[Official] Skeleton | Elite Skeleton

[omegareaper7]

Having only made one marginally effective deck with them, I approve of this change. Getting free 4/3s is better then 1 cost 4/3s :p  Auto mulligan aside, that is always a concern for 0 costs though.

[ARTHANASIOS]

Having only made one marginally effective deck with them, I approve of this change. Getting free 4/3s is better then 1 cost 4/3s :p  Auto mulligan aside, that is always a concern for 0 costs though.

That's the problem. Skeletal decks with Eclipse would be too powerful (or "playable" if you prefer), thus nerfing Photon too much (it is the only unupped creature that costs nothing) in addition of nerfing Boneyard|Graveyard because it would be much more effective to just pack 6 Skellies.

In other words, I am completely AGAINST this buff:
* It claim Photon's true power of costing nothing.
* Skeletons were meant to be spammed via Boneyard or even Skull Shield and it should remain like this.
* Undead is a passive which 'protects' Skeletons from a very common and powerful CC; Reverse Time. Moreover, you can pack an Eternity to give yourself a 'mutant' army.
* Skeletons are buffed by Nightfall|Eclipse; this alone makes it clear Skeletons shouldn't cost nothing.
* This change wouldn't buff the element of . The true buffed elements would be and , because they would be able to use Skeleton heavy comboes with only and quanta resources.

[Espithel]

If a card, like photon, is so bad that buffing another card makes it even worse, then just buff skeleton AND photon. Saying that an already unplayable card is going to be made more unplayable solves nothing.

I have no problem with photon generating light when played, and upped generating light every turn. But that's another topic.

When I make a card design, I completely ignore considering balancing it so really bad cards like unupped photon, shrodinger's cat, skeleton, flooding, boneyard and other things of that ilk lose purpose, because they don't really have purpose in the first place.

[serprex]

@ARTH Eclipse/Skeleton/Fractal will still be worse than Fractix/Guardtal/Frogtal/Devtal (& probably Flesh Recluse-tal too)

[Espithel]

Not to mention Damsel-SouFflé-tal.

[jarozaoz]

Skeltal for me sounds good. :I
Oh, i just imagined skeleton + fractal + eternity deck. If skeletons someday will be changed to have 0 cost, it will be funny deck. ♥

[ARTHANASIOS]

@Frozengaia: Photon is not a bad card and not an extremely good either. It is a very well-balanced card around its concept; a costless critter, perfect for fractal, mitosis, bond, hope, luciferase, immolation and their comboes. It does a single thing and it is very good at it but nothing special anywhere else and that's fine.
There is a reason Ash Eater and Photon generate quanta of their elements only while upgraded. -generating and -generating creatures would be OP in unupped meta.

@Serpex: Skeletal will be an duo and, though I agree it won't be as good as devtal (because Devourer is actually OP), it is a RT-resistant creature and RT/Eternity are 2 of the most common cards in the game. Still, this is just one of the reasons I've mentioned above.

Skeleton can't become costless without ruining the overall EtG balance; a raise to its health by 1, 2 or even 3 would be a much more suitable buff imho.

[Espithel]

If photon is balanced, why doesn't it see play for any job that's not interchangable (spark or photon make equal immo targets.) in good decks?

It is very good at a single thing, but that single thing is terrible.
Like SoV.

But, this is an argument for another thread. :/

[dragtom]

how about making this generate upon playing from hand/coming in play?
That way, it does not mess up the mulligan,
you will still need your quanta to play it,
but a single nova will be enough for all your skellies.

maybe, thematically, it should be upon dying instead,
though I don't see much more use for it that way.

[andretimpa]

You can also chage the cost to 1 if the mulligan is an issue. Doesn't hurt a time duo using skellies.

[Jen-i]

That's the problem. Skeletal decks with Eclipse would be too powerful (or "playable" if you prefer), thus nerfing Photon too much (it is the only unupped creature that costs nothing) in addition of nerfing Boneyard|Graveyard because it would be much more effective to just pack 6 Skellies.

I'm not convinced that Skeleton + Eclipse = an overpowered combo, it might be slightly above the cost/power curve, however few rush decks rely on 4atk creatures for a reason, and the few that do (Fractrix / Psiontal) have creature abilities that make them much more worthwhile to play.

Coincidently, photons are not the "only" free unupped creature - Sparks fall into that category as well. And I don't see how having an additional option as an immo target is a bad thing. Strictly speaking Skeleton would then be better than Photon - but the idea listed above for Photon generating when played isn't a bad idea either.

In upped play, Photons & Sparks are joined by Gemfinders & Damselflies, each of which have a niche in the immo rush decks - I don't see Skeleton as being superior to any one of them, just giving Immo Decks a different option or flavour.


In other words, I am completely AGAINST this buff:
* It claim Photon's true power of costing nothing.
  As I said this is not exclusive of Photon, and neither is it all that epic of an ability

* Skeletons were meant to be spammed via Boneyard or even Skull Shield and it should remain like this.
  If this is the case Skeleton shouldn't be a stand-alone card, like Ash or Malignant cell it would only be accessible by an effect.

* Undead is a passive which 'protects' Skeletons from a very common and powerful CC; Reverse Time. Moreover, you can pack an Eternity to give yourself a 'mutant' army.
  While Skeleton's are protected, it is very rare that a player would want to target one with RT, there should be many superior targets in a rush deck. The only exception to this might be draw-locking the ai, but arguing an ability is good because the ai is too stupid to know how to deal with it, isn't a very effective arguement

* Skeletons are buffed by Nightfall|Eclipse; this alone makes it clear Skeletons shouldn't cost nothing.
That alone doesn't make it clear to me, a horde of 2 attack creatures, or even 4 attack creatures, if you manage to fractal them still isn't a terrifying rush deck. Perhaps the 3HP is too much with upped skelies, in which case reducing its upped HP to 1 would be an effective change.

* This change wouldn't buff the element of . The true buffed elements would be and , because they would be able to use Skeleton heavy comboes with only and quanta resources.
  I didn't make the suggestion as a buff to , I made it as a buff to a nearly useless card, one which sees virtually no competitive play, even in very restrictive environments

If you'd flesh out your argument about why Skeleton + Eclipse is an overpowered combo I'd love to have that conversation, as I said, your logic may be clear to you, but its not clear to me.

[TribalTrouble]

May I recommend that Arth make a deck example using current card codes to demonstrate a deck that could be possibly very strong with 0 cost Skele instead of just arguing?