[Official] Pandemonium | Pandemonium

[Calindu]

Panda is fine. It is far from being underused..

I am quite active in the deck section and I almost never see decks that use panda. Right now it's underpowered.

And we all know how representative of the pvp metagame the deck section is

lol right, wrong argument. I play a lot in PVP and Arena too, and still think it's UP 

Then play competitive PvP, this card is not UP.

[Chapuz]

I assume that only a little part of the players play competitive PVP.
It's a little buff to add antimatter at a low rate, maybe like PU, so casual players can say "hey, that sh!t can antimatter, let's try it!"

[Cheesy111]

I assume that only a little part of the players play competitive PVP.
It's a little buff to add antimatter at a low rate, maybe like PU, so casual players can say "hey, that sh!t can antimatter, let's try it!"

We balance around competitive PvP.  It would be ridiculous to base buffs and nerfs off of schrodinger's cat/bone wall decks, or 60-card monos.  It's even more silly to say that we should buff an already powerful card so that some people would try it.

[Sinolai]

Shockwave could also be added.
Would it be too powerful if antimatter was added to upgraded version only? changes for it are still quite small and it would give a nice extra for pandemonium.

[Annele]

We balance around competitive PvP.

This I completely disagree with. Only a small portion of players play competitive, though it is fun, I'm pretty sure it is not the main reason Zanz created this game. I believe we should balance cards based on what is already in the game, and considered to be balanced.

I believe pandemonium is fine as it is, maybe a little underused, but no more than other cards. More abilities will not do any harm either though, imho.

Shockwave could also be added.
Would it be too powerful if antimatter was added to upgraded version only? changes for it are still quite small and it would give a nice extra for pandemonium.

Shockwave is already added. I was merely adding one Chapuz had missed. On the other idea, I believe it would be simpler to have both pandes have the same abilities.

[Jenkar]

We balance around competitive PvP.

This I completely disagree with. Only a small portion of players play competitive, though it is fun, I'm pretty sure it is not the main reason Zanz created this game. I believe we should balance cards based on what is already in the game, and considered to be balanced.

The other two possible balance points are :
1) PvE
2) Non-competitive PvP.

Non competitive pvp is full of decks that are widely considered bad. The fact is that you can enter with a monodeath and pawn a lot of people. Unupped. (monodeath is a relatively easy to counter deck). Hence, if we took that as a basis, perfectly balanced decks would have to be nerfed to be beatable by scrap decks. Not my cup of tea.

As for ai, there are several problems. First, AI's intelligence is, and will always will be, under a humans. This leads to ai's weaknesses being exploitable, and therefore some decks that are weak vs players are good vs ai (take instosis, balanced in pvp, but op vs AI).  secondly, AI has several level. If we took AI0 as a balance, our decks would be up vs AI5. And if we took AI3 as a blanace, they'd be op vs AI0.

Competitive pvp is imo the way to go for balance.

[Calindu]

We balance around competitive PvP.

This I completely disagree with. Only a small portion of players play competitive, though it is fun, I'm pretty sure it is not the main reason Zanz created this game. I believe we should balance cards based on what is already in the game, and considered to be balanced.

I believe pandemonium is fine as it is, maybe a little underused, but no more than other cards. More abilities will not do any harm either though, imho.

If we balance around non-competitive PvP then both Graveyard and Cat will be considered OP, while cards like nova will be considered balanced or even UP.

[Chapuz]

We balance around competitive PvP.

This I completely disagree with. Only a small portion of players play competitive, though it is fun, I'm pretty sure it is not the main reason Zanz created this game. I believe we should balance cards based on what is already in the game, and considered to be balanced.

I believe pandemonium is fine as it is, maybe a little underused, but no more than other cards. More abilities will not do any harm either though, imho.

If we balance around non-competitive PvP then both Graveyard and Cat will be considered OP, while cards like nova will be considered balanced or even UP.

Nova is balanced, it's not OP for being a strategical card that lets you have multiple quanta without messing with N different pilars/pendulums. [/off topic]

[EvaRia]

While personally I disagree with adding alchemies to the spell list (They should be a bit more reserved IMO), Pandemonium really does need to be updated with new effects when they come out, like mutation.

I don't think it's really been updated since I started playing...

Then again, maybe there hasn't been many new effects added?

[Zergva]

I don't think adding Antimatter is a good idea, but in my opinion it's need a bit buff.

If that's need an Antimatter, the Chaos seed need too. And after that, nobody will use Antimatter (becomes UP), because "Why I pay 8 for this, if I be able to use for 3 and a little risk." Why little? If somebody uses Antimatter, have quanta to use Pandemonium twice. And I didn't seen any unburrowed/material field, what can survive an attack like this. Because in 20-80%(matters on the creature) you always have a good option take that creature out of the field. And it's raisen and doubled...  I don't think, that's the best way to buff this card.

Why this card is unused? In my opinion (that's not mean, I'm right, because I'm newbie ):

I, Because the upped is more weaker than the other cards updated edition. Rain of fire, Plague, Skull buckler. They are not as effective, like the upped Pandemonium (and I think, can't race with the unupped), but they are more reliable. And I don't want everytime, to kill a 20 creature table, only 1-3 of them. It's often kills the half of the creature (so 1 or maybe 2). And for 5, I think, that a very high price for one upgrade card (Siphon life,Fire lance...).

II, The upped part are weaker than the unupped in some ways. There are a lot of deck, what's often rely on to deal damage his own creature too (or just doesn't give a shhhh.....). Woodoo dolls, burrowed/imma creatures or controlls with empty field... And these decks doesn't ever want to upgrade this (pay more to less efficiency), if it's needed, they change the card for an other. Only some kind of Rainbow controll and mono full upgraded entrophy deck not (if it's doesn't use upped Antimatter instead of that). But it's lucky based and cost so much (that's why the Chaos seed is not unused, because it's very cheap in any view, but I hate the upped part of that, because that's not the same card in my eyes).

III, What if the infection (and only the infection) affects on imma creatures too? Because noboydy are safe from the Chaos I know, it can make troubles in the programming of that card (I think the Panda just skips the imma creatures, cos this is the logical). Or the infection changes to Alfatoxin (of course, WITHOUT Malignant cells)? Or the Lobotomize dealt 1 damage too? I thought about to decrease the upped by one, but it's could be too much, and can becomes OP in a very fast way.

I think, this card is not have to be much stronger, than the older one, but needs a bit help.

[Shantu]

While personally I disagree with adding alchemies to the spell list (They should be a bit more reserved IMO), Pandemonium really does need to be updated with new effects when they come out, like mutation.

I don't think it's really been updated since I started playing...

Then again, maybe there hasn't been many new effects added?

While no new effects have been added to Pandemonium since its release, there has been at least one addition to Chaos Seed: the Shockwave effect. Not sure about others, it's been a while.

[dylanslagle]

yeah i agree. this would be a good buff. thx for the post