*Author

Offline ZephyrPhantom

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7675
  • Country: aq
  • Reputation Power: 101
  • ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 6th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 4th Birthday CakeFlavour Text Revival Competition - WinnerSlice of Elements 3rd Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 2nd Birthday Cake
Re: Obsidian Dragon(upgraded black dragon) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=21421.msg1033231#msg1033231
« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2013, 05:25:47 am »
Every think why almost no one upgrades it?
As much as everyone likes bigger dragons, speed/quantum management is highly valued in ETG, even at the cost of an ATK | HP buff.  Bigger dragons tend to be neglected because there are more practical expensive upgrades at that point in time such as Miracle. (Instosis was an exception to this rule.)

Quote
Denying quanta is NOT useless in the least, two for a potentially damaging pillar, that ALSO drain there quanta is not bad.. And as for shields, steal, enough said. And 5 quanta is not expensive, and 5 hp is not low, that is only killed by 2 CC cards in the game, barring the repeatable ones of course.
LLLOOOLLL funny you say that, because devourers are USELESS lets see... vs lvl 4....lvl5....and practically Any Arena deck with Mark greater than 1... they suck, they cost 2 for No damage output, my deck just just fine without them, why doesn't anyone understand my point. think about it. Obsidian Dragons really are UP
Pests aren't good against any AI opponent with a head start. They're meant for PvP to deny players, where drain at any stage can hurt an average player much more than the typical FG.

Spoiler for List of Dragons, for Reference:

Obisidian Dragon is strictly worse than:
Sky Dragon by 1 | 1
Amethyst Dragon by 1 quanta
Jade Dragon by 3 Hp

...and that's about it. The rest of the dragons have variety of mix-and-match stats that would make them useful in different situations - if you're running a Water/Darkness duo and you know your opponent has lightning you would probably pick Obsidian Dragon over Arctic Dragon because +1 HP hinders your opponent's attempts to kill it. If you want to rush and are willing to sacrifice some efficiency for speed, Ivory Dragon is your best bet. If you want longterm power at the price of a higher cost, pick Light Dragon. The dragons that do stick slightly above the rest only do so slightly and are still confined to 1 specific element like the rest. The only 'slightly better' dragon that really has a conflict with Obsidian is Amethyst IMHO, since Life and Air tend to be more creature-focused/airborne-aggressive respectively, but its worth noting Entropy doesn't have a 'quantum weenie' like Light or Darkness does. (Said weenies also make great fractal fodder.)

So what does this dragon do? It's a beatstick, like every other dragon.  It's not at the top level of creatures, but its certainly not Massive Dragon-useless if you need a source of damage as a finisher in a :darkness stall. If you want to find more efficient Liquid Shadow targets, you're going to have to go out of element. It's slightly more expensive than a dragon above par, but said dragon doesn't have it's 'Pest' or 'Ray of Light' to back it up. +1 HP


As for the buffs:
reduce cost by 1 Darkness - Possible, but I don't think it's necessary due to Darkness's quantum acceleration and in-element uses (Liquid Shadow).
Attack +1 - Possible but then it starts to go into Life/Air's 'good offense' territory.
HP +1 - Already past the 'lightning' threshold. This does nothing.

I do not think a buff is needed.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2013, 05:27:55 am by Zblader »

Offline eaglgenes101

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1964
  • Country: us
  • Reputation Power: 29
  • eaglgenes101 is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.eaglgenes101 is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.eaglgenes101 is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.eaglgenes101 is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.eaglgenes101 is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.
  • The rising all-'rounder of Elements
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 6th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 5th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 4th Birthday Cake
Re: Obsidian Dragon(upgraded black dragon) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=21421.msg1033239#msg1033239
« Reply #25 on: January 18, 2013, 05:49:34 am »
Actually, +1 HP does something. It protects it against upped rage pot.
My 3 game-modification principles:
1. If it ain't broke, don't wreck it.
2. Simple fixes for simple problems.
3. Remember to fill in the holes.

Offline ZephyrPhantom

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7675
  • Country: aq
  • Reputation Power: 101
  • ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 6th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 4th Birthday CakeFlavour Text Revival Competition - WinnerSlice of Elements 3rd Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 2nd Birthday Cake
Re: Obsidian Dragon(upgraded black dragon) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=21421.msg1033244#msg1033244
« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2013, 06:10:26 am »
Actually, +1 HP does something. It protects it against upped rage pot.
Although Rage Potion is a very common CC card, I think the fact it only protects against upped Rage Pot minimizes this impact a bit.

Do any other cards have a clear distinction between 6 and 7 HP?


Offline Captain Scibra

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1345
  • Reputation Power: 20
  • Captain Scibra is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.Captain Scibra is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.Captain Scibra is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.Captain Scibra is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.
  • Do Domhantarraingt. Dúinn go léir.
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 7th Birthday Cake8th Trials - Master of GravitySlice of Elements 3rd Birthday Cake
Re: Obsidian Dragon(upgraded black dragon) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=21421.msg1033247#msg1033247
« Reply #27 on: January 18, 2013, 06:23:17 am »
Most dragons gain a cost of 2, +2 or +4 attack, and +-1 HP.  Some dragons gain an extra attack (Fire), gain an extra HP (Earth), and only 1 Atk with a lot of HP (Gravity).  Some dragons only gain a cost of 1: Entropy getting a -2 cost upgrade bonus, Water due to -1 HP, Gravity for unknown reasons (+1 Atk should be covered by the upgrade bonus, perhaps the extra HP is considered significant enough outside of typical cost theory), Light Dragon, due to +1 HP not being a significant change as with the other dragons.

Truthfully, I could go for a nerf for some of the dragons, particularly those that gain a -2 cost upgrade bonus (Entropy, Air), or a buff for all the rest.  Though, some get elemental bonuses, and it is unclear if the other elements have bonuses, though they are not shown in their creatures, but perhaps spells, permanents, and abilities.
Rule #1: The Captain is never wrong.  Rule #2: If the Captain is wrong, refer to Rule #1.
The New Card Theory Thread

Offline ddevans96

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8307
  • Country: us
  • Reputation Power: 113
  • ddevans96 is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ddevans96 is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ddevans96 is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ddevans96 is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ddevans96 is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ddevans96 is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ddevans96 is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ddevans96 is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ddevans96 is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ddevans96 is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ddevans96 is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ddevans96 is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ddevans96 is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ddevans96 is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ddevans96 is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.
  • now palafrost online
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 9th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 8th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeSilver Donor9th Trials - Master of WaterSlice of Elements 6th Birthday Cake8th Trials - Master of WaterSlice of Elements 4th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 3rd Birthday CakeWinner of the Harry Potter PvP House CupSlice of Elements 2nd Birthday Cake
Re: Obsidian Dragon(upgraded black dragon) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=21421.msg1033263#msg1033263
« Reply #28 on: January 18, 2013, 07:41:46 am »
If you're going to post a thread about game balance, you need to treat more experienced players with respect. In this case, Obsidian Dragon is not overpowered for several reasons stated in this thread, which you have only given weak counter-arguments and insults to.
discord / twitter: palafrost - 2x master of water - false god enthusiast
twitch: palafrost - speedrunner, ex-celeste, currently hades
avatar: makoto [persona 5] by asukabaka

Offline Absol

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2383
  • Country: id
  • Reputation Power: 35
  • Absol is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.Absol is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.Absol is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.Absol is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.Absol is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.Absol is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.Absol is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.
  • Consectetur Adipiscing Elit
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 4th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 3rd Birthday Cake
Re: Obsidian Dragon(upgraded black dragon) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=21421.msg1033266#msg1033266
« Reply #29 on: January 18, 2013, 07:49:16 am »
Actually, +1 HP does something. It protects it against upped rage pot.
Although Rage Potion is a very common CC card, I think the fact it only protects against upped Rage Pot minimizes this impact a bit.

Do any other cards have a clear distinction between 6 and 7 HP?
Bolt, all kinds.
OE.
Following Rage Elixir, Fire Nymph.
Following Fire Bolt, RoF.

Only those.
"Neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum, quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit."
"There is no one who loves pain itself, who seeks after it and wants to have it, simply because it is pain."

Offline omegareaper7

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1903
  • Reputation Power: 21
  • omegareaper7 is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.omegareaper7 is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.omegareaper7 is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.omegareaper7 is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.
Re: Obsidian Dragon(upgraded black dragon) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=21421.msg1033347#msg1033347
« Reply #30 on: January 18, 2013, 02:47:15 pm »
Everyone has said more then enough. And to add a bit more: you ever wonder why mono dark is so nice in pvp a majority of the time? Its because of devourers. Quanta denial hurts a lot. If you can't play cards, you can't win after all.
 However, that is not the point of the thread. There are several other dragons that would need a buff MUCH MUCH more then obsidian would. Ever look at gravity or earths dragons?
Youtube.com/user/thefatcatsofray New youtube channel for videos of sorts.
Each and every imagination of the human mind is a possibility in the physical reality. - William D. Catherine
"We will either find a way, or make one!" Hannibal

Offline eaglgenes101

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1964
  • Country: us
  • Reputation Power: 29
  • eaglgenes101 is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.eaglgenes101 is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.eaglgenes101 is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.eaglgenes101 is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.eaglgenes101 is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.
  • The rising all-'rounder of Elements
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 6th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 5th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 4th Birthday Cake
Re: Obsidian Dragon(upgraded black dragon) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=21421.msg1033530#msg1033530
« Reply #31 on: January 18, 2013, 11:05:33 pm »
^Please explain to me kindly why vampires are used in monodarks more than dragons.
My 3 game-modification principles:
1. If it ain't broke, don't wreck it.
2. Simple fixes for simple problems.
3. Remember to fill in the holes.

 

blarg: