[Official] Nightmare | Nightmare

[Ryli]

Torb, as you siad this card is not that much in use. And it will be the same when it gets buffed. So why don't we just leave as it is  ?

It would recieve more use if we go with the relic suggestion, because then it works better against rainbow/mindgate/cremation/same element matches.

[lukce]

Still, a relic costs 1 random quanta. That would be really easy to clear your nightmare'd hand.

[TheonlyrealBeef]

Adding relics to in your opponent's hand? Yes!

I imagine that AI would waste all its quanta though..

Nah, we've seen Relic farms, and even the ai isn't that stupid

Torb, as you siad this card is not that much in use. And it will be the same when it gets buffed. So why don't we just leave as it is  ?

I might use this card when it gets buffed, especially in war, I can remember situations in which adding relics could've been the difference between adding nightmare or not.

Aether used Fractal Devourers against Darkness (meanies) so we couln't Nightmare our own creatures or they could simply use them
When adding relics this problem is fixed, and Darkness has a counter against any Fractal deck

And relics can't leave your hand unless you discard them: after you play them they remain in your hand.

[smuglapse]

Still, a relic costs 1 random quanta. That would be really easy to clear your nightmare'd hand.

They don't go away though.  They just use up one quantum if you play them and they remain in your hand.  Only way to get rid of them is discard.  It would definitely hurt Fractal and Hourglass decks more, so good idea!

[lukce]

And relics can't leave your hand unless you discard them: after you play them they remain in your hand.

Oh...I didn't know this. Then, BUFF THIS CARD 

[MXXE]

Im going to present my point with a little offtopic story that we had in math:

There is a sheep and there are two lions. The rules are: If a lion eats the sheep he will sleep from this heavy meal and be attackable. And eatable by other lions. You could say he turns into a sheep himself when he eats the sheep. The lions are hungry but they are even more intelligent and like to survive, than they are hungry.
What will happen? If Lion 1 eats the sheep he gets eaten by Lion 2. Since he is more intelligent than hungry, he doesn't eat the sheep. The same is true for Lion 2. Result: The little cute sheep continiues eating grass, undisturbed. YAAY. You can count this up to every number you want (say 100 lions) as long as the number is even.


What I don't like about Nightmare is that it is a hard counter to Fractal.
Take purify: For a long time it did ONLY remove poison. That was even before scorpions were released (That means the ONLY poison cards were: "Poison", "Crysaora" and "Puffer fish" (upped). If you ran into a poison deck: Yaay lucky you, you destroy him by destroying 10 poison counters and he doesn't have any strong attackers. If you did NOT run into a poison deck: Purify is a dead card. An alternative ice bolt can kill chrysaoras, while staying flexible.
Then, purify was buffed and it got that +1 healing counter effect. It is still a counter because: Poison deck, you have 10 poison counters: remove "11" poison counters. Non-poison deck, you have 0 poison counters: remove "1" counter. 10 >> 1: still a counter, a little softened.

Now we have nightmare: Agains Fractal deck: WIN, Non-fractal (much more often case): Dead card. (For me it is dead because "enemy skip one draw while you drew the useless nightmare for  " << "1 counter of unremovable, unskippable, unjumpable healing for  ")
What happens: You can raise the chance to win against fractal deck significantly but decrease the chances to all other decks by a little. Or you decide to remove the nightmare, raising your chances and skipping against-fractal-matches which saves you some time.
This is true for all other players and thus nobody uses nightmare. Result: The little cute fractal-deck continiues farming gold, undisturbed. NOT SO "YAAY"

[pikachufan2164]

Different idea:

"Fill your opponent's hand with copies of the target creature. Then add 8-N copies of that creature to the top of your opponent's deck. N = the number of copies added to your opponents hand."

It would also warrant a cost increase to 5 or 6 .

That should solve the problem of it being useless against non-Fractal decks.

[ddevans96]

Or worded more simply:

'Place 8 copies of the target creature in your opponent's hand. If their hand becomes full add the remaining copies to the top of their deck instead.'

That does sound like a good buff though.

[11drew511]

Nightmare is not useless.  Use it in a deck that has dune scorpions to cause neurotoxin, use it on a photon while you have a shield out, and the person either has a hand filled with a useless card or a lot more neurotoxin.

[Krahhl]

Doesn't matter if their hand is filled. The final effect is still that they only lose one card draw. Any cards they don't need would be empty spaces anyway, and they can just discard if their hand is full. I guess it helps if they use hourglasses along with what you said with neurotoxin, but that seems even more situational than countering fractal since both you and your opponent need to use a certain strategy.

[MadBoat]

yeah needs a buff. it's very johnny, and I want to encourage weird combos, so...

changing the cost to 1 dark/1 any-color(upped), like animate weapon, would open the door to slick combos in future.

[MaddAddams]

My first instinct was to change it from even card economy to gaining a card on the opponent, by adding a draw a card option.  But then I thought letting you draw another card would be too strong.  One the one hand, crazy speedy decks that would use both this and Precogs.  On the other hand, adjusting the casting cost to prevent that, it becomes nigh unplayable for its intended purpose.

How about if it also drained random quanta equal to the creature's casting cost?  I don't think this would be a strong buff (although I could be proved wrong!), it would assist the Darkness gameplan of temporarily stalling the opponent, and would give the card a reason for existence beyond countering Fractal.