[Official] Fire Spirit | Fire Spectre

[glowing ice]

buff Spectre from  cost 3   to  cost 2

[genraenera]

As is I'd consider putting unupped Spirits in an otherwise fully upped deck.

Can you explain this please?  The way I see it there is no such situation where a spirit is better than a spectre.
Possible situations:

1.  You have 3 , and will gain more  every turn.  Spectre starts at 2|3 and gains +2|+0 each turn, spirit starts at 0|2 and gains +2|+0 each turn.  Spectre does 2 more damage than spirit will do at any given turn, meaning it will do more damage over any given period of time.  Spectre wins here.

2.  You have 3 , and will not gain more next turn.  Spectre starts at 2|3 and does not gain anything for an indefinite amount of time.  Spirit starts at 0|2 and gains +2|+0 on its next turn, then does not gain anything more.  The spectre got that 2 damage one turn earlier, therefore it will have done 2 more damage than the spirit over any given period of time.  Spectre wins here.

3.  You have 2 and will gain more  every turn.  Spectre must wait for one turn to play, after that it gains +2|+0 per turn indefinitely.  Spirit can be played immediately, and gains +2|+0 each turn after that indefinitely.  Both will have done the same damage over any given period of time, assuming the same quanta conditions for each.  Spectre ties Spirit here.

4.  You have 2 and will not gain more  next turn.  Spectre cannot be played.  Spirit can be played, however it cannot grow, so it sits at 0|2 indefinitely.  Spectre ties Spirit here.

Here's a table showing each of these four situations.  1, Spectre means the first situation with the card being a Spectre, and likewise to the rest of the chart.  As you can see, the Spectre is always equal to, or better than the Spirit.

attack on turn ->	1	2	3	4	5	total damage
1, Spectre	2	4	6	8	10	30
1, Spirit	0	2	4	6	8	20
2, Spectre	2	2	2	2	2	10
2, Spirit	0	2	2	2	2	8
3, Spectre	0	2	2	2	2	8
3, Spirit	0	2	2	2	2	8
4, Spectre	0	0	0	0	0	0
4, Spirit	0	0	0	0	0	0

I'm not going to type out every situation, but these are the most critical ones, where the difference in cost supposedly makes a difference in which is better.  In situations where neither can be played, obviously they are equally bad.  In situations where  quanta abounds, spectre will do 2 more damage per turn than the spiritwill do, because it started at 2 damage/turn higher (see rows 1 and 2 of the table, they model infinite quanta).


In every situation, offensively the Spectre is either equal to or better than the Spirit.  Defensively, the Spectre is ALWAYS better than the Spirit.  No buff needed.

[geekz_always_win]

Now before you guys all flame me (no pun intended) I just want to put out my argument. Fire Spirit stinks. It is so brittle and easy to kill and it's ability doesn't increase it's health. Lots of CC can easily wipe it out. Now if it was the only spirit, it'd be decent, but then Forest Spirit came into play. And Forest Spirit really mucked things up for fire. Nearly ALL decks can afford to duo in  and  and Forest Spirit gets stronger and more resistant to CC, so it easily out shadows Fire Spirit in terms of effectiveness. The final nail in Fire Spirit's coffin is Lava Golem. Lava Golem is basically the glass cannon fire version of Forest Spirit. Why would you EVER choose Fire Spirit over Lava Golem? The simple answer is none.
It's so easy to splash earth with a mark and Immolation that Fire Spirit has become obsolete.

My suggestion: Fire gets hotter with air, right? So make Fire Spirit 3-4 quanta with the skill  Bellow (google it ) +3 damage to Fire Spirit. and keep the stats. Then Fire Spirit will be used more often. Plus, we already have an Unstable Gas/Ignite duo.

[omegareaper7]

theres already a thread for this....... but i like the idea a bit.

[Wynden]

I'd have to vote no for this.

Fire Spirit is a great card for mono fire. Its 2/3 HP means it's always under a grav shield, and it's the only "growing" creature that's mono. The +3 with would both ruin its mono abilities, and would make it similar to Steam Machine, without the extra health Steam Machine

That said, this thing would only survive for a short amount of time with Unstable gas on the field anyways.

I generally stack these with Lava Golems. Whatever fire quanta I have left is normally sucked up by this little critters, and it keeps my deck efficient.

[Demut]

As a mono growth card it actually gains a useful synergy with any duo except earth, water, life and gravity. Since it becomes the only growth card available for those duos.

[Robsta43]

calling fire spirits the only mono-growth card kinda annoys me, cause I would consider grass scorpions and puffer fish also mono-growth, however fire spirit is better in some way then every card it can be compared against.

Lava golem -> fire spirit has airborn, has a lower initial cost and is mono.  (also slightly more effective against grav shield)
Forest Spetre -> fire spirit is mono, and comes from an element that has good cc and pc.  (also much more effective against grav shield)
Forest Scorpion -> fire spirit grows faster and is airborn.
Puffer Fish -> fire spirit costs less and grows faster and is airborn.

However each of these cards also has (sometimes powerful) advantages over the fire spirit.  These advantages may make the fire spirit look weak in comparison (higher damage, higher hp, more resistant to CC), but at least there is some reason someone would use the fire spirit in thier deck. 

Personally I think the best way to buff fire spirit, is to make airborn a more useful ability. 

[Efreet]

Being cheap cost cards, I'd understand the initial weak stats. However, I rarely see these cards used in OU decks, rarely see these cards used in any proposed strategies in the community. I may be wrong about the last statement because I haven't been looking hard enough (maybe ), honestly, I wish these cards weren't shunned so. Compare them to lava golem or fire graviton, you clearly see which is better, which is more used. I propose at least buffing the initial stats of these cards at the very least, or the most (and I'm real hopeful I'll be heard out on this) up the card cost for higher stat growth per quanta used for growth.

I don't like seeing cards get underused, and honestly I'd have a huge rant about monster abilities and how luciferin is a huge excuse to spam the Elements card list with useless monsters like the Graviton Merc., Cockatrice, etc. But I won't rant about that, because I'm no position to, I'm nobody here yet. 

Anyway, if these cards at least have stat growth abilities, please buff them for the sake of making them actually useful for grinding decks and higher echelon strategies. The spirits, IMO, are underused and unappreciated because they are so frail and slow.

[whatifidogetcaught?]

If you could tell this noob what OU decks are? Then I could go for or against what you are saying.

[furballdn]

You kidding me? I don't know about fire spirit, but forest spirit is used plenty in rainbows.

[Efreet]

Lava golem >> forest spirit...just sayin' 

[eaglgenes101]

Lava golem >> forest spirit...just sayin' 

Not when explosions are competing for fire quanta.