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Offline OldTrees

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Re: Mitosis | Mitosis https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=30733.msg1014808#msg1014808
« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2012, 05:55:02 pm »
Please address these 2 points:
1)
Weapons receive a discount to their casting cost because they have to pass through the weapon slot.

2)
Furthermore animated weapon synergies are balanced with 1 animate weapon per animated weapon in mind.



However this would solve the problem of mitosis other creatures in the future.
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Offline eaglgenes101

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Re: Mitosis | Mitosis https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=30733.msg1014857#msg1014857
« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2012, 10:28:33 pm »
Please address these 2 points:
1)
Weapons receive a discount to their casting cost because they have to pass through the weapon slot.

2)
Furthermore animated weapon synergies are balanced with 1 animate weapon per animated weapon in mind.



However this would solve the problem of mitosis other creatures in the future.
Comparison to adrenastaves.
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Offline kimham8a

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Re: Mitosis | Mitosis https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=30733.msg1014864#msg1014864
« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2012, 10:41:44 pm »
Is it just me, or does every card seem to need a buff these days after the new shards came out?
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Offline furballdn

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Re: Mitosis | Mitosis https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=30733.msg1014872#msg1014872
« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2012, 10:54:45 pm »
Is it just me, or does every card seem to need a buff these days after the new shards came out?
If that is the case, that strongly implies that the shards are overbalanced and are more powerful than they should be.

Offline kimham8a

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Re: Mitosis | Mitosis https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=30733.msg1014879#msg1014879
« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2012, 11:05:22 pm »
Is it just me, or does every card seem to need a buff these days after the new shards came out?
If that is the case, that strongly implies that the shards are overbalanced and are more powerful than they should be.
Overbalanced? Did you mean overpowered?
And if you meant overpowered, yes, I think we should think of ways to nerf those cards rather than buff every other card in the game. (as I feel we're trying to do slowly but steadily)
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Re: Mitosis | Mitosis https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=30733.msg1014887#msg1014887
« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2012, 11:17:16 pm »
Is it just me, or does every card seem to need a buff these days after the new shards came out?
If that is the case, that strongly implies that the shards are overbalanced and are more powerful than they should be.
Overbalanced? Did you mean overpowered?
And if you meant overpowered, yes, I think we should think of ways to nerf those cards rather than buff every other card in the game. (as I feel we're trying to do slowly but steadily)
Regarding Shards and how they compare to other cards:
I think the ideas of power creep and psychological standard sum this up the best, as seen in the Top Comment on MTG's Baneslayer Angel. The idea is that if you keep releasing more powerful cards for the next generation, you come to accept these new powerful cards at the standard (Which leads in to powercreep, where better cards replace old ones.) Consequently we look on what might be 'practical' cards as obsoleted by the broken ones that draw everyone's attention. (Thought not strictly better due to their 'instant' speed Explosion and Steal tend to be used less than SoFo since SoFo can go 1-for-3 (1-for-4 if you're counting the Black Hole) in terms of cards, while Explosion and Steal are 1-for-1 and 1-for-2 respectively..)

Ontopic:
IMHO Mitosis does not need a buff in any form : if you compare Adrenaline, Mitosis has the ability to repeatedly copy a creature while Adrenaline produces no additional copies. Since token cards don't exist in ETG, you're technically getting card advantage out of a successful Mitosis whereas an Adrenaline'd creature will be a sitting duck for CC. (This is most notable with Reverse Time : against Mitosis, you still have another creature on the field so you at least have 1 card to 'pay back' for the Mitosis used. Against Adrenaline, you've waste two cards.) Adrenaline should have a 1 :life advantage to even this possible anti-CC advantage out.

Offline kimham8a

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Re: Mitosis | Mitosis https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=30733.msg1014891#msg1014891
« Reply #30 on: November 11, 2012, 11:24:32 pm »
Power creep happens because MTG card makers are just making money off of people. They need to make stronger cards each generation so people have to buy them to stay in competetive play. (no disrespect to them, I like the game) plus MTG can't nerf cards.
ETG, on the other hand CAN nerf cards and doesn't really make money by releasing new cards. (unless you count donations, but I don't think zanz wants to make lots of money off of this). Zanz could just release UP cards each patch and we'd have a power drop if the old cards got nerfed along with them.
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Re: Mitosis | Mitosis https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=30733.msg1014992#msg1014992
« Reply #31 on: November 12, 2012, 05:40:21 am »
Power creep happens because MTG card makers are just making money off of people. They need to make stronger cards each generation so people have to buy them to stay in competetive play. (no disrespect to them, I like the game) plus MTG can't nerf cards.
ETG, on the other hand CAN nerf cards and doesn't really make money by releasing new cards. (unless you count donations, but I don't think zanz wants to make lots of money off of this). Zanz could just release UP cards each patch and we'd have a power drop if the old cards got nerfed along with them.

Natural powercreep in EtG:
Zanz creates cards. We examine the cards and make good decks out of them. Some cards are not included because they are too weak. Zanz examines the power level (based on what is used) and tries to make more cards. Zanz makes cards with some weaker and some stronger than the power level. We examine the cards and make good decks out of them. We abandon some old card for the new cards that are stronger than the old power level. This  raises the power level. Changing cards can affect/reverse this but this is the natural powercreep.
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Offline kimham8a

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Re: Mitosis | Mitosis https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=30733.msg1015242#msg1015242
« Reply #32 on: November 13, 2012, 01:05:44 am »
Power creep happens because MTG card makers are just making money off of people. They need to make stronger cards each generation so people have to buy them to stay in competetive play. (no disrespect to them, I like the game) plus MTG can't nerf cards.
ETG, on the other hand CAN nerf cards and doesn't really make money by releasing new cards. (unless you count donations, but I don't think zanz wants to make lots of money off of this). Zanz could just release UP cards each patch and we'd have a power drop if the old cards got nerfed along with them.

Natural powercreep in EtG:
Zanz creates cards. We examine the cards and make good decks out of them. Some cards are not included because they are too weak. Zanz examines the power level (based on what is used) and tries to make more cards. Zanz makes cards with some weaker and some stronger than the power level. We examine the cards and make good decks out of them. We abandon some old card for the new cards that are stronger than the old power level. This  raises the power level. Changing cards can affect/reverse this but this is the natural powercreep.
So it's because zanz doesn't want to nerf OP new cards, and would rather have to buff the weaker cards eventually (or keep them UP)?
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Re: Mitosis | Mitosis https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=30733.msg1015252#msg1015252
« Reply #33 on: November 13, 2012, 01:30:18 am »
Power creep happens because MTG card makers are just making money off of people. They need to make stronger cards each generation so people have to buy them to stay in competetive play. (no disrespect to them, I like the game) plus MTG can't nerf cards.
ETG, on the other hand CAN nerf cards and doesn't really make money by releasing new cards. (unless you count donations, but I don't think zanz wants to make lots of money off of this). Zanz could just release UP cards each patch and we'd have a power drop if the old cards got nerfed along with them.

Natural powercreep in EtG:
Zanz creates cards. We examine the cards and make good decks out of them. Some cards are not included because they are too weak. Zanz examines the power level (based on what is used) and tries to make more cards. Zanz makes cards with some weaker and some stronger than the power level. We examine the cards and make good decks out of them. We abandon some old card for the new cards that are stronger than the old power level. This  raises the power level. Changing cards can affect/reverse this but this is the natural powercreep.
So it's because zanz doesn't want to nerf OP new cards, and would rather have to buff the weaker cards eventually (or keep them UP)?
That was neither stated nor implied. I merely stated that if Zanz does nothing but add cards then the natural powercreep would surface. Zanz can artificially reverse this powercreep. However if he does not then the natural powercreep will happen.
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Offline kimham8a

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Re: Mitosis | Mitosis https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=30733.msg1015284#msg1015284
« Reply #34 on: November 13, 2012, 03:49:32 am »
Power creep happens because MTG card makers are just making money off of people. They need to make stronger cards each generation so people have to buy them to stay in competetive play. (no disrespect to them, I like the game) plus MTG can't nerf cards.
ETG, on the other hand CAN nerf cards and doesn't really make money by releasing new cards. (unless you count donations, but I don't think zanz wants to make lots of money off of this). Zanz could just release UP cards each patch and we'd have a power drop if the old cards got nerfed along with them.

Natural powercreep in EtG:
Zanz creates cards. We examine the cards and make good decks out of them. Some cards are not included because they are too weak. Zanz examines the power level (based on what is used) and tries to make more cards. Zanz makes cards with some weaker and some stronger than the power level. We examine the cards and make good decks out of them. We abandon some old card for the new cards that are stronger than the old power level. This  raises the power level. Changing cards can affect/reverse this but this is the natural powercreep.
So it's because zanz doesn't want to nerf OP new cards, and would rather have to buff the weaker cards eventually (or keep them UP)?
That was neither stated nor implied. I merely stated that if Zanz does nothing but add cards then the natural powercreep would surface. Zanz can artificially reverse this powercreep. However if he does not then the natural powercreep will happen.
It looks like we've agreed.
I say:
If zanz doesn't balance cards after their release, powercreep happens.
You say (I think):
If zanz releases cards and nothing else, powercreep happens.

Maybe some misreading/understanding?
« Last Edit: November 13, 2012, 03:51:27 am by kimham8a »
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Re: Mitosis | Mitosis https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=30733.msg1015308#msg1015308
« Reply #35 on: November 13, 2012, 05:02:49 am »
It looks like we've agreed.
I say:
If zanz doesn't balance cards after their release, powercreep happens.
You say (I think):
If zanz releases cards and nothing else, powercreep happens.

Maybe some misreading/understanding?
There is a slight difference between those two sentences. However my last post was in reference to you dropping the "if".

Sidenote: Not saying something does not mean disagreement or agreement.
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