[Official] Procrastination | Turtle Shield

[Jenkar]

I would commentate but i have Holli to watch.

But seriously. Buff to stop weapons too would make it even nearer dusk, which is gewd.

[furballdn]

I never understood why it wasn't affecting weapons. I obviously voted for that.

Making it delay weapons would make it better than dusk. On average, besides weapons, dusk and turtle block the same amount of damage. Turtle is better because it stops creatures from using their skills as well. An EE that misses 50% of the time and can still snipe is better than an EE that can only be used every other turn.

[Cheesy111]

I never understood why it wasn't affecting weapons. I obviously voted for that.

Making it delay weapons would make it better than dusk. On average, besides weapons, dusk and turtle block the same amount of damage. Turtle is better because it stops creatures from using their skills as well. An EE that misses 50% of the time and can still snipe is better than an EE that can only be used every other turn.

Dusk is better when you're taking damage that could kill you (RNG haxx).
Dusk takes away 50% of creature damage right away, whereas Procrastination takes 2 turns to realize its effect on a creature.

Procrastination delaying skills + the new buff of delaying weapons is meant to compensate for these issues, particularly the second one.  On odd-numbered turns for any given creature attacking into Procrastination, that creature will on average have dealt more damage than one attacking into a Dusk Mantle.

[ARTHANASIOS]

 Still, delaying is much better than blocking. About the high cost (6 ) is not that high, especially if upped (4 ). Dim Shields cost 6 and can be played early in the game, same goes with Turtle & Dusk. I don't find 6 a really high cost.

 Let's see why delay > blocking. Nymph Decks, Pharaoh-Scarab decks, Firefly-Queen decks, Arctic Octupus decks, Otyugh decks, Mind Flayer decks, decks with growers and other types of decks which rely on active abilities are countered really hard by Turtle (and there are plenty of these decks around). On the other hand, vanilla creature decks are countered better than Dusk but Turtle can also block them.  Because of the above, I think Turtle shouldn't block weapons. It would become broken for sure.

[Cheesy111]

Still, delaying is much better than blocking. About the high cost (6 ) is not that high, especially if upped (4 ). Dim Shields cost 6 and can be played early in the game, same goes with Turtle & Dusk. I don't find 6 a really high cost.

 Let's see why delay > blocking. Nymph Decks, Pharaoh-Scarab decks, Firefly-Queen decks, Arctic Octupus decks, Otyugh decks, Mind Flayer decks, decks with growers and other types of decks which rely on active abilities are countered really hard by Turtle (and there are plenty of these decks around). On the other hand, vanilla creature decks are countered better than Dusk but Turtle can also block them.  Because of the above, I think Turtle shouldn't block weapons. It would become broken for sure.

Turtle is not a hard counter to those decks.  Hard counter means hard counter - dims hard counter monolife rush, firestall hard counters a light/aether stall, Immorush hard counters discake.  Turtle is a soft counter to those decks.  And yet it's still much, much worse than Dusk because those decks are so rare and uncompetitive in an unrestricted environment, even if we disregard the huge warping of the metagame caused by sofo, that the benefit from countering them is close to nil. 

I have never once seen a deck based around Mind Flayers.  Sure, you can put one or two in a grabbow, but most of the time either crawlers, chrysaora or lobo is a better fit than flayers.  FFQ decks are far too slow to deal with pretty much anything, and require enough quanta to be extremely vulnerable to denial.  Otyugh isn't affected by Turtle Shield until after it's eaten something, and what competitive Oty decks are there anyways?  Monowater NQ has troubles with turtle shield, and that's a fair assessment, but by the time Turtle is out (2nd-3rd turn if lucky) monowater has already gotten rolling with enough nymphs to continue the swelling of the horde, and that's beside the point that most time decks already counter nymph decks very well (RT, Eternity in rushes and Sundial/off element stalling in stalls) and so the benefit from countering monowater NQ is reduced.  SoP squid decks are obviously not highly affected by procrast.  Pharoah/SoR decks also exist to an extent, and here I completely agree with you that procrast significantly slows them down and may even lead to a crucial win.  But Pharoah/SoR does not make up nearly enough of the metagame to justify Procrast costing 6 and not blocking weapons.

TL;DR: Decks significantly affected by Procrast are too few and far between for it to stay UP.

[Fosius]

Procrastination | Turtle Shield is better early in the game game.
Dusk Mantle | Improved Dusk is better later in the game.

The problem comes with their cost, 6 , which is too costly to be gotten out effectively in first turn. Therefore late game shield wins in effectiveness.

Fantastic point.  Also, you can play dusk just as early as procrastination, and its not any worse early game.

grow monsters need to grow as fast as possible, slowing them by 50% is a lot better then dodging their attacks half the time

To me, it seems fine, no buff needed.

[HiresDaedalus]

Compared to Dusk Mantle, Procrastination/Turtle shield seems underpowered.  It's certain blocking, sure, so it works better with Sundial and the like.  But if there are an odd number of turns after Procrast is put down, on average it is worse than Dusk.  If your opponent has weapons, on average Procrast is worse than Dusk (since Dusk can block weapons and Procrast can't).  In regards to this, I believe that Procrast should be buffed to be cheaper or to block weapons (preferably the latter).

EDIT: Procrast/Turtle and Eternity/RT also have anti-synergy.  This hurts Procrast even more (RTing a delayed creature makes it attack one more time than it otherwise would).

i think it's the same as dusk mantle but more certain, think about it dusk mantle blocks 50% of the time is basically 1 in every 2 turns same procrastination, but i think it should delay the weapon too

[kimham8a]

Voted delay weapons.
That said, I think shield gets its low plays due to the unpopularity of the mono deck, not its UPness. shield would get equal usage if mono weren't so popular.

[aqwsz0]

I find this card good, because must users dont use time and if they do, they have something useful.

[UndeadSpider1990]

I voted it's fine as it is.

My reason has been pointed out enough by others: Dusk may be better at preventing damage (apparently in my experience, far more than 50% effective) but the delay effect of Procrastination can be cery useful (enough to hath a graboid and bury it before he gets Oty eaten.)