[Official] Lycanthrope | Werewolf

[BluePriest]

@Blue Priest
the 1 turn wait is part of the cost for the otherwise cheaper than normal cost for the 6|6 stats
the missing 5 damage on turn 1 and the reduced resilience on turn 1 are an attempt (unupped and upped) to balance the additional +1atk this card gets over its peers

I missed this part somehow...
The big difference compared to its counterparts like cockatrice is that this is a duel element cost. imho that alone is enough to warrent it being 1/1 stronger.

[maverixk]

if it survives the first turn it's a sturdy hitter.

I think that that is the main argument behind buffing it. It's so fragile on the first turn.

[Nemo]

I think it's fine. Heck, amazing. I love it in a rainbow.

Maybe make it start 1|3 or 1|4, and make its ability +5|+4 or +5|+3. But I don't even think it needs that.

[OldTrees]

@Blue Priest
the 1 turn wait is part of the cost for the otherwise cheaper than normal cost for the 6|6 stats
the missing 5 damage on turn 1 and the reduced resilience on turn 1 are an attempt (unupped and upped) to balance the additional +1atk this card gets over its peers

I missed this part somehow...
The big difference compared to its counterparts like cockatrice is that this is a duel element cost. imho that alone is enough to warrent it being 1/1 stronger.

creature hp seems to be valued weird
4->5 hp does not seem to change the value much but 5->6hp does
So +1atk AND 5hp->6hp is 1 more point that the duo elemental cost grants.

What did you think of my suggestion?

[BluePriest]

@Blue Priest
the 1 turn wait is part of the cost for the otherwise cheaper than normal cost for the 6|6 stats
the missing 5 damage on turn 1 and the reduced resilience on turn 1 are an attempt (unupped and upped) to balance the additional +1atk this card gets over its peers

I missed this part somehow...
The big difference compared to its counterparts like cockatrice is that this is a duel element cost. imho that alone is enough to warrent it being 1/1 stronger.

creature hp seems to be valued weird
4->5 hp does not seem to change the value much but 5->6hp does
So +1atk AND 5hp->6hp is 1 more point that the duo elemental cost grants.

What did you think of my suggestion?

hmmm.. It is a very good point that 5->6 is a big difference. Aside from Rage potion and gravity pull, there is no CC that can kill it in one swipe.

[RagingAlien]

My idea: increase it to 1|3, buff to +5|+2. final stats equal, and much more durability, and i don't think that would require a cost increase anywhere.

[Cunning_Wish]

This card need buffed and its useless now

We see Werewolf cost and get 6/6 and it is very weak in first turn
it need two elements ,In general a element creature have another element ability is more powerful like Graboid ,Fallen Druid,Aunbis(think about AEther Nymph  a mana different from time =     )

werewolf need  ,two elements only get 6/6
let's see Abyss crawler  get 6/6
steel golem  get 6/9

so lyc/werewolf need tu be buffed it should +1+1 or morewhen it used ability

[Captain Scibra]

3 duo equals 4 mono.  Theoretically.

[kimham8a]

It's also good to note that Werewolf would UP even if it costed 4 mono because of the first turn being vulnerable and weak when compared to abyss and steel golem.
It's probably UP even if it costed 3 and free skill when compared to flesh recluse.

[cometbah]

Comparison between growing creatures associated with two elements (upgraded):

Werewolf:
Dmg per turn per quantum upon becoming at least 6/*: 1.2
Dmg/turn/quantum after 10 turns: 1.8
D/T/Q after 20 turns: 1.9

Elite Graboid:
Dmg/turn/Q@6+/*: 1.5
D/T/Q@10T: 2.3
D/T/Q@20T: 2.4

Forest Spectre:
D/T/Q@6+/*: 0.8
D/T/Q@10T: 0.9
D/T/Q@20T: 0.95

Lava Destroyer:
D/T/Q@6+/*: 1.3
D/T/Q@10T: 1.1
D/T/Q@20T: 1.1

Steam Machine:
D/T/Q@5/* (modified because 9 is too far from 6): 0.4
D/T/Q@10T: 0.8
D/T/Q@20T: 0.9


Conclusion:

There is no problem with the damage output of Werewolf in relation to quanta investment.

Werewolf is, offensively, the second most powerful of all growing creatures.

E. Graboid is first, possessing high DTQ at the cost of being very fragile.

The grow-by-turn creatures have low DTQ but get the benefit of growing HP (or, in the case of Steam Machine, begin with a very high HP).

Lava Golem has a higher DTQ than other grow-by-turn creature, but at the cost of having a high initial cost and beginning with only 1 HP.

[kimham8a]

Comparison between growing creatures associated with two elements (upgraded):

Werewolf:
Dmg per turn per quantum upon becoming at least 6/*: 1.2
Dmg/turn/quantum after 10 turns: 1.8
D/T/Q after 20 turns: 1.9

Elite Graboid:
Dmg/turn/Q@6+/*: 1.5
D/T/Q@10T: 2.3
D/T/Q@20T: 2.4

Forest Spectre:
D/T/Q@6+/*: 0.8
D/T/Q@10T: 0.9
D/T/Q@20T: 0.95

Lava Golem:
D/T/Q@6+/*: 1.3
D/T/Q@10T: 1.1
D/T/Q@20T: 1.1

Steam Machine:
D/T/Q@5/* (modified because 9 is too far from 6): 0.4
D/T/Q@10T: 0.8
D/T/Q@20T: 0.9


Conclusion:

There is no problem with the damage output of Werewolf in relation to quanta investment.

Though it's fair to compare it to graboid, you cannot compare it to growth creatures because they cost more quanta at the cost of not needing to draw another lycanthrope.

[cometbah]

Though it's fair to compare it to graboid, you cannot compare it to growth creatures because they cost more quanta at the cost of not needing to draw another lycanthrope.

The cost of drawing a second Lycanthrope / Graboid is valid. That seems to be factored into balancing, however, as you can see that the DTQ of grow-by-turn creatures are significantly inferior to Lycanthrope / Graboid.

The cost of growth per turn has been normalized.