[Official] Light Nymph | Light Nymph

[laian]

Sorry, I don't fully understand what you're saying, Ekki.

You're saying that changing a card because its too situational is unelegant? 

[Ekki]

Sorry, I don't fully understand what you're saying, Ekki.

You're saying that changing a card because its too situational is unelegant?

Yep, I didn't explain it there because I felt lazy, but now I realise it's needed...
So, a situational card only needs synergy -why? because it's only useful along with another card, or in only one combo, so we suppose that combo is balanced-. Needing synergy can be solved, how? Making synergic cards! Mainly because buffing a situational card would make an OP combo while trying to balance the whole card (like lowering the cost or that).
It was mostly a side note, since the discussion was about if Luciferine is actually useful, and that's something we should discuss before we start thinking on what to do (I think we'll mostly agree that Luciferine/Light Nymph needs some sort of buff).

[DrunkDestroyer]

FYI, to comply with the guidelines of this section, the Original Post is going to need a poll, just so you can at a glance see the general opinion of the community. There should be an Edit Poll button somewhere around there, which should let you add one if nothing else.

As a player, personally I don't think they need buffing, I have two White Nymphs and use them quite often in some of my favourite PvP Decks as well as Luciferen in one of them.
Luciferen is a little narrow in scope, but with Hope, Golden Dragons and Miracles, I just think that people aren't using it as much as they should. Light Nymph on the other hand, 10 health gain every turn for the cost of 1 card (and easily fundable considering its effect) is pretty great.

by DrunkDestroyer

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Deck import code : [Select]

55n 5c0 5lj 5lj 5lj 5lk 5lk 5lk 5ls 5ls 6tu 6tu 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 77a 7dm 7gm 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7k2 7q1 80e 8pj

by DrunkDestroyer

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52q 52s 52s 52s 52s 542 542 542 542 542 542 542 5ld 5ld 5ld 5ld 5ls 5ls 71a 71c 72i 72i 72i 72i 72i 7jq 7jq 7k2 7k2 7k2 8pq

The above decks have been built in the past 2 minutes from memory only, so don't get annoyed if they don't perform amazingly - just by looking now I feel like the bottom deck is missing cards, maybe Recluse?

[Naesala]

Nymphs are suppose to be situational/not actually useful.

haha..hahaha....HAHHAHA.

Okay now seriously, Nymphs are NOT ACTUALLY USEFUL? wow. Gravity Nymph, please give him his rightful thrashing

[EvaRia]

Hmm... I'm one of the people who feel that when Luciferin was buffed, White Nymph got nerfed waaaaaaay too hard.

Pros: It now heals 10 HP on activation.

Cons: It gets -7/-8 attack. Like, what?
It gets +4/+3 ability cost. Again, what?

Although being a heal source is useful, that kind of nerfing is just ridiculous to me. I can agree with an ability cost reduction or a slight decrease in attack, but both and at that level it's kind of ridiculous.

[rosutosefi]

I don't like removing the base bioluminescence effect, but an overhaul on the additional effect might be good. Removing the light effect will further lessen the already few uses of hope, and I don't want light to become the element of very situational effects. *points at reflective shield, guardian angel and holy flash | holy light*

If you can show me a significant number of Hope decks that make use of Luciferin or Light Nymphs, I'll agree with you.  The thing is, I don't think that Hope+Luciferin can ever be better than RoL/Hope or Firefly/Hope.  Adding in Luciferins to Frogs etc. actually ends up detracting from the deck.

Life Rush + hope, hope dragons + photons, my RoL/Hope which has a nymph. Is there really a need for me to show these decks to you? I'm saying that the bonus 10 hp effect needs to be reworked, but I am totally against removing the bioluminiescence effect.

And you're saying that it's better if we only use RoL's and fireflies for hope. Just no. A card that only has a use if 1 specific card is included in the deck? I am highly against that.

[RRQJ]

Nymphs are suppose to be situational/not actually useful.

haha..hahaha....HAHHAHA.

Okay now seriously, Nymphs are NOT ACTUALLY USEFUL? wow. Gravity Nymph, please give him his rightful thrashing

He's not completely wrong.  You picked out the only nymph that generally would not be situational (only time it's useless would be against a sanc, or against a mono/duo that's already built up sufficient quanta and has lots of towers.).  And even then regular black holes cards may often times be adequate.

Edit:

Completely reworking an existing card seems pointless to me.  These two cards may not be as useful as others, but they still have uses, so reworking them would remove those uses.  You may as well just make a new card.  The only time that reworking a card would make sense is if it was essentially vanilla (e.g. graviton mercenary), although technically you'd be adding, not reworking.

I say stick with the same concept, just buff/nerf

[Naesala]

Nymphs are suppose to be situational/not actually useful.

haha..hahaha....HAHHAHA.

Okay now seriously, Nymphs are NOT ACTUALLY USEFUL? wow. Gravity Nymph, please give him his rightful thrashing

He's not completely wrong.  You picked out the only nymph that generally would not be situational (only time it's useless would be against a sanc, or against a mono/duo that's already built up sufficient quanta and has lots of towers.).  And even then regular black holes cards may often times be adequate.

I bolded the "not actually useful" part because thats what I was saying was rediculous. Why make rare cards not useful? Situational? Well yes, some of them are, though not all. Lets take a look: Red Nymph gives you a constant source of creature control as does purple and earth, which can also make huge catapult fodder or armagio shields. aether provides quintessence on a stick (great for rainbow growth decks) and has good stats. gravity nymph shuts down rainbow decks completely so long as she has enough quanta. air nymph mixed with fire mark and some extra unstable glasses can completely wipe out an opponent. Life nymph makes scorpions (especially dune scorpion) into ultra killing machines. Gold nymph is precog on a stick, nuff said. blue nymph makes more nymphes, meh okay if you have enough for a nymph deck. Light nymph is weak as explained here. Dark nymph is only really good if you can pair it up with purple for a liquid antimatter deck. Death nymph requires certain kinds of decks to work to, but is still okay creature control.

Situational? Sure, maybe half of them require certain situations, but the other half can fit into many monos, duos, and rainbows. Not useful? Dead wrong.

[RRQJ]

Nymphs are suppose to be situational/not actually useful.

haha..hahaha....HAHHAHA.

Okay now seriously, Nymphs are NOT ACTUALLY USEFUL? wow. Gravity Nymph, please give him his rightful thrashing

He's not completely wrong.  You picked out the only nymph that generally would not be situational (only time it's useless would be against a sanc, or against a mono/duo that's already built up sufficient quanta and has lots of towers.).  And even then regular black holes cards may often times be adequate.

I bolded the "not actually useful" part because thats what I was saying was rediculous. Why make rare cards not useful? Situational? Well yes, some of them are, though not all. Lets take a look: Red Nymph gives you a constant source of creature control as does purple and earth, which can also make huge catapult fodder or armagio shields. aether provides quintessence on a stick (great for rainbow growth decks) and has good stats. gravity nymph shuts down rainbow decks completely so long as she has enough quanta. air nymph mixed with fire mark and some extra unstable glasses can completely wipe out an opponent. Life nymph makes scorpions (especially dune scorpion) into ultra killing machines. Gold nymph is precog on a stick, nuff said. blue nymph makes more nymphes, meh okay if you have enough for a nymph deck. Light nymph is weak as explained here. Dark nymph is only really good if you can pair it up with purple for a liquid antimatter deck. Death nymph requires certain kinds of decks to work to, but is still okay creature control.

Situational? Sure, maybe half of them require certain situations, but the other half can fit into many monos, duos, and rainbows. Not useful? Dead wrong.

The nymphs all sound good on paper, but in practice, they are often situational enough that you can basically consider them not useful for the most part.  I really wish they can be more useful, but after trying to use several of my nymphs, the reality is that they often just don't work well enough.  Their awesome skills unfortunately don't make up for the generally high casting cost, high skill cost, low damage, and fragility.

And I think the reason for keeping them mostly situational or worse is to leave them as true rares without creating a fuss.  If they became more useful (i.e. usefulness becomes a little bit more than the current gravity nymph or so), then there might be too much complaining.

[Naesala]

Maybe in your experience, but not mine. They work pretty well.

[rosutosefi]

It would be good if the nymphs were situational BUT useful. If a card is not useful, why should it be kept in the game? For collection?

[Contrary]

I'm not saying they're completely useless. I was messing around in trainer and made a pretty fun Gnome Rider/Shrieker/Green Nymph deck just the other day. By "situational/not actually useful" I meant what everyone is saying; too practical to be really effective.

On the flipside I think Lucifern is alright. It's good as a cheap Other Heal for EMs and there are good decks with it. IE Gl1tch's Trial Deck, and I swear someday Lucifern Deja Vu is gonna be a major archetype.