[Official] Druidic Staff | Jade Staff

[Annele]

Spoiler for Hidden:

^Dear Attico, please keep in mind that Jade Staff deals four (4) points of damage. So, in upped versions of JS and VS:
No shield:
 VS deals 6 & heals 6 (12 hp difference between players) while JS deals 4 & heals 5 (9 hp difference between players)
 {VS is +3 hp better than JS}
DR 1 shield:
 VS deals 5 & heals 5 (10 hp difference between players) while JS deals 3 & heals 5 (8 hp difference between players)
 {VS is +2 hp better than JS}
DR 2 shield:
 VS deals 4 & heals 4 (8 hp difference between players) while JS deals 2 & heals 5 (7 hp difference between players)
 {VS is +1 hp better than JS}
DR 3 shield:
 VS deals 3 & heals 3 (6 hp difference between players) while JS deals 1 & heals 5 (6 hp difference between players)
 {VS is even with JS}
DR 4 Shield:
 VS deals 2 & heals 2 (4 hp difference between players) while JS deals 0 & heals 5 (5 hp difference between players)
 {VS is -1 hp worse than JS}
DR 5 Shield:
 VS deals 1 & heals 1 (2 hp difference between players) while JS deals 0 & heals 5 (5 hp difference between players)
 {VS is -3 hp worse than JS}
DR 6 (or more) Shield or frozen weapon or delayed weapon:
 VS deals 0 & heals 0 (0 hp difference between players) while JS deals 0 & heals 5 (5 hp difference between players)
 {VS is not just -5 hp worse than JS, here VS is just worthless while JS is still useful}

People prefer VS over JS not because JS is better, but because of the following reasons:
1) Not many people use DR shields in PvP, so it is a more useful weapon there.
2) A lot of Elements players are just little kids who become amazed by "evil" elements, like  and  , while "good" elements like  looks sissy to them and they select  cards over  cards since they look "cool" and "awesome".

Oh yes, You are right, I made a little mistake I corrected my post, thanks
But summary is the same, You need >3 DR to see JS better than VS. It is very very rare situation. What is more - we counted that 1 point of attack = 1 heal, but we both know that it is better to deal 1 attack than heal 1. So JS in compare with VS looks very very poor in most of games.
Personally I think that 6 damage + 6 healing for 2 is too powerful. And I don't need comparing with JS to say this. I think that making JS 3 attack and 5 heal for 2 and VS 6 attack + 6 heal for 3 will be fine.

VS actually does 4 damage. VD does 6.

I put mitosis up on the poll.

[ARTHANASIOS]

Spoiler for Hidden:

^Dear Attico, please keep in mind that Jade Staff deals four (4) points of damage. So, in upped versions of JS and VS:
No shield:
 VS deals 6 & heals 6 (12 hp difference between players) while JS deals 4 & heals 5 (9 hp difference between players)
 {VS is +3 hp better than JS}
DR 1 shield:
 VS deals 5 & heals 5 (10 hp difference between players) while JS deals 3 & heals 5 (8 hp difference between players)
 {VS is +2 hp better than JS}
DR 2 shield:
 VS deals 4 & heals 4 (8 hp difference between players) while JS deals 2 & heals 5 (7 hp difference between players)
 {VS is +1 hp better than JS}
DR 3 shield:
 VS deals 3 & heals 3 (6 hp difference between players) while JS deals 1 & heals 5 (6 hp difference between players)
 {VS is even with JS}
DR 4 Shield:
 VS deals 2 & heals 2 (4 hp difference between players) while JS deals 0 & heals 5 (5 hp difference between players)
 {VS is -1 hp worse than JS}
DR 5 Shield:
 VS deals 1 & heals 1 (2 hp difference between players) while JS deals 0 & heals 5 (5 hp difference between players)
 {VS is -3 hp worse than JS}
DR 6 (or more) Shield or frozen weapon or delayed weapon:
 VS deals 0 & heals 0 (0 hp difference between players) while JS deals 0 & heals 5 (5 hp difference between players)
 {VS is not just -5 hp worse than JS, here VS is just worthless while JS is still useful}

People prefer VS over JS not because JS is better, but because of the following reasons:
1) Not many people use DR shields in PvP, so it is a more useful weapon there.
2) A lot of Elements players are just little kids who become amazed by "evil" elements, like  and  , while "good" elements like  looks sissy to them and they select  cards over  cards since they look "cool" and "awesome".

Oh yes, You are right, I made a little mistake I corrected my post, thanks
But summary is the same, You need >3 DR to see JS better than VS. It is very very rare situation. What is more - we counted that 1 point of attack = 1 heal, but we both know that it is better to deal 1 attack than heal 1. So JS in compare with VS looks very very poor in most of games.
Personally I think that 6 damage + 6 healing for 2 is too powerful. And I don't need comparing with JS to say this. I think that making JS 3 attack and 5 heal for 2 and VS 6 attack + 6 heal for 3 will be fine.

VS actually does 4 damage. VD does 6.

I put mitosis up on the poll.

 LOL, thanks for the correction, dear Annele. Actually, I was meaning Vampire Dagger and not Vampire Stilleto, since I was comparing the upped versions of the two weapons. I'm so embarassed right now. 

[Xamuel]

The problem with jade staff is that it's utterly obsoleted by shard of gratitude.

Weapons and shields are supposed to be fundamentally stronger than other permanents, because you're limited to just one of each (not counting flying weapon or crusader).  The staff's healing is identical to SoG's healing (assuming you have a  mark), and it takes up the precious weapon slot, which could be used for other weapons, and not only does it take up that slot, it takes it up with a very poor hitting weapon.

To add even more insult,  has Sanctuary, which doesn't take up a weapon slot, heals for almost the same amount, and protects your quanta and your hand.  The staff is cheaper (2 vs. 4 ), but this is almost irrelevant since you can only play 1 staff at a time (sans Flying Weapon).

[ARTHANASIOS]

The problem with jade staff is that it's utterly obsoleted by shard of gratitude.

Weapons and shields are supposed to be fundamentally stronger than other permanents, because you're limited to just one of each (not counting flying weapon or crusader).  The staff's healing is identical to SoG's healing (assuming you have a  mark), and it takes up the precious weapon slot, which could be used for other weapons, and not only does it take up that slot, it takes it up with a very poor hitting weapon.

To add even more insult,  has Sanctuary, which doesn't take up a weapon slot, heals for almost the same amount, and protects your quanta and your hand.  The staff is cheaper (2 vs. 4 ), but this is almost irrelevant since you can only play 1 staff at a time (sans FW/Crusader).

 SoG heals you only for 3 if you haven't a  mark. If you have a  mark, it heals you for 5 but it doesn't deal any damage, while Drudic/Jade Staff does 2/4 damage as well as healing you for 5 regardless your mark.
 About having only one staff at a time, you can actually have more than one DS/JS with Flying/Animate Weapon or with Crusader (he gains the atk & ability of DS/JS for only 2 ).

[ddevans96]

About having only one staff at a time, you can actually have more than one DS/JS with Flying/Animate Weapon or with Crusader (he gains the atk & ability of DS/JS for only 2 ).

He said that twice.

[ARTHANASIOS]

About having only one staff at a time, you can actually have more than one DS/JS with Flying/Animate Weapon or with Crusader (he gains the atk & ability of DS/JS for only 2 ).

He said that twice.

 True, but the difference in my way of thinking and Xamuel's one is that he finds FW and Crusader combo with DS/JS unworthy of taking them into account, while I find JS/DS one of the best flying & endowed weapons in the game. He also didn't mention that SoG needs a  mark to heal you for 5 while Staves heal you for 5 AND deal damage regardless of your mark.
 I don't think Xamuel is wrong, he just has his personal way of thinking as well as I have mine personal point of view.

[bobknows]

I know that if you PA a weapon it is not immaterial once you animate it, and i was wondering if something similar could be done here.

[OldTrees]

I know that if you PA a weapon it is not immaterial once you animate it, and i was wondering if something similar could be done here.

Weapons that are inherently immaterial (Morning glory) remain immaterial when flown.
Weapons that are protected (Protect Artifact) lose the protection when flown.

[bobknows]

So we couldnt make jade staff immaterial as a permanent and normal once animated?

[Annele]

So we couldnt make jade staff immaterial as a permanent and normal once animated?

I will add to poll if there is enthusiasm for this. There is already an immaterial one, so let's just see.

Oh, and people can change their vote by clicking "remove vote" and re-voting.

[dragonsdemesne]

I voted for decrease cost.  (to 1 ) When compared to other elements, life's creatures are cheaper.  Jade staff isn't a creature, but I think the same theme should apply, and when it is compared to vampire dagger/stiletto's costs, I think this is a reasonable change.  (and I think that dark's weapons could perhaps use +1 cost in both forms, but that's another thread)

[OldTrees]

So we couldnt make jade staff immaterial as a permanent and normal once animated?

"Couldn't?"
Of course it is possible. It just is not in the current pattern. Hence the thematic justification would have to be expanded to explain the exception.