I'm thinking about this issue, I'm thinking about new abilities for Anubis. In fact, its current ability doesn't even make sense thematically. The death god Anubis was a god of mummification. He protected the dead and lead them to the afterlife. He did not prevent death or caused it by himself.
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on February 23, 2011, 04:00:17 pm
You don't need four cards. You'd just use a Mitosis/TU combo to swarm the field, with maybe an SoR thrown in for good measure.Quote from: johannhowitzerI think PU-Nymph would be abuse-able. Try a :fire :aether or :life :aether combo with 22 copies of Fahrenheit/Adrena-Staff and see what happens... the former is 22 damage every 5 fire quanta, while the latter is 440 healing per turn. I believe PU isn't on a stick for a reason.Sure it's abusable, if the opponent doesn't like control cards and you're good at pulling 4-card combos...
*Points to the Buff Anubis thread (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,20496.0.html)*So what does Anubis have that Nymph doesn't? High HP.Not the primary reason people use it over Nymph. The primary reason is this: it costs :time to summon and :aether to use, therefore reducing the load on :aether for cards like Fractal or TU for Flying Eternities or what have you.
The secondary reason is this: Anubis' ability costs 2 when unupped, 1 when upped. Nymph's costs 3 both upped and unupped. There's no reason to spend that much :aether when you can even out the quanta distribution.
Anubis is the only creature that's doing a Nymph's job and doing it better. It is, indeed, the real problem. Not the Nymph. That said, Quint overshadows both, but if you wanted continuous Quint, I think Nymph is the only creature that should rationally be capable of that. Regardless of whether Anubis changed or not, it still needs an ability cost reduction, however.
Napalm and I wanted to make Anubis a mid-range attacker for Time, but it's getting Ghost now. Sure, it's expensive, but it's another attacker which is just what Time needed. So, when I'm thinking about this issue, I'm thinking about new abilities for Anubis. In fact, its current ability doesn't even make sense thematically. The death god Anubis was a god of mummification. He protected the dead and lead them to the afterlife. He did not prevent death or caused it by himself.
Different abilities have been one of the suggested buff options.
If the cost is what needs to be lowered, than the solution is simple - lower the ability cost.
Are there any better options?
Post by: Higurashi on February 23, 2011, 04:25:51 pm
There's a problem with simply lowering the cost, as it's a mono-ability. That's why it's been more expensive thus far. To compete with Anubis in usefulness it does need to have the same cost though: 2 for upped, 1 for unupped. But since the Nymph isn't the problem, I moved the discussion to Anubis. It's not meant to be followed up in this thread.
Post by: BluePriest on March 06, 2011, 01:11:27 am
(http://elementscommunity.org/images/Cards/TurquoiseNymph.png)(http://elementscommunity.org/images/Cards/Upgrade.png)(http://elementscommunity.org/images/Cards/AetherNymph.png)
Anubis-Nymph
5/8 > 7/4
2 :aether > 3 :aether (Ability cost)
8 :time > 8 :aether (summon cost)
When comparing the upgraded versions,
Anubis-Nymph
5/8 > 8/4
1 :aether > 3 :aether (Ability cost)
8 :time > 8 :aether (summon cost)
Also, a quint costs 4 :aether upgraded only 3) By the time you get the quantum to play the nymphs ability once, you had the quantum to play the quint 3-4 TIMES. Oty, Shockwave, and Lightning can all kill it in one shot. Then it is also sufferable from drain life, fire bolt, and ice bolt due to them only needing 10 of the respective element to ohko it.
Post by: BluePriest on March 06, 2011, 01:12:09 am
Post by: kitty45 on March 06, 2011, 01:34:09 am
Post by: killybob on March 06, 2011, 01:38:39 am
i want anubis changed.
Post by: icecoldbro on March 06, 2011, 01:55:32 am
Card Was Buffed. New Topic to avoid confusion with old and new versionNymph now has 4 Health in both versions, should be changed from original post, also the casting cost is 8 :aether not 9.
(http://elementscommunity.org/images/Cards/TurquoiseNymph.png)(http://elementscommunity.org/images/Cards/Upgrade.png)(http://elementscommunity.org/images/Cards/AetherNymph.png)
Anubis-Nymph
5/8 > 7/2
2 :aether > 3 :aether (Ability cost)
8 :time > 9 :aether (summon cost)
When comparing the upgraded versions,
Anubis-Nymph
5/8 > 8/2
1 :aether > 3 :aether (Ability cost)
8 :time > 9 :aether (summon cost)
Also, a quint costs 4 :aether upgraded only 3) By the time you get the quantum to play the nymphs ability once, you had the quantum to play the quint 3-4 TIMES. Oty, Shockwave, and Lightning can all kill it in one shot. Then it is also sufferable from drain life, fire bolt, and ice bolt due to them only needing 10 of the respective element to ohko it.
I agree that Turquoise needs a buff, but nothing major is necessary maybe lower the ability cost for uped one only, to 2 :aether.
Post by: killybob on March 06, 2011, 01:57:39 am
Post by: Sug81 on March 06, 2011, 09:16:11 am
Post by: BluePriest on March 06, 2011, 02:21:49 pm
Post by: killybob on March 06, 2011, 02:25:24 pm
Quote
only phase spider can be quinted but i'd rather use TU or fractal itquint is only useful outside of a mono deck and anubis fits onto that catagory perfectly. more so than the expensive nymph. the only thing left to do is reduce the cost of the nymph. only trouble with that is that it would go out of sync with the other nymphs, costing a lot less.
Post by: BluePriest on March 06, 2011, 03:18:14 pm
quint is only useful outside of a mono deck and anubis fits onto that catagory perfectly. more so than the expensive nymph. the only thing left to do is reduce the cost of the nymph. only trouble with that is that it would go out of sync with the other nymphs, costing a lot less.
Aflatoxin only Costs 1 :death on the nymph precog is free on Time nymph. Considering another creature already has this skill, and it is cheaper on that creature, then i dont see the problem with this card being only 1 :aether. Especially since you need 8 to bring it out in the first place
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on March 06, 2011, 03:23:32 pm
agreed, but precog is not free...
Post by: killybob on March 06, 2011, 03:24:52 pm
Post by: BaitaLon on January 31, 2013, 05:03:32 pm
(http://elementscommunity.org/images/Cards/Upgrade.png)
I think Turquoise nymph is too underpowered, i think cost ability should be 2 :aether instead of 3 :aether
Post by: Drake_XIV on January 31, 2013, 06:10:52 pm
Also, the ability is already cheaper than standard Quint and is repeatable.
Post by: Rutarete on January 31, 2013, 06:13:01 pm
Because it's stats aren't good enough?Only cheaper than the unupped.
Also, the ability is already cheaper than standard Quint and is repeatable.
Post by: BaitaLon on January 31, 2013, 06:51:49 pm
Because it's stats aren't good enough?
Also, the ability is already cheaper than standard Quint and is repeatable.
The stats are good but i don't see effective in any deck
Post by: Chapuz on January 31, 2013, 06:55:10 pm
Post by: Drake_XIV on January 31, 2013, 07:03:55 pm
Because it's stats aren't good enough?
Also, the ability is already cheaper than standard Quint and is repeatable.
The stats are good but i don't see effective in any deck
PU Nymph. 'Nuff said.
Post by: BaitaLon on January 31, 2013, 07:06:00 pm
it's Aether's best attacker. 'nuff said.
Phase recluse 7/2 atack for 4 :aether! , Also Turquoise nymph + Immortality on itself = 8/4 for 11 quantas, thats like a phase dragon but can be killed before use ability
Post by: Chapuz on January 31, 2013, 07:14:41 pm
sorry, unupped best attacker, even taking quint out of the theme.it's Aether's best attacker. 'nuff said.
Phase recluse 7/2 atack for 4 :aether! , Also Turquoise nymph + Immortality on itself = 8/4 for 11 quantas, thats like a phase dragon but can be killed before use ability
Post by: omegareaper7 on January 31, 2013, 07:21:54 pm
Post by: Vangelios on January 31, 2013, 09:16:22 pm
Post by: Drake_XIV on January 31, 2013, 11:47:01 pm
I vote for it to come into play immaterial, it makes perfect sense, but lower your attack and defense, I suggest 4 | 2 and upgraded 5 | 2
You mean making it effectively weaker than Immortal?
Post by: Poker Alho on February 01, 2013, 12:00:46 am
Post by: Vangelios on February 01, 2013, 01:01:08 am
In terms of attack, defense and cost, yes, but maintaining their abilityI vote for it to come into play immaterial, it makes perfect sense, but lower your attack and defense, I suggest 4 | 2 and upgraded 5 | 2
You mean making it effectively weaker than Immortal?
Post by: Drake_XIV on February 01, 2013, 01:05:32 am
In terms of attack, defense and cost, yes, but maintaining their abilityI vote for it to come into play immaterial, it makes perfect sense, but lower your attack and defense, I suggest 4 | 2 and upgraded 5 | 2
You mean making it effectively weaker than Immortal?
... that sounds like a severe nerf to me...
Post by: omegareaper7 on February 01, 2013, 01:05:53 am
There ability is barely any good in mono aether as is. And its to expensive to use in anything that isn't aether heavy.In terms of attack, defense and cost, yes, but maintaining their abilityI vote for it to come into play immaterial, it makes perfect sense, but lower your attack and defense, I suggest 4 | 2 and upgraded 5 | 2
You mean making it effectively weaker than Immortal?
Post by: Drake_XIV on February 01, 2013, 01:25:57 am
There ability is barely any good in mono aether as is. And its to expensive to use in anything that isn't aether heavy.In terms of attack, defense and cost, yes, but maintaining their abilityI vote for it to come into play immaterial, it makes perfect sense, but lower your attack and defense, I suggest 4 | 2 and upgraded 5 | 2
You mean making it effectively weaker than Immortal?
But any cheaper and there'd be an issue with facing a more cost efficient Immaterial army...
Post by: UnderneathTheLens on February 01, 2013, 01:30:07 am
- It's expensive.
- It's the only nymph ability that another creature also has
- As omegareaper said, it's ability isn't very useful in MonoAether, which means that anything making use of its ability should be a duo or a trio, but an Anubis is much better for that
Verdict: It's a good attacker, but its ability is very lacking.
Post by: omegareaper7 on February 01, 2013, 03:38:57 am
In case you meant ability cost, I was talking about playing cost, not the ability cost.There ability is barely any good in mono aether as is. And its to expensive to use in anything that isn't aether heavy.In terms of attack, defense and cost, yes, but maintaining their abilityI vote for it to come into play immaterial, it makes perfect sense, but lower your attack and defense, I suggest 4 | 2 and upgraded 5 | 2
You mean making it effectively weaker than Immortal?
But any cheaper and there'd be an issue with facing a more cost efficient Immaterial army...