[Official] Nightmare | Nightmare

[ZephyrPhantom]

My first instinct was to change it from even card economy to gaining a card on the opponent, by adding a draw a card option.  But then I thought letting you draw another card would be too strong.  One the one hand, crazy speedy decks that would use both this and Precogs.  On the other hand, adjusting the casting cost to prevent that, it becomes nigh unplayable for its intended purpose.

How about if it also drained random quanta equal to the creature's casting cost?  I don't think this would be a strong buff (although I could be proved wrong!), it would assist the Darkness gameplan of temporarily stalling the opponent, and would give the card a reason for existence beyond countering Fractal.

It is already useful in a lockdown.  I think the card is perfectly fine, it does what it needs to do, and if you Nightmare the wrong creature vs. a rainbow, you pay for it.  You can also nightmare a photon while the opponent has Neurotoxin to psychologically pressure them into "Do I need the creature, or is less poison more worth it?".

[RootRanger]

It is already useful in a lockdown.  I think the card is perfectly fine, it does what it needs to do, and if you Nightmare the wrong creature vs. a rainbow, you pay for it.  You can also nightmare a photon while the opponent has Neurotoxin to psychologically pressure them into "Do I need the creature, or is less poison more worth it?".

Useful in a lockdown? It uses 1 draw and 2 quantum to slow them down by 1 draw. Seems more wasteful than useful.
Psychological pressure? The opponent can simply pick the best move with no pressure at all. It is almost never difficult to see which play is more valuable (usually not playing the photon until it can win the game for you).

[ZephyrPhantom]

Useful in a lockdown? It uses 1 draw and 2 quantum to slow them down by 1 draw. Seems more wasteful than useful.
Psychological pressure? The opponent can simply pick the best move with no pressure at all. It is almost never difficult to see which play is more valuable (usually not playing the photon until it can win the game for you).

It might psych a newbie a bit, but that's not my main point.  Ever heard of reverse time in a lockdown?  A player could keep reversing the played creature with Eternity to lock his opponent's draw down, unless you want to discard.  If the need for a buff is really that necessary, the card should be reduced to 1  / 1  .

[RootRanger]

It might psych a newbie a bit, but that's not my main point.  Ever heard of reverse time in a lockdown?  A player could keep reversing the played creature with Eternity to lock his opponent's draw down, unless you want to discard.  If the need for a buff is really that necessary, the card should be reduced to 1  / 1  .

Nightmare is not nearly as reliable as an eternity because it is a one-use spell. Nightmare also causes you to lose quantum, but your opponent does not lose quantum.
Outside of rare cases (fractal, hourglasses), nightmare hurts you more than the opponent.

Drawing nightmare = Not drawing another card
Drawing nightmare + 2 Quantum --> Not drawing a card
Not drawing another card + 2 Quantum --> Not drawing a card

The cost of Not drawing another card + 2 Quantum > Not drawing a card.
Which means nightmare's draw prevention hurts you more than it hurts the opponent.
Thus, nightmare's draw prevention effect is never worth the cost of 1 card and 2 quantum.
Which means nightmare's only useful effect is preventing fractal and hourglasses.

[MaddAddams]

It might psych a newbie a bit, but that's not my main point.  Ever heard of reverse time in a lockdown?  A player could keep reversing the played creature with Eternity to lock his opponent's draw down, unless you want to discard.  If the need for a buff is really that necessary, the card should be reduced to 1  / 1  .

I guess I'm just not sure how Nightmare particularly aids that lockdown.  If you're Nightmare-ing a creature of your own to give him to use in that loop, then it seems reasonable enough a good opponent would just save up to drop a bunch at once.  If you're already looping a creature of his, then what does the Nightmare really do beyond the single draw denial?  The net card cost is still even because you had to draw your Nightmare, and while it's a strong loop, I don't see how it's more powerful than if Nightmare hadn't been played.

In terms of using Nightmare in partnership with Neurotoxin, that's almost exclusively used to make the AI do things not in its best interest, and not a PvP tactic.

The one accessory purpose I currently use Nightmare for is when I'm playing Half-bloods, because their draw rate is related to their handsize.  I was trying to come up with a minimal buff that would be in theme, similar in line with the Purify buff.  I'm not a fan of making cards cost random quanta.  I feel it goes counter to the purpose of different elements with different sets of cards.

[EvaRia]

ZBlader, ever heard of discarding?

[ZephyrPhantom]

ZBlader, ever heard of discarding?

Uhh...hey, that's in my post!

Like I said, a good buff would be to make this 1  | 1 . But from what else I have seen, I think I also like the idea of draw a card/ gain quanta for nightmare'd creatures cost.

[RootRanger]

ZBlader, ever heard of discarding?

Like I said, a good buff would be to make this 1  | 1 . But from what else I have seen, I think I also like the idea of draw a card/ gain quanta for nightmare'd creatures cost.

But it is still not worth 1 quanta for the current nightmare effect (this has been explained many times by me and others so I won't bother explaining again).

The second buff is better, but there would have to be an increased cost for drawing a card. My suggestion is 4|3 and draw a card. This gives a one-draw advantage at the cost of 4|3. Seems fair if you think about the goldem/electrum hourglass.

[EvaRia]

ZBlader, ever heard of discarding?

Uhh...hey, that's in my post!

Like I said, a good buff would be to make this 1  | 1 . But from what else I have seen, I think I also like the idea of draw a card/ gain quanta for nightmare'd creatures cost.

I mean, there's absolutely no reason not to discard a creature that you are never going to be able to play. Once the discard happens, you can draw as normal.

I don't get what benefit you are trying to say it achieves.

[zorzz]

Different idea:

"Fill your opponent's hand with copies of the target creature. Then add 8-N copies of that creature to the top of your opponent's deck. N = the number of copies added to your opponents hand."

Sounds too good. Hypothetical perfect draw of hypothetical deck

2xNova(2 2  ) + 2xSupernova(2 6  ))  + creature + Nightmare will lock opponent from playing new cards for 7 turns. And that's even before opponent will be able to make their first turn.

Really such situation is unlikely to happen, but anyway adding N cards on top of the deck works will hurt much more than Dimension shields:
two chained dimensional shields last 6 turns.
two chained "8-N to top" Nightmares  - more than ten. Chaining 6 spells is easy. Discarding 16 cards is not. Especially for non decks

[Ignion]

I think there's no arguement that this card is not very useful and does not fare well against other cards at the moment.

However, I don't necessarily think Nightmare itself needs to be buffed.

Instead, we should create a card or two that can make up a good combo with Nightmare.

Below are some examples/ideas:

- Change Malignant Cell card to a high cost card (like 10 poison elements). Malignant Cell is not a card that we can obtain/use, so I think it makes sense to do this. That way, when you Nightmare with Malignant Cell, your opponent is stuck with costly useless cards for a long time.

- Create a new card that activates its effect when it is sent into your opponent's hand. Something like, "Deck Eater" > As long as this card remains in hand, it removes one card from your deck each turn. I know this would be OP, so maybe we can make its cost 1 of any elements so that opponent can get rid of it right away. Another idea is something like "Parasite" > While this card is in hand, it takes away 2LP each turn.

Changes like these would make this game much more fun, I think.

Ignion

[LongDono]

Maybe make it add 1 darkness quanta for every card added to your opponets hand with nightmare's other effect?