[Official] Colossal Dragon | Massive Dragon

[GG]

I think that this dragon has gotten it's buff now. If you deduct the attack it now has 10 HP per  1 cost. The unupped version is also buffed. 15 HP for 10  total.

While attack is not high, they are ridiculously hard to kill. They can just stand there while you prepare to buff them/TU them or catapult them/Chimera them. The AI5 and the FG pulled that on me a few times now. It is a finishing blow for decks with no Bas blood/freeze or rewinds, which is arguably this deck's weakness. Yes, you can also CATAPULT the Chimera at once.

No more please. Gravity has been given it's 2 attack strategies (Chimera/catapult) and the creatures to match. It seems fair enough to me.

Most dragons are either buff enough to survive most attacks or have high attack power to finish the opponent quickly in the first place.

Ruby Dragon has 2 hp? guess what? It has almost the double the attack power of massive dragon.

Besides, these dragons being buff doesn't mean anything because Stone Dragon | Basalt Dragon is also buff enough to survive most creature controls, but they have higher attack power and therefore actually viable to use.

Also, rationalizing the use of the dragon by using catapult or Chimera is nonsense. The optimal HP for catapulting is around 30, and armagio can provide that. Same goes with Chimera.

[Daytripper]

Simply not true. If you play the right deck, with a few attacks and a maxwell's demon the dragon is food. I didn't make up the cost calcalution rule by the way. I do not fully agree with it, but attack is a bit more valuable than HP yes.

I know the rest of the deck has no bearing on the dragon itself, but it IS mighty convenient it FITS in the theme of gravity. You can't deny that a card with synergy of the same element is much better than a card from another element.

The ruby dragon has ridiculously low defence. It is very risky to play it out. Defence does have some value, and the gravity dragon is the only one to take several turns before the HP is knocked UNDER it's attack, making it vulnerable.

It is good, but you need to use it. You will not hear me say the golem is better than the steam machine either. Who doesn't want 15 HP right from the start?

If I HAD gravity pillars I would be building up a blistering coup de grace with this dragon. Flying dragons for the win!
 

[Ekki]

Simply not true. If you play the right deck, with a few attacks and a maxwell's demon the dragon is food. I didn't make up the cost calcalution rule by the way. I do not fully agree with it, but attack is a bit more valuable than HP yes.

I know the rest of the deck has no bearing on the dragon itself, but it IS mighty convenient it FITS in the theme of gravity. You can't deny that a card with synergy of the same element is much better than a card from another element.

The ruby dragon has ridiculously low defence. It is very risky to play it out. Defence does have some value, and the gravity dragon is the only one to take several turns before the HP is knocked UNDER it's attack, making it vulnerable.

It is good, but you need to use it. You will not hear me say the golem is better than the steam machine either. Who doesn't want 15 HP right from the start?

If I HAD gravity pillars I would be building up a blistering coup de grace with this dragon. Flying dragons for the win!
 

Dude, use the trainer (http://www.elementsthegame.com/trainer) and try to use this dragon, or making the "right deck".

You're giving very situational cases, and you'll see that what may look good in paper doesn't look as good in a deck.

[ZephyrPhantom]

I have looked over this card thousands of times, tested  it a little, obeserved it's use in other decks, and I have to agree, it is UP.

Why? Because whatever it can do gets outdone by other creatures.  Need a Gravity Pull decoy? Use  Armagio.  Need sheer power?  Well, ever other dragon has higher attack. What about catapult? Use Basilik Blood and Auburn Nymph if you're lucky enough.

I think the addition of momentum would greatly help this card.  It already has enough health, so buffing that is unesscessary.  What this needs is an ability, and I think momention fits its theme.  (I mean really, a giant dragon would easily smash a Permafrost Shield).

[ArtCrusade]

I have looked over this card thousands of times, tested  it a little, obeserved it's use in other decks, and I have to agree, it is UP.

Why? Because whatever it can do gets outdone by other creatures.  Need a Gravity Pull decoy? Use  Armagio.  Need sheer power?  Well, ever other dragon has higher attack. What about catapult? Use Basilik Blood and Auburn Nymph if you're lucky enough.

I think the addition of momentum would greatly help this card.  It already has enough health, so buffing that is unesscessary.  What this needs is an ability, and I think momention fits its theme.  (I mean really, a giant dragon would easily smash a Permafrost Shield).

True words. Agree on every single point.

[OldTrees]

A single point of increase in attack or decrease in cost is all that Massive Dragon needs to be theoretically balanced with the other dragons.

[rowcla]

I like the idea of a creature that you can reasonably use for defense in combination with Gravity Pull, but 30 HP just isn't enough. Give him 100, then we're talking. 

in other words your more or less giving anyone who uses gravity pull on it an extra 100 health

[ZephyrPhantom]

I like the idea of a creature that you can reasonably use for defense in combination with Gravity Pull, but 30 HP just isn't enough. Give him 100, then we're talking. 

in other words your more or less giving anyone who uses gravity pull on it an extra 100 health

We already have Armagio. =P

[GG]

Personally, I don't think the card should be buffed by giving Momentum. All the dragons are meant to be vanilla creatures (as in creatures without abilities), and it should follow that rule.

But its attack power cannot be buffed satisfactorily either because of Stone Dragon.

Colossal Dragon - 10 , 7|15
Stone Dragon - 10 , 8|10

Massive Dragon - 11 , 8|30
Basalt Dragon - 12 , 10|12

If Colossal Dragon's attack becomes 8, it will be the same as stone dragon except that Colossal has more HP, therefore a lot of people are gonna shout imbalance.

Similarly, if Massive Dragon's attack power becomes 10 or more, it will have 18 more HP than Basalt Dragon.

But then again, if you compare creatures of certain elements, you can see imbalances where the creatures have the same cost/HP but different attacks, etc.

Blue Crawler - 3 , 3|3
Horned Frog - 2 , 3|3


Theoretically I can argue that Earth has an easier time accumulating lots of quanta since its cards are cheaper than Gravity's. However, I'm not sure if that reasoning's actually gonna work out.

[ZephyrPhantom]

True, but like I said, everything this dragon can do is outdone by some other entity.  I know the dragons are meant to be vanilla, but I think their role as a beatstick is more important than trying to keep Colossal Vanilla.  Phase is immaterial, doesn't that count as an ability?

[EvaRia]

I think more or less the problem is:

Colossal Dragon | Massive Dragon doesn't need a buff because it's imbalanced, it needs a buff because it's useless.

There, I said it. We all know it's true, now what can we do to make it NOT useless?

[ZephyrPhantom]

Momentum!