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Siweisun

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Re: Butterfly Effect | Butterfly Effect https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29065.msg375447#msg375447
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2011, 12:45:05 pm »
pulvy needs 1 card (itself) in order to be used.  BE needs 2 cards (itself and a low atk creature).
Why does it have to be a low atk creature? Can't you use a huge card like a Purple dragon that is hard to kill?

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Re: Butterfly Effect | Butterfly Effect https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29065.msg375450#msg375450
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2011, 01:07:14 pm »
pulvy needs 1 card (itself) in order to be used.  BE needs 2 cards (itself and a low atk creature).
Why does it have to be a low atk creature? Can't you use a huge card like a Purple dragon that is hard to kill?
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Re: Butterfly Effect | Butterfly Effect https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29065.msg375460#msg375460
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2011, 01:42:12 pm »
Playing against Dream Catcher enough times has made me respect this card...

Yes, it does take a bit of setup to use.  However, comparing it to Pulverizer isn't fair, in my opinion.  It's like comparing Arsenic to Scorpion, or Vampire Dagger to Vampire.   The weapon will often be stronger than another card that does something similar.

I believe the repeatable permanent destruction that isn't vulnerable to other PC is worth the setup and cost it takes, especially when it can be done with only a single element.
Attempting to correctly compare Arsenic to Scorpions is my specialty

Pulvy
Costs: 4 :earth, 1card (had to be drawn), the Weapon Slot and 3 :gravity|2 :gravity per PC
Effects: 5 Attack and PC skill

Butterfly effect
Costs: 5 :entropy, 1card (had to be drawn), the cost of a creature with <3 atk and 3 :entropy per PC
Effects: 1 creature with <3 atk and PC skill, Lacks summoning sickness

Initially these are hard to compare. However I have a few guidelines from observing other patterns.
1) The cost of another card (in this case the creature with <3 atk) can be crossed out if it does not reduce the value of the creature and if the creature was initially balanced.
2) Costing either the Shield or Weapon slot is ~ equivalent to +3 casting cost
3) Activation costs of 2-3 on creatures or 3 on permanents are roughly equivalent after taking the increased permanent resilience and the possibility of SoR into account. (this may change if SoR changes) These activation costs are roughly equivalent to a +1 casting cost compared to activation costs of 1 on creatures or 2 on permanents.
4) 1 Attack ~ worth 1 quanta of casting cost

Pulvy
Costs: 3 :earth|2 :earth, 1card (had to be drawn), and Activation Cost per PC
Effects: PC skill

Butterfly Effect
Costs: 6 :entropy|5 :entropy, 1card (had to be drawn), and Activation Cost per PC
Effects: PC skill, Lacks summoning sickness

Conclusion:
Butterfly Effect costs an effective 3quanta more to cast but does the PC skill does not have inherent summoning sickness unless the creature still did. Is this balanced?
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Re: Butterfly Effect | Butterfly Effect https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29065.msg375466#msg375466
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2011, 02:49:08 pm »
Note: The extra card space (BE'd creature card) should be counted because most creatures with 0-2 attack and no good active skill are a waste of a card space compared to another pillar, a high attack creature, or a more efficient form of control. BE may reduce the value of the creature in some situations because BE replaces its active skill, and so the quanta cost of the creature card may need to be taken into account.

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Re: Butterfly Effect | Butterfly Effect https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29065.msg375469#msg375469
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2011, 02:56:46 pm »
I think that if you have BE in your deck, you already know you'll be using it on the creature.
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Re: Butterfly Effect | Butterfly Effect https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29065.msg375504#msg375504
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2011, 04:55:39 pm »
pulvy needs 1 card (itself) in order to be used.  BE needs 2 cards (itself and a low atk creature).
Why does it have to be a low atk creature? Can't you use a huge card like a Purple dragon that is hard to kill?
The card says so.

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Re: Butterfly Effect | Butterfly Effect https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29065.msg396144#msg396144
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2011, 02:11:28 pm »
Pulvy can be protected in element
the BE'd creature cannot
The only creature which have a good synergy with BE is devourer/pest since it doesn't lose it's passive.
All the others are pretty much dead cards as they add lil to nothing when BE'd.

so in pvp what you see is people using fire mark for deflags, or going for steals in entropy decks, instead of using BE, cause it costs a lot more and is unreliable since your weak creature can be killed before it can use it's ability or it can just take too long since both the card and the ability are expensive

I guess a drop on the ability cost would increase greatly the use of this card
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Re: Butterfly Effect | Butterfly Effect https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29065.msg396156#msg396156
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2011, 02:52:11 pm »
Changing "less than 3" to "<3" makes the card too OP.

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Re: Butterfly Effect | Butterfly Effect https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29065.msg396162#msg396162
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2011, 03:01:30 pm »
Changing "less than 3" to "<3" makes the card too OP.
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Re: Butterfly Effect | Butterfly Effect https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29065.msg396197#msg396197
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2011, 04:52:45 pm »
"<3" Gives the card a morale advantage from increased heart.

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Re: Butterfly Effect | Butterfly Effect https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29065.msg396465#msg396465
« Reply #22 on: September 21, 2011, 12:54:04 am »
"<3" Gives the card a morale advantage from increased heart.

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Re: Butterfly Effect | Butterfly Effect https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29065.msg1035768#msg1035768
« Reply #23 on: January 26, 2013, 07:59:38 pm »
I'll bring this up because I had a discussion in chat about it yesterday.

There are 2 main problems with it: too high a cost and too situational.

For the cost part, I suggested -1 cost for both versions, though there wasn't consensus on that.

For the situational part, we (as in I and 2 other people) discussed two changes: change that <3 attack clause to either a <4 attack clause or a <5 HP clause.
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