Post by: Daguerreo on December 06, 2011, 12:21:14 am
(http://elementscommunity.org/images/Cards/Upgrade.png)
This card still seems too situational.
To work well it needs:
+6 creatures on the field.
Flooding.
To satisfy these conditions you have to have:
A 4 cards combo (SoP, Flooding, a creature and a spawner card like Mitosis or Fractal).
A huge amount of quanta: to play spawner, to play creatures, to keep flooding active.
To be delayed for 1 turn
At least one turn more to compensate turn of delay (with low Atk creatures, that means not high damage in any case)
And it isn't an OTK combo, not even a perfect draw. Many others combos deal more damage of this in less turns.
Moreover, it's very easy to break with:
Quanta Denial.
Creature Control.
Stall cards like Phase Shield.
Too much cards, slow, fragile and not so effective too.
What else to say?
Discuss :)
Post by: Shrink on December 06, 2011, 12:45:52 am
Post by: ddevans96 on December 06, 2011, 12:49:07 am
1) SoP counters SoX, and any card that does that is needed.
2) The theme would have to be redone entirely.
Other than those I'd like it, but it can probably be buffed in other ways too.
Post by: willng3 on December 06, 2011, 12:49:26 am
Post by: Rutarete on December 06, 2011, 01:40:14 am
As for possible buffs, there's lower cost, or adding to the effect that the opponent's creatures are delayed for a turn also. Maybe Switch the delay from you to your opponent; The delay's still involved in the theme (though slightly changed) and Daguerreo gets his wanted change ;)
Post by: suxerz on December 06, 2011, 01:55:27 am
However, I'm not sure how to fit that in the card's description. >.<
Post by: dragonsdemesne on December 06, 2011, 02:24:15 am
I have yet to see this card used once in the arena. I know that doesn't mean it's not used at all, but it's definitely not common.I've seen it in a few arena decks on rare occasion, but the AI doesn't seem to ever play it. I've seen it with precognition and mindgates, and seen it in regular spins.
What if instead of delaying your creatures for a turn, it did something like remove 1 turn from the SoSa turn counter? I'm not sure how that would fit thematically, but it would keep the intended use of being a counter to SoSa while managing to suck less.
Post by: furballdn on December 06, 2011, 02:49:04 am
Post by: PuppyChow on December 06, 2011, 03:29:31 am
As it is, it does need a buff, but it has its place in some scorpion decks or mono water (as in, 6x physalia, 6x crawler, 6x SoP, 2x congeal or permafrost or something, and 10x tower, death mark).
Post by: Hyroen on December 06, 2011, 03:39:02 am
Along with that however, it should probably provide a standard buff to any and all creatures possibly +2 |+0.
Would that outshine Purify?
Post by: mesaprotector on December 06, 2011, 05:15:44 am
Post by: Naesala on December 06, 2011, 06:04:50 am
Post by: Tiko on December 06, 2011, 11:22:39 am
I've spent many hours from my limited online time in the last few days just to figure out at least one real nasty deck with my newly aquired So(a)Ps, but all these hours of nervewreckage finally brought me to the conclusion that it's just another theoretical powercard in Water's arsenal - alongside with Flooding.
The card's main targets would be (at least as I figured so far) Water's fragile little creatures: Squids, Physalias, Flayers, unupped Crawlers, or Puffers even, where the one turn damage loss doesn't matter that much, contrary to the big hitters where you're better off just playing another creature in almost any case (unless SoSa is in play; still, if chained, you're screwed anyways). Yet, even after they are soaped up, they don't put up much of a fight.
The +4/+4 with flooding sounds too good to pass, but even with the tightened flood-effect it's real hard to get there, it's a many card combo, and when you're finally there, you'll probably run dry of quanta by the time if you relied on squids/shield paired with the upkeep. Or if you operate with fractal, you find yourself lacking in defense, speed, and off-element quanta when completely countered by a single shield.
So the conclusion is: in almost any case it hinders you more than it threatens your opponent, and slows down a relatively slow element even more, which by itself is a suicide in the current fast-paced metagame. Sometimes I thought when playing that even the Permanent-freeze effect (which was the first idea of Zanz), though somewhat boring, would be much more of a service and overall useful than the current shard.
My best idea for a "slight" buff -while keeping the theme - would be making it a stasis effect also, delaying both sides of the field: this would eliminate it's suicidical (and almost unfair) disadvantage for you, but it may overshadow Sundial that way (though haste can still give you card advantage). Or just an additional Silence-like effect for your opponent in that turn. Personally I'd like to see the former, even the card text would be easy to modify.
Also it is real saddening to see how the AI fails to use it properly.
Post by: aristalis on December 06, 2011, 01:30:15 pm
+2/+3 regen is nothing to sneeze at. And think of the synergy with overdrive :O
Post by: Jangoo on December 06, 2011, 04:47:12 pm
Why does it need a buff?
It's basically an Eclipse for water which will turn Crawlers into dragons and the already nasty squids into midrange attackers ...
Add the fact that it stacks (?) as opposed to Eclipse and you got yourself something pretty powerful.
Post by: Atico on December 06, 2011, 07:26:27 pm
One turn delay isn't counter for SoS. 6 SoS gives 12 turns, here You have half of this time. We should remove this delay or give delay for both players.
Post by: Daguerreo on December 06, 2011, 10:55:23 pm
Post by: Daguerreo on December 06, 2011, 10:57:02 pm
Why does it need a buff?Reasons have been explained well from Tiko, in my opinion.
Post by: Dengeki on December 10, 2011, 07:50:35 pm
Other than that, the only way I see this card getting better is if a slew of new quick creatures gets added to water. Just my 2 cents.
Post by: Bleys295 on December 12, 2011, 04:00:42 pm
Post by: Sevs on December 12, 2011, 07:23:39 pm
I think if anything needs to be changed it would be the turn delay. There would still have to be a pretty big downside, but something different. possible ideas
- prevent all abilities that turn?
- take an HP loss
- freezes some (idk 20%?) of your creatures or delays only some pf your creatures
i am all out of ideas
Post by: Atico on December 13, 2011, 10:47:46 am
- prevent all abilities that turn?Maybe making delay creature as untargetable solve problem?
Post by: Dm on December 13, 2011, 11:42:22 am
My personal opinion is that this card is in the wrong element. This card would become stronger if it was changed to, Idk, a :life card. Giving life a much needed counter to SoSa.Adrenaline much?
Other than that, the only way I see this card getting better is if a slew of new quick creatures gets added to water. Just my 2 cents.
Post by: SnoWeb on December 13, 2011, 12:15:24 pm
- change the one sided delay into something else because said side effect is too dramatic for the shard to have a real interest
and - not overshadow sundial
and - keep the theme of patience
- add +n|+n to all you creatures n being the number of turns you don't play any cards
or - add +1|+0 to all your creatures (+2|+0 for water, and +4|+0 if flooded) . Last until you play a card.
or - add +1|+0 to all your creatures (+2|+0 for water, and +4|+0 if flooded) . You cannot play or draw any card next turn.
or - add +1|+0 to all your creatures (+2|+0 for water) . Delay all your creatures not underwater.
The fourth possibility is giving a different bonus for flooding: no drawback for creatures underwater. It's still tricky to play but it might work better that the present one
Post by: Atico on December 13, 2011, 04:24:30 pm
Add +2/0 for all creatures and delay non :water creatures. Double buff when underwater.
or making delay creatures untargetable. It will be fine change especially for water.
Post by: Daguerreo on December 13, 2011, 06:30:12 pm
+6 creatures on the field.
Flooding.
To satisfy these conditions you have to have:
A 4 cards combo (SoP, Flooding, a creature and a spawner card like Mitosis or Fractal).
A huge amount of quanta: to play spawner, to play creatures, to keep flooding active.
To be delayed for 1 turn
At least one turn more to compensate turn of delay (with low Atk creatures, that means not high damage in any case)
And it isn't an OTK combo, not even a perfect draw. Many others combos deal more damage of this in less turns.
Moreover, it's very easy to break with:
Quanta Denial.
Creature Control.
Stall cards like Phase Shield.
Too much cards, slow, fragile and not so effective too.
Post by: Higurashi on December 13, 2011, 06:50:27 pm
As for those making a comparison with Nightfall/Eclipse; it's not like them. Firstly you pay for every copy played, and they're not cheap. Secondly, you have to either wait until you have enough creatures in play before using it or use it prematurely. This slowdown is the biggest flaw of the card, as the slowdown will hurt you more often than not. Thirdly, Eclipse is quite a bit more powerful with instant +2 attack for a cheaper cost than 2 Soaps, and the delay Soap inflicts makes it very weak offensively speaking.
Try making any deck with Soap. You'll find your deck gains speed by removing them and adding more offence every time. Unfortunately true even with Deja Vu.
So my vote is still with getting the HP buff back. It's the only straight-forward way to make the huge delay worthwhile.
Post by: The_Mormegil on December 13, 2011, 07:29:04 pm
Soap lost my interest when the +1 to HP was removed, and I still don't think it was necessary or a good idea. It removed interesting strategies and weakened the card immensely outside of its extremely situational usage with Water creatures and Flooding, which will never be a winning strategy.Getting the HP buff back enables a combo with Fractal Sparks and...? Nothing else? It's hardly a solution, is it not? Giving the card one specific and probably not even that game-changing usage? Or am I missing something?
As for those making a comparison with Nightfall/Eclipse; it's not like them. Firstly you pay for every copy played, and they're not cheap. Secondly, you have to either wait until you have enough creatures in play before using it or use it prematurely. This slowdown is the biggest flaw of the card, as the slowdown will hurt you more often than not. Thirdly, Eclipse is quite a bit more powerful with instant +2 attack for a cheaper cost than 2 Soaps, and the delay Soap inflicts makes it very weak offensively speaking.
Try making any deck with Soap. You'll find your deck gains speed by removing them and adding more offence every time. Unfortunately true even with Deja Vu.
So my vote is still with getting the HP buff back. It's the only straight-forward way to make the huge delay worthwhile.
Post by: Daguerreo on December 13, 2011, 07:32:45 pm
Buffing flooding (allowing to flood more slot with more flood in field) and adding new more creatures which synergize with it could be another solution?Soap lost my interest when the +1 to HP was removed, and I still don't think it was necessary or a good idea. It removed interesting strategies and weakened the card immensely outside of its extremely situational usage with Water creatures and Flooding, which will never be a winning strategy.Getting the HP buff back enables a combo with Fractal Sparks and...? Nothing else? It's hardly a solution, is it not? Giving the card one specific and probably not even that game-changing usage? Or am I missing something?
As for those making a comparison with Nightfall/Eclipse; it's not like them. Firstly you pay for every copy played, and they're not cheap. Secondly, you have to either wait until you have enough creatures in play before using it or use it prematurely. This slowdown is the biggest flaw of the card, as the slowdown will hurt you more often than not. Thirdly, Eclipse is quite a bit more powerful with instant +2 attack for a cheaper cost than 2 Soaps, and the delay Soap inflicts makes it very weak offensively speaking.
Try making any deck with Soap. You'll find your deck gains speed by removing them and adding more offence every time. Unfortunately true even with Deja Vu.
So my vote is still with getting the HP buff back. It's the only straight-forward way to make the huge delay worthwhile.
Post by: The_Mormegil on December 13, 2011, 07:44:32 pm
Post by: RavingRabbid on December 13, 2011, 07:52:36 pm
Buff.
Post by: Rutarete on December 13, 2011, 11:51:01 pm
Post by: Higurashi on December 14, 2011, 05:41:24 am
It's not especially specific when you consider it's a global buff it used to have, and it's a big step toward making the one-turn delay worthwhile. I would use it if the buff was simply improved, and I don't think anything more complicated is needed or rational. I'd think that much is obvious from my post.Soap lost my interest when the +1 to HP was removed, and I still don't think it was necessary or a good idea. It removed interesting strategies and weakened the card immensely outside of its extremely situational usage with Water creatures and Flooding, which will never be a winning strategy.Getting the HP buff back enables a combo with Fractal Sparks and...? Nothing else? It's hardly a solution, is it not? Giving the card one specific and probably not even that game-changing usage? Or am I missing something?
As for those making a comparison with Nightfall/Eclipse; it's not like them. Firstly you pay for every copy played, and they're not cheap. Secondly, you have to either wait until you have enough creatures in play before using it or use it prematurely. This slowdown is the biggest flaw of the card, as the slowdown will hurt you more often than not. Thirdly, Eclipse is quite a bit more powerful with instant +2 attack for a cheaper cost than 2 Soaps, and the delay Soap inflicts makes it very weak offensively speaking.
Try making any deck with Soap. You'll find your deck gains speed by removing them and adding more offence every time. Unfortunately true even with Deja Vu.
So my vote is still with getting the HP buff back. It's the only straight-forward way to make the huge delay worthwhile.
Post by: SnoWeb on December 14, 2011, 07:02:40 am
add +1|+0 to all your creatures (+2|+0 for water, and +4|+0 if flooded). Last until you play a card.
@SnoWeb - it is too complicated for card text.The text can be changed. The important part is that it solves the card. Btw, I don't find it complicated.
I think Snoweb's second suggestion is one of the best mentioned so far. "Lasts until you play a card" <-- (near) Perfect example of patience right there. The stat buffs are the (near) part.The buffs are almost the same as those of the original card. Apart from that I agree that it is a perfect example of patience. I think "Lasts until you play a card" should be added in the pole.
Post by: The_Mormegil on December 14, 2011, 07:31:14 am
Getting the HP buff back enables a combo with Fractal Sparks and...? Nothing else? It's hardly a solution, is it not? Giving the card one specific and probably not even that game-changing usage? Or am I missing something?It's not especially specific when you consider it's a global buff it used to have, and it's a big step toward making the one-turn delay worthwhile. I would use it if the buff was simply improved, and I don't think anything more complicated is needed or rational. I'd think that much is obvious from my post.
[/quote]
So your point is to have a better buff. Increasing the attack even further can be bad with fractal (it is either useless or overwhelming), so an hp buff can be added. I'm unsure whether this would actually make it viable apart from Fractal Sparks, but it surely is a point to consider.
Post by: DoubleCapitals on December 14, 2011, 09:49:48 am
How about just changing it back to +1|+1? Yes, I know about Ball Lightning + Fractal, but with the turn delay any mass CC does it in.Going back with what he said. Agreed. There are enough mass CC cards to counter Ball Lightning + Fractal, just like with fractaled Rols.
Post by: Daguerreo on December 14, 2011, 09:51:51 am
Yes but, if zanz removed that part, was for a clear intent to avoid a BL spam.How about just changing it back to +1|+1? Yes, I know about Ball Lightning + Fractal, but with the turn delay any mass CC does it in.Going back with what he said. Agreed. There are enough mass CC cards to counter Ball Lightning + Fractal, just like with fractaled Rols.
I agree instead on "until you play a card".
Post by: Bleys295 on December 19, 2011, 02:36:24 pm
A.) does discarding cancel the effect as well?
B.) What about the buff to flooding?
Post by: Daguerreo on December 19, 2011, 02:39:53 pm
This new idea is actually wonderful. My questions areSmart questions.
A.) does discarding cancel the effect as well?
B.) What about the buff to flooding?
If someone can write the exact text of "last until play a card" I'll insert it to the poll.
Post by: PuppyChow on December 19, 2011, 10:35:27 pm
This would allow for multiple patiences to be played, as I honestly can't see it being useful if they don't stack.
Post by: Violenceisanart on December 24, 2011, 01:09:39 am
EDIT: just thought about removing the delay wouldn't exactly make it a shard of PATIENCE anymore would it? lol
Post by: teffy on December 24, 2011, 01:16:39 am
I remark this because it could let us reconsider our opinion about this card.
Post by: Tiko on December 24, 2011, 02:24:33 am
During the last few days I found a never used synergy for SoP. Have you ever used them on scorpions ? [...]Shards are 'Other' cards, and they have a reason to be such. All of these cards are somewhat universal, and could take a spot in almost any kind of deck, but many of them are considerably stronger when used with certain elements. Like all the other shards with their respective element, SoP also has an increased efficiency (at least in theory..) when played along with Water creatures, but its main purpose would be the attack increase, yes.
Sadly, you're still better off using Momentum/Blessing/Chaos Power for instatly applying their poison, as the 1 turn delay lets your opponent get rid of/ignore them easily (provided there's some CC or shields at hand). Also, unlike other buff cards, SoP does not provide additional HP for anything non-Water - rendering them totally helpless against such countermeasures.
Post by: nco on December 24, 2011, 05:26:41 pm
Post by: Cunning_Wish on January 03, 2012, 02:56:06 pm
SoP is useless it is difficult to have both 6more creature and flood and with SoP and wait for next turn
Post by: pulli23 on January 03, 2012, 09:12:36 pm
That would make the shard (for OTK etc) a very strategic thing I believe?
Post by: mono-rainbow on January 06, 2012, 06:58:33 am
Maybe make it so you can manually destroy it. Then for each turn it is alive you don't attack, but the creatures gain stats?I like this idea. :o :o :o
That would make the shard (for OTK etc) a very strategic thing I believe?
Post by: xdude on January 06, 2012, 08:07:53 am
Maybe make it so you can manually destroy it. Then for each turn it is alive you don't attack, but the creatures gain stats?The problem with the Shard is exactly the delay. You can't add more delay and hope to make it better.
That would make the shard (for OTK etc) a very strategic thing I believe?
IMO this card needs for the delay to disappear (following subsequent balancing of course.
Post by: hell7fire1 on January 20, 2012, 06:13:50 pm
"Delay your creatures for one(/two) turn,give all creatures +1|+0,Water creatures on field are now immaterial(/ for X turns)"
Aint that the perfect reward for "Patience"?
I mean you stop ALL YOUR DAMAGE
And in return,your creatures are immortal..........
Post by: pulli23 on January 20, 2012, 07:26:40 pm
No the gain of this card (with my suggestion) would not be to make a card where you build a deck around, but instead of a very strong "counter" card. As you can leave it in as long as you wish it counters many shields (with just 1 of them being active), especially the damage reduction shields like emerald shield. It also counters stalls like sundials/phase shields: simply leave this card while you won't do damage anyways to slowly grow your creatures till you can do dmg. It could be used against anti-matter based decks, prevent the opponent of healing on your antimattered critters.Maybe make it so you can manually destroy it. Then for each turn it is alive you don't attack, but the creatures gain stats?The problem with the Shard is exactly the delay. You can't add more delay and hope to make it better.
That would make the shard (for OTK etc) a very strategic thing I believe?
IMO this card needs for the delay to disappear (following subsequent balancing of course.
But most importantly, it counters SoSac, as this card doesn't have a limitation in "turns" you only have to get 1 of this shard, and play it. While the opponent has to wait for his 6/12 SoSacs.
The 1 turn delay (and 1 growth) isn't often usefull, so you need multiple turns to counter things. - Yet having 6 cards in your deck to "counter", gain substantional growth is limiting to deck building. If you could just add 2 of these shards and have a strong counter against a lot of meta, wouldn't that make the card useful?
Post by: Daguerreo on January 20, 2012, 09:57:52 pm
Post by: Powerfrog on January 21, 2012, 01:03:32 pm
This with fractal and SoP could be pretty impressive.
Post by: Acsabi44 on January 28, 2012, 01:33:55 pm
To counterbalance, make it 1/0; 1/1; 2/2.
(remarkably, it would finally enable a decent scorpion deck)
Post by: Daguerreo on January 28, 2012, 06:44:05 pm
Dunno if it was suggested, but make it a stackable permanent that delays when CoP, but affects creatures played after the SoP.Don't understand well. What does it means CoP?
Post by: markilleruk on February 01, 2012, 04:14:29 am
1. make SoP a perm which can be destroyed at any time manually by clicking it.
2. As long as you have a SoP in play no on creatures your side will attack.
3. Make the creature bonuses PER TURN, per shard. Each turn all creatures in play gain 1/0, water 2/2, water in flood 4/4.
4. Make the shard stack able.
5. Add a per creature and shard maintenance cost
Basically a mass growth + infinite self sundial until clicked.
So therefore if I play 2 SOP and have 5 water creatures in play after 1 turn they gain 4/4, 2 turns 8/8, 3 turns 12/12 each - but don't attack until I the SOP is destroyed.
A total gain of 60 damage for so little to quanta (10 water for sillas, 2 for SOPs, 3 turn wait) is clearly way OP however so I propose there should be a maintenance cost per creature
Perhaps 1 water/2 random quanta per SoP, per creature which gains a bonus, SoP is destroyed if maintenance cannot be met.
With this maintenance per creature, in the previous 5 creature example, I would pay 10 water per turn/20 random mana - a total of 30 mana after 3 turns or 60 random mana. This is fitting in with the current cost of growth (1 water.earth for 2 attack and hp), making SoP a mass growth card.
With a full field of creatures I would need 23 water or 46 random quanta per turn, but for a damage gain of 46/turn assuming they are water creatures.
Fill field, drop an SoP, wait 2 turns, drop SoP. OTK! (assuming I have the required quantum saved or generated per turn!)
I think this perfectly fits the patience theme as it would have to be a heavy control (read squid) deck to survive long enough to truely benefit. It makes it the ultimate counter of SoSac (delay as long as needed) and allows it to be more useful at the start of the match (fewer creatures, less maintenance)
Thoughts?
Post by: Absol on February 01, 2012, 06:23:37 am
Too complicated. Please elaborate.
Post by: Daguerreo on February 01, 2012, 09:46:11 am
Post by: markilleruk on February 02, 2012, 01:16:14 am
SoP as a permanent which delays all creatures on your side as long as it remains in play.
SoP buffs ALL creatures in play at the end of each turn.
SoP costs 1 water/turn(or 2 other) for each creature in play on your side.
SoP can be destroyed at any time during your turn by clicking it, this removes delay and maintenance cost but the buffs remain.
Super simple: Once played, activates every turn at the end of your turn: just as if you played a SoP every turn. maintenance per creature similar to flooding.
Got it?
Post by: mega plini on February 05, 2012, 03:46:02 pm
Post by: zhangvict on February 07, 2012, 04:09:28 pm
I do not think it should delay or buff the opoment't creatures though. SoP would eclipse sundial if that happened.
Post by: Powerfrog on February 07, 2012, 08:09:58 pm
I actually really like markilleruk's suggestion abour making SoP a permanent that indeifnitely delays your creatures, buffing them every turn untill you decide to destroy it (perm ability). It fits the whole 'patience' theme and also acts as a hard counter to the super OP SoSac. It creates a dilemma - should you lose a turn attacking, or continue to gain buffs? Opens up new uses for inundation, esp to weak creatures like octopus or malignant cell. Maintenance cost also good to prevent OP.Honestly, yes. This is perfect. The SoSa counter really sold it on me, because SoSa is currently pretty much counterless, aside from OHK and antimattering your own creatures. It makes sense for shards to counter other shards.
I do not think it should delay or buff the opoment't creatures though. SoP would eclipse sundial if that happened.
I kind of think SoG and SoP should switch elements though. Water already has purify and great stalling, making healing best for it. Life has a load of spammy creatures to work with SoP, get rid of the flooding part, which doesn't even make sense, and just make it +1/+1, +2/+2 for life creatures. Plus life shard countering death shard would make a lot more sense.
Post by: OdinVanguard on February 07, 2012, 09:16:40 pm
Earth is constant, it endures, it waits. Those on its surface may go about their activities, but the earth was there before and it will be there after.
It just seems to fit.
Make it +1/+1 for all creatures, with extra +1/+0 for burrowed and extra +0/+1 for earth creatures. I.e. burrowed earth get +2/+2 each round, burrowed non-earth get +2/+1, unburrowed earth get +1/+2. I just think it fits the theme perfectly, creatures burrow underground and wait patiently for just the right time to strike. Hidden in the safety of the earth. Tell me that doesn't fit earth's theme to the t!
The only other element that "patience" truly fits is time, but time already has a shard.
Idea for replacement water shard: Shard of tidal cleansing - removes all poison counter from a random creature each turn (but does nothing if chosen creature is not poisoned). Creatures in flooded squares are also healed to full. Each shard on the stack affects an additional creature. If your mark is water, your poison status is decreased by 1 or gives +1 purify status if unpoisoned (non-stacking for multiple shards). This effect is doubled if flooding is in play.
Note that this wont invalidate purify since it only decreases poisoning by 1 rather than wiping it clean.
Post by: mega plini on February 07, 2012, 11:26:45 pm
also i think the suggested alternative lacks usefulness. It's just another anti :death card. It does't realy stregthen any deck. Also it can't counter SoSac. The original version can do that.
Post by: OdinVanguard on February 08, 2012, 12:58:21 am
My other main point was to change it to make its bonus effect based around earth and burrowed creatures since patience seems to fit earth better than water.
Post by: OdinVanguard on February 08, 2012, 01:15:45 am
Shard of Frost bite - permanent: Frozen creatures take 1 damage per round but are immune to poison damage. :water creatures will not take damage. If your mark is :water non- :water creatures you control will not take damage and :water creatures you control will be healed instead of damaged.
ability: Ice age - freeze all creatures in play (yours included) for 1 round for each shard in the stack. The entire stack is destroyed after the effect ends.
Useful to all decks (pandemonium like mas cc). Good counter for SoSa. Fits the water (ice) theme.
Post by: mega plini on February 08, 2012, 01:28:33 am
Ah. Sorry, I was a bit unclear on SoP. I was assuming the shard would be made a permanent (as suggested previously) with the delay kept in effect as long as it was out and the ability to remove it when needed built in. This lets you slowly buff your creatures over time, but they don't get to attack until the round after you scrap the shard.I can understand your point about it being an earth card. But water needs a buff more so I'll stick to :water
My other main point was to change it to make its bonus effect based around earth and burrowed creatures since patience seems to fit earth better than water.
Post by: zhangvict on February 10, 2012, 05:32:51 pm
Post by: Odii Odsen on February 16, 2012, 12:27:43 am
edit: I love Poison, but it would be too much.
Post by: teffy on February 26, 2012, 02:53:57 pm
"creatures get +1|+0, water creatures 2|2, 4|4 if flooded. All your creatures are delayed for 1 turn and opponent´s creatures for the same total number of turns."
means if you have 23 creatures, your creatures are delayed for one turn, and some your opponent´s creatures more, some less. the number of the opponent´s "delay hourglasses" is 23.
This rewards players for being patient enough to use swarm cards like Pharaoh, Firefly Queen, Fractal, Mitosis.
Post by: kurathedog on February 26, 2012, 07:47:55 pm
Rather than delay, simply sundial style your creatures don't attack. They can still use abilities, so Squids and Chrysoras can still activate. Then again this would really only buff Water/death. Really, It needs a better way to work in general water decks.
What if it targeted? Hmmm...
Shard of Patience. 3.
Permanent
0: Delay target creature. It gets +1/+0, +2+2 if water, +4+4 if in flooding.
So it works both as offense and defense, with both having a drawback. You can use it to lock a creature, but if it is destroyed you have a fatty in your face. Or you can use it on your weak creatures, or to stop your dragons hitting into SoSa, or use it during sundial/phase shield.
Post by: eaglgenes101 on February 27, 2012, 04:12:53 am
Post by: aceben3 on March 31, 2012, 11:20:29 am
Post by: unknown89089 on April 21, 2012, 04:56:07 am
Post by: eaglgenes101 on April 21, 2012, 05:04:04 am
This card is still severely underpowered, Water has no good spammable creatures that get to the point where Flooding could be useful.That's not the point.
Post by: Selinea on April 21, 2012, 05:53:48 am
Post by: swishy on April 22, 2012, 11:45:34 am
Post by: Manatuner on April 27, 2012, 10:45:49 pm
Post by: Picheleiro on May 20, 2012, 09:03:16 am
Or maybe do it depending of the turns since played SoP. More cards or a more powerful one every turn you wait to click and remove. Can be +1 Pillar/Turn waited, for example. It´s a bet, because PC exist. It would be a buff and I think It would be funny, too.
Thoughts?
Post by: OldTrees on May 20, 2012, 01:57:31 pm
Maybe it´s a silly idea, but, like SoF, why not give a water card when removed? Like Purify.All benefits need to be paid with a cost.
Or maybe do it depending of the turns since played SoP. More cards or a more powerful one every turn you wait to click and remove. Can be +1 Pillar/Turn waited, for example. It´s a bet, because PC exist. It would be a buff and I think It would be funny, too.
Thoughts?
If we give a bigger benefit when it is destroyed then it will need a nerf to balance the buff.
There is no excuse to nerf the primary usage of SoP.
Post by: Totila on May 20, 2012, 05:06:45 pm
Maybe it´s a silly idea, but, like SoF, why not give a water card when removed? Like Purify.All benefits need to be paid with a cost.
Or maybe do it depending of the turns since played SoP. More cards or a more powerful one every turn you wait to click and remove. Can be +1 Pillar/Turn waited, for example. It´s a bet, because PC exist. It would be a buff and I think It would be funny, too.
Thoughts?
If we give a bigger benefit when it is destroyed then it will need a nerf to balance the buff.
There is no excuse to nerf the primary usage of SoP.
I agree with you, to me this shard is not UP, simply you need to find a good way to use it, as he said, if we increase the benefits then we will want to nerf the SoP 'cause someone will say that is OP
Post by: esran on May 20, 2012, 05:36:12 pm
Post by: OldTrees on May 20, 2012, 05:41:55 pm
this card definitely is UP in my opinion. a good start would be to make it give +!/+1 to regular creatures, and make it effect malignant cells in a flooded area. then i think it would be balanced.Cough. Fractal Sparks. Cough.
Malignant cells can reach flooding too cheaply.
Try to synergize before you jump to calling it OP. It recently got a buff.
Post by: ndclub on May 20, 2012, 06:00:19 pm
Maybe it´s a silly idea, but, like SoF, why not give a water card when removed? Like Purify.
Or maybe do it depending of the turns since played SoP. More cards or a more powerful one every turn you wait to click and remove. Can be +1 Pillar/Turn waited, for example. It´s a bet, because PC exist. It would be a buff and I think It would be funny, too.
Thoughts?
I could live with them getting something when deactivated but what you have suggested would give purify to all colors, something I cannot agree with.
Post by: tereret on November 20, 2015, 05:48:51 pm
Post by: Treldon on November 20, 2015, 08:10:18 pm
maybe removing the :water waste?
What waste?
Post by: andretimpa on November 20, 2015, 08:32:27 pm